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Undef Channel 1

Mr Tony said:
According to someone it’s KONV which normally is 28-1 but for some reason is remapping to 1-1
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It is indeed KONV, as they changed their virtual channel from 28 to 1.

Their actual physical channel remains the same (23), and they merely now appear as channel 1 instead of 28.
 
vjm said:
It is indeed KONV, as they changed their virtual channel from 28 to 1.

Their actual physical channel remains the same (23), and they merely now appear as channel 1 instead of 28.
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KAXT-CD, which serves the southern part of the San Francisco market, has been the only U.S. TV station using virtual Channel 1 up to this point, AFAIK. This was due to coverage overlap with another station that had the same virtual channel 22. I don’t see a similar situation in northern Ohio…?
 
Mediafrog+ said:
KAXT-CD, which serves the southern part of the San Francisco market, has been the only U.S. TV station using virtual Channel 1 up to this point, AFAIK. This was due to coverage overlap with another station that had the same virtual channel 22. I don’t see a similar situation in northern Ohio…?
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Doesn't look like that was the case.

Just appears like KONV wanted to be cute.
 
CTListener said:
Do TV stations do things like that just to be "cute"? Who are they trying to charm or amuse by doing that?
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I am surprised that none of these low power TV stations have labeled themselves "channel 1" before. As far as I know, you can call yourself any number, so long as no one else has the same number in the market.
 
This was happening with sister station WQDI-LD earlier this year when they were briefly back on the air.

This is just a typical case of HC2 being unprofessional and not knowing what they are doing.

The "UNDEF" label likely means undefined, so it sounds like the PSIP information is not set up correctly, or has been reset to its factory state. At least for now, KONV-LD is playing nice with my one Samsung 4K TV, where the other HC2 stations cause it to lag very badly.
 
radiofollower said:
I am surprised that none of these low power TV stations have labeled themselves "channel 1" before. As far as I know, you can call yourself any number, so long as no one else has the same number in the market.
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IIRC, Weigel tried that in Milwaukee early in the ATSC ramp-up, and the FCC said no. I thought any number between 2 and 69 could be used, except 37, and 0 and 1 were also forbidden.
 
inari said:
No they can't just pick any number. There are specific rules and procedures for the display number they use.
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WRLM's virtual is 47, even though it's suppose to be 67 -their original analog allocation. Their record on the FCC's LMS site also states that the virtual should be 67. This began all the way back in 2009 when TCT bought the station, when they decided to use 47 as their virtual, which was the RF channel of their digital broadcast at the time. My guess was that 67 was at the end of the dial and that TCT was afraid that the station would be overlooked. 47 places them in between WUAB/43 and WEAO/49.

And how was Gray able to pick virtual 22 for WOHZ-CD? Seems like they just picked an unused virtual that was close enough to WOIO's 19. Their virtual conflicts with WDLI's/WVPX's RF 22, which becomes a problem if one needs to adjust their antenna and manually program their TV from scratch by punching in the RF channels. I really wish that they picked a virtual that didn't conflict with a RF channel that's already in use. 65 would have been a better choice, which was formally used by WTCL-LD back when it was WXOX-LP.
 
For those who are unaware, the issue was fixed right after Christmas, and channel 1 should now remap back to 28 with KONV in the label.

Also, sister station WQDI-LD, which has been broadcasting dead air for close to 2 years, has been fixed as well.
 
snowdog88 said:
WRLM's virtual is 47, even though it's suppose to be 67 -their original analog allocation. Their record on the FCC's LMS site also states that the virtual should be 67. This began all the way back in 2009 when TCT bought the station, when they decided to use 47 as their virtual, which was the RF channel of their digital broadcast at the time. My guess was that 67 was at the end of the dial and that TCT was afraid that the station would be overlooked. 47 places them in between WUAB/43 and WEAO/49.

And how was Gray able to pick virtual 22 for WOHZ-CD? Seems like they just picked an unused virtual that was close enough to WOIO's 19. Their virtual conflicts with WDLI's/WVPX's RF 22, which becomes a problem if one needs to adjust their antenna and manually program their TV from scratch by punching in the RF channels. I really wish that they picked a virtual that didn't conflict with a RF channel that's already in use. 65 would have been a better choice, which was formally used by WTCL-LD back when it was WXOX-LP.
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If you are in an area where you can receive two identical virtual channels, various receivers handle them differently. My Panasonic 43" set (manufactured circa 2006) can accommodate them, but the tuner gets confused, even if you have one of them deselected, and it will often display the wrong channel description (name of diginet, etc.). The Zenith DTT-901 set-top box (one of the STBs they gave away back in 2009) handles both without a hitch. (Incidentally, the Zenith is excellent for DX, I have two of them.) I have an Insignia 43" model set that shifts the second one (more on that in a moment) to its OTA channel.

The Insignia has a neat trick to it. You cannot do an additive scan per se, but you can tune it manually to the analog channel of the station you are seeking (e.g., 28.0 for WJBF Augusta GA), and it will do a single-channel scan of sorts, and lock on the station, converting it to the PSIP channel number, and it stays that way. It is even possible to override an existing station with a PSIP channel that corresponds to the RF channel you are seeking.

You can do the same kind of "additive scan" to the Panasonic, minus the "x.0" trick I described above (or at least I've never tried the latter, I have a "trophy case" full of locked channels that I don't want to risk disrupting).
 
IM42A said:
If you are in an area where you can receive two identical virtual channels, various receivers handle them differently. My Panasonic 43" set (manufactured circa 2006) can accommodate them, but the tuner gets confused, even if you have one of them deselected, and it will often display the wrong channel description (name of diginet, etc.). The Zenith DTT-901 set-top box (one of the STBs they gave away back in 2009) handles both without a hitch. (Incidentally, the Zenith is excellent for DX, I have two of them.) I have an Insignia 43" model set that shifts the second one (more on that in a moment) to its OTA channel.

The Insignia has a neat trick to it. You cannot do an additive scan per se, but you can tune it manually to the analog channel of the station you are seeking (e.g., 28.0 for WJBF Augusta GA), and it will do a single-channel scan of sorts, and lock on the station, converting it to the PSIP channel number, and it stays that way. It is even possible to override an existing station with a PSIP channel that corresponds to the RF channel you are seeking.

You can do the same kind of "additive scan" to the Panasonic, minus the "x.0" trick I described above (or at least I've never tried the latter, I have a "trophy case" full of locked channels that I don't want to risk disrupting).
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Most modern tuners will stack or interweave such channels. WOIO and its Akron DRT are both receivable where I'm at, and this results in 19.1 (RF 10), 19.1 (RF 18), 19.2 (RF 10), 19.2 (RF 18) etc. being interweaved on my Samsung TVs. Others will show one stack of channels next to the other (19.1-.4 RF 10, then 19.1-.4 on RF 18). In both cases, the lowest RF channel is listed first.

My RCA from 2006 strangely places 19.10 (carried on WTCL-LD) in front of 19.1, probably because the TV is so old that it never expected subchannels to go that high, though is isn't the case for WOCV-CD and their 35.12.

My uncle has a Sony TV from around 2008, and upon a channel scan, it will detect WOIO on RF 10, but when it detects WOIO's Akron DRT on RF 18, it will overwrite the previously programmed WOIO that it just found on RF 10 with the one detected on RF 18, likely because both stations share the same exact PSIP data, and the TV doesn't know how to handle this situation. Since the TV will not allow you to punch in the RF channel number on the remote for a manual program, the only workaround is to watch the RF channel number currently being scanned on the screen, and when it reaches RF 18, quickly yank out the cable to avoid WOIO's DRT from being detected, and then quickly reinsert it as WKYC is up next on RF 19. Aside from this, two different stations with the same virtual channel number are not suppose to overlap with each other. In WRLM's case, I'm pretty sure that there are no overlapping stations with the virtual channel of 67, and using the now former digital RF channel of 47 as the virtual was just TCT's way of grouping the station closer with the major ones.
 
snowdog88 said:
The TV is still in working condition. Why replace it?
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So you don't have to keep doing this:

"Since the TV will not allow you to punch in the RF channel number on the remote for a manual program, the only workaround is to watch the RF channel number currently being scanned on the screen, and when it reaches RF 18, quickly yank out the cable...and then quickly reinsert it"
 
radiofan2023 said:
So you don't have to keep doing this:

"Since the TV will not allow you to punch in the RF channel number on the remote for a manual program, the only workaround is to watch the RF channel number currently being scanned on the screen, and when it reaches RF 18, quickly yank out the cable...and then quickly reinsert it"
Click to expand...
It's good exercise for eye/hand coordination.
 
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