Undercharting hits

[hipporadio]

Here in upstate new york, the local and NY city stations played the heck out of these and many more:
* Don't say you don't remember", 1972, Beverly Bremers
* Things I'd like to say". New colony 6 , '69 I think
* When I die"- Motherlode
* Eyes of a new york woman", BJ Thomas, "68
*Triangle", Janie Grant, '62

These are all great songs and did poorly on the charts.Of course, we play them all, even the stuff that never charted. We are listener driven. And I beg to differ with the guy who says "anyone that listens to what comes over the phone should have his *ss kicked" 10,000 titles and always lookin' for more to play...being the only oldies station in the market , they love us ;D

And I'll still take my Oldies station playing the hits WITH vareity vs. yours playing The Equals and Beverly Bremers and I'll beat you every time.

You probably WILL best us every time, OC... Right up until "the suits" roll in and ask you to fire your staff to make way for the "JACK-in-the-box"... That happened at Marconi-winning, ratings-rich WGLD "Gold 104.5" Indianapolis [BTW—a station that played Beverly Bremers and “Baby Come Back” and suffered from NO ratings shortage]. Ownership thought they could MAKE MORE with "Jack", and hardly experienced the "lesson-learned" before selling to Cumulus.

I am FAR from an “expert” in choosing music for ANY format—I’m one of those guys who brought in the order from the locally-owned lumber company, but I love the music that played before Mr. McLean said “It died”. IIRC, most Oldies and Classic Rock franchises share audience with News/Talk AMs... PLEASE don’t force more hours of Rush on me because of your 300-song playlist [although I admit - yours may be much longer]!

 

[warm590]

Oldies cat has missed the point completely. We play the hits, the semi hits, and and the rare sounds of the 50's and 60's. There's plenty in this market for us. Hmm sure would like to put my 10,000 titles up against your playlist. I was pointing out the stuff that didn't chart well had great airplay in this market, and that we still play that stuff.

say, oldies cat, how many times a day do YOU play "Sugar, Sugar"????

Bring it on ;D

warm590 ;D

 

[hipporadio]

say, oldies cat, how many times a day do YOU play "Sugar, Sugar"????

PLEAZZZZE—don’t play it AT ALL!!! I promise to stay-tuned thru [even] “Honey”—or more enjoyably—“Go Back” by Crabby Appleton if you’re needing a sub! BTW—I recently heard that barely-charting summer-of-‘70 tune on a “very wide” Oldies AM; but it was in a small market—so I guess that doesn’t “count” :'(

 

[hipporadio]

OH... “Warm590”—I have heard your station [if it’s WROW Albany] “behind” WKRC Cincinnati at night when I’m back home at the parent’s house. Interesting, because [IF it’s ‘ROW with a deep null at 250-degrees] I’m hearing it from your LOWEST signal direction. I haven’t copied an ID, but hear “Oldies” behind Mark Levine’s talk show in east-central Indiana!

 

[hipporadio]

OH... “Warm590”—I have heard your station [if it’s WROW Albany] “behind” WKRC Cincinnati at night when I’m back home at the parent’s house. Interesting, because [IF it’s ‘ROW with a deep null at 250-degrees] I’m hearing it from your LOWEST signal direction. I haven’t copied an ID, but hear “Oldies” behind Mark Levine’s talk show in east-central Indiana!

SORRY... Wrong frequency ['KRC is on 550] and so is some Oldies station somewhere ;D

 

[OldiesCat]

say, oldies cat, how many times a day do YOU play "Sugar, Sugar"????

PLEAZZZZE—don’t play it AT ALL!!! I promise to stay-tuned thru [even] “Honey”—or more enjoyably—“Go Back” by Crabby Appleton if you’re needing a sub! BTW—I recently heard that barely-charting summer-of-‘70 tune on a “very wide” Oldies AM; but it was in a small market—so I guess that doesn’t “count” :'(

Never, thank you. Been about 5 years, in fact.

And, for all the Crabby Appleton fans, if you love what you do in your small market, that's great- God Bless and knock yourselves out. But please don't try and convince anybody with more than two brain cells that approach would work in a Top 50 (probably Top 100) market with 25-50 choices on the radio dial (not to mention iPods, satellite, HD, Web radio, etc.).

 

[ixnay]

I think I committed a classic example of letting the genie out the bottle with this thread. [blush]

I'll stay out of the consultant debate too, if you don't mind.

But for now, I have a comment and a question...

Comment: Of Steppenwolf's hit list, MCR (the aforementioned "FM" cut; I haven't heard the 7-minute cut) takes the cake, although if I were a motorcyclist, BTBW would be a contender. But I'd like to hear "Rock Me" more often (I heard it in a Hooters in Myrtle Beach, SC in 2003).

Question, directed to DavidEduardo: When was R&R launched?

ixnay

 

[davideduardo]

Question, directed to DavidEduardo: When was R&R launched?

ixnay

1973, the same year, if I recall, as the Hamilton convention at the Broadmoor in Colorado.

 

[AZJoe]

say, oldies cat, how many times a day do YOU play "Sugar, Sugar"????

PLEAZZZZE—don’t play it AT ALL!!! I promise to stay-tuned thru [even] “Honey”—or more enjoyably—“Go Back” by Crabby Appleton if you’re needing a sub! BTW—I recently heard that barely-charting summer-of-‘70 tune on a “very wide” Oldies AM; but it was in a small market—so I guess that doesn’t “count” :'(

Its ok, they played Crabby Appleton on Sirius and the world didnt fall apart!! Like one or two oh wow songs per hour will make oldies fans switch to AC, Country, Smooth jazz or whatever!!

 

[amfmsw]

I'm a fan of the 50/60's and 60/70's style Oldies formats. I hate narrow. repititive playlists that feature five songs of the Beatles or Stones discography, and the rest "didn't test well".

But the huge playlist won't win either. You've got to strike a balance between the Rock 'n Roll history rewriters, and those who want to relive the period.

It's a classic argument of Cume vs. TSL. "Playin' The Hits" will get station cume, but it kills Time Spent Listening. Playing too big of a library, with the exception of "specialty" programs, or theme features, will hurt both cume and TSL. If you need to explain why you're going out on a limb to play a stiff, unfamiliar record, you shouldn't play it. Or simply sample the song for about 15 seconds and move on to your theme again.

 

[OldiesCat]

Its ok, they played Crabby Appleton on Sirius and the world didnt fall apart!! Like one or two oh wow songs per hour will make oldies fans switch to AC, Country, Smooth jazz or whatever!!

A consistent diet of non-relevant songs will kill any format. Crabby Appleton, for goodness sake. :-\

 

[hipporadio]

Poor Crabby Appleton... They’ve received more notice on this board in the past few days than they ever did on the Billboard chart back in 1970. C-Y-N-I-C-A-L It was mentioned as a humorous anecdote to “Sugar Sugar” [or “Honey”] ONLY—and YES—I’d rather hear it than that “sap that USED to sell” in the form of one Bobby Goldsboro. That doesn’t mean that any PD with credence to his continued pay-check ought to assign it a slot in his coveted 300-song playlist!

 

[OldiesCat]

I wouldn't include them in a 600 or 1,000 song playlist <lol>

 

[warm590]

FYI, Oldies Cat- My station isn't on 590, although it is AM. warm590 makes reference to WARM in Scranton, Pa; back in the good old days was the best station ever. It's a shell of its former self now.

I agree that with a wide playlist you don't want to go too deep and alienate the listener, but there is abslolutely positively no excuse for repitition, even if you only have 1,000 titles...if you do, shame on you.

We feature an all request show one day a week on AM drive...it takes the DJ the whole shift to get all the requests in. Some of the stuff that is requested is amazingly deep. The request show also gives us an idea what the listeners waht to hear. BTW, the request line is always open..... ;D

warm590

 

[OldiesCat]

"back in the good ole' days" is an important distinction. What was huge then has NOTHING TO DO with what could be successful today. KFRC learned that- paste the name on the frequency all you want- it has zero to do with current success.

 

[AZJoe]

Its ok, they played Crabby Appleton on Sirius and the world didnt fall apart!! Like one or two oh wow songs per hour will make oldies fans switch to AC, Country, Smooth jazz or whatever!!

A consistent diet of non-relevant songs will kill any format. Crabby Appleton, for goodness sake. :-\

And a consistent diet of the same 300 "relevant" songs has done what for the format? Oh yeah, it has killed it off!! No one has condoned playing Crabby Appleton on a daily or weekly basis, or any of those oh wow songs. Sprinkling in a couple an hour will not kill the ratings. If you think an average oldies listener who hears "Go Back" and Christie's "Yellow River" in a typical hour of oldies presentation, along with a steady diet of Brown Eyed Girl, Oh Pretty Woman, Suspicous Minds, My Girl, My Guy, You've Lost That Lovin Feeling and
whatever, is going to stop listening to oldies radio and find a new format, I have a bridge to sell to you!

 

[OldiesCat]

here we go again

And a consistent diet of the same 300 "relevant" songs has done what for the format? Oh yeah, it has killed it off!!

Large chunks of audience aging out of the 25-54 demo cell is what's killing the Oldies format. Blame small playlists, blame corporate radio, blame "the consultants" and research all you like, but ad buyers are not targeting 55+ consumers with radio, plain & simple.

:-\

 

[hipporadio]

Its ok, they played Crabby Appleton on Sirius and the world didnt fall apart...

A consistent diet of non-relevant songs will kill any format. Crabby Appleton, for goodness sake. :-\

And a consistent diet of the same 300 "relevant" songs has done what for the format? Oh yeah, it has killed it off... If you think an average oldies listener who hears "Go Back" and Christie's "Yellow River" in a typical hour of oldies presentation... is going to stop listening to oldies radio and find a new format, I have a bridge to sell to you!

Careful what you wish for AZ... At the rate these PDs [with an obvious penchant for the A.D.D-afflicted] are burning out formats (and getting blown out); they may just buy that bridge—to live off the tolls

I find two things “interesting” when looking at consumer responses to Oldies or Classic Hits radio... (1)—I have NEVER heard a “regular Joe-listener” complain about TOO MUCH variety via a radio station... It always seems to be the opposite—and generally serves as a reason to cease their attention. (2)—When said consumer “kicks radio to the curb” in favor of yet another recurring monthly charge on his credit card [from XM]—the most popular rationale is that the pay service offers increased program diversity and variety within a specific genre. YES—that one trumps the “commercial-free” card nearly every time!

I managed to find some “Karma” with my morning cup of coffee... This morning at 6:20, the small-market Oldies AM that earlier served as my inspiration for the Crabby Appleton analogy, played Christie’s “Yellow River” in-between “River Deep—Mountain High” [Ike & Tina Turner] and “(I’ve Been) Searchin’ So Long” [Chicago]. GOOD POINT, AZ—I didn’t find myself turning off that station because they spiked the mix with an "oh wow" from some Rhino 70s CD! Instead, I hung around to enjoy Aretha’s “Spanish Harlem”, “HELP!”, “Who’ll Stop the Rain” by C.C.R., “Mountain of Love” [Johnny Rivers], and even suffered thru a spot break to later hear Free’s “All Right Now”... In all—about a half-hour of good music, and probably the only half-hour of terrestrial “music radio” I will listen to today.

 

[93Q]

I find it so interesting that most all oldies PDs feel that they need to program their stations now different from the day the songs were currents. Example, in 1970, Zeppelin, Rock n Roll, Diana Ross, Ain't no mountain high enough, Guess Who, American Woman, Chicago, 25 or 6 to 4, Jackson 5, ABC, Pacific Gas and Electric, Are you Ready, AND many others were played on the same station! But now...."No...Zeppelin is Classic Rock, we can't play it". I think it is nonsense, and a big factor in the failure of the format. Another thing, why have the air talent sounding like they are on an AC station? :-\

 

[skippertthomas]

Really great observations.. Agencies don't like 55+ (though there is a market for every age, thought some are much larger than others)...PD's stick to their true hardcore consulted and researched 300 and wonder why loyalty and TSL dives off the 'big kids' diving board....Then you have die hards that want to play a majority of Oldies and Classic Hits (as I call next-gen oldies) that are mid charters and local/regional hits and wonder why shares are microscopic..And the every boring soft ac jock approach to playing the hits that were big when we popped our zits.... Thinking if we show any energy or brightness to our delivery, then we are acting too childish... At least I've got Kent at night in my market.. Playing the 300 from their target, and throwing in the midcharters and special closet classics and 'cheese' to keep it fresh, without losing the core... AND HE KEEPS it UP AND BRIGHT... After six plus months, I hear ongoing tweeking and adjustments that keep CTF (Classic Top Forty) Fresh.. And this 30 year vet of media/radio (in every capacity) really enjoy's turning on the local affiliate and diggin' the approach.. It must be working in our market, they have great numbers the last oldies outlet was loosing... I worked at that one for awhile and we never seemed to tweek anything... Went from major player to secondary station... They flipped to hot country and the number two AC went straight to oldies by the next Monday...They held to the style of the former station for about a month and then started evolving into the next generation of oldies and now have made the complete change to Superhits (Classic T-40)...The only thing I think they need is better delivery as their jocks seem to not know the material, brief history and folklore (except for their strong morning guy and weekend great who brought oldies to the market years ago)...The station has great processing and a good 50k signal..