unnecissary translators

[markbohach]

An FSK ID'er periodically frequency shift keys the translator ID in Morse. Can be heard on a radio with an AM detector, or, as a practical matter, on many cheap portables which use AM-like FM decoders.

Just to add... The chip has an internal clock and does the ID once per hour (per rule).

Interesting comment about how you hear it. That's something I'll have to try.

My PTEK transmitters have the FSK ID keyers that shift the carrier about 1khz when sending out the Morse Code ID. I can't hear it on most radios. The FCC requires FSK ID to be done hourly while spoken ID's only need to be done a few times per day.

 

[Kmagrill]

I thought the original use for translators were to fill in portions of a main channel's predicted coverage area that due to terrain obstructions had inadequate signal? When I see translators carrying stations that would have never been available in a particular area this appears to be outright abuse if you ask me. What's ever worse is the FCC allows if without much thought

For what translators were "originally" used for I cannot say. They've been authorized for decades, and for much of that time there have been two types of translators. They are fill-in and non-fill-in. Fill ins are exactly for the purpose of serving locations that are within the primary contour of the host station and they can operate with facilities that are quite a bit more potent than non-fill-in translators.

Non-fill-ins are often far more limited in coverage and are used for extending a signal into an area where it otherwise would not reach. They are often used to bring rimshots into bigger cities or are used to bring bigger city signals into smaller, under-served towns. Non-fill-in translators cannot be owned by nor financially supported by the host station, but can air 30 seconds of spots per hour to pay for the operations. Since non-fill-in translators are unsupported by the primary, the FCC presumes that they are put on the air by individuals or companies that are using them to make formats available that might not otherwise be received, thus serving the public interest.

 

[ftballfan]

WIAA (88.7 Interlochen, MI) just signed on a translator on 94.7 in Traverse City, MI. The main 88.7 signal pumps out 100kW from a high hill 30 miles south of TC and there are no significantly taller hills between there and TC. 88.7 is so good in TC that their RDS showed up on 88.9 on Friday when I was up there.

WWKR (94.1 Hart, MI) has a translator on 92.7 in Ludington, MI. Their main signal is 5kW but comes from a high tower (200m HAAT) and there are no major terrain obstacles between their tower and Ludington. This translator could be better used as a translator for sister AM station WKLA (1450 Ludington, MI), which doesn't make it out as far as the translator, which can make it as far away as Manistee and Wellston.

On the other hand, WOLW (91.1 Cadillac, MI) really could use a translator in Traverse City. Their 50kW signal is directional away from TC (for example, it is very strong in Hart, 55 miles from their tower, yet very weak in TC (they use the same tower as WIAA)). They have a 100kW sister station on 90.5 in Gaylord (WPHN), but it's 75 miles away and WNMC (90.7 Traverse City) and WPFF (90.5 Sturgeon Bay, WI) combine to take it out.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Many "unnecessary translators" have been converted into things like HD-2 and AM translators. Sometimes stations end up with translators they had from the past because their coverage didn't originally cover that area, but eventually they were able to get in closer or a big enough stick to blow past the little translator. If stations were smart, they kept the translator because it's effectively real estate, and when it's gone, it's gone. Now enters in HD2 and AM to FM translator options....

Sometimes people also use a station already in the market in their quest to move a translator in. The FCC rules on translator moves are nothing short of stupid. Using a blow-torch station as your "primary" is a well-used trick to get those pesky circles to touch, facilitating a move. Then, you just change who your are repeating and downgrade them to a white-space translator repeating who you want from the new site you've just established. Does this really make sense? Nope. But then again, what generally does coming from Washington, D.C.?

 

[bmcglynn]

Sometimes people also use a station already in the market in their quest to move a translator in. The FCC rules on translator moves are nothing short of stupid. Using a blow-torch station as your "primary" is a well-used trick to get those pesky circles to touch, facilitating a move. Then, you just change who your are repeating and downgrade them to a white-space translator repeating who you want from the new site you've just established. Does this really make sense? Nope. But then again, what generally does coming from Washington, D.C.?

With the progress of synchronous boosters using digital exciters, digital processing, and a GPS - what I perceive as the the original purpose of translators seems to be obsolete.

 

[semoochie]

I've said this before but apparently not here: Translators should only be used to fill in coverage or extend coverage to otherwise unserved areas, for" legitimate" educational institutions(such as NPR)or certain unique programming, that could be considered educational in nature, such as Classical or Jazz and that's about it. Religious programming should be entirely "commercial"!

 

[bmcglynn]

I've said this before but apparently not here: Translators should only be used to fill in coverage or extend coverage to otherwise unserved areas, for" legitimate" educational institutions(such as NPR)or certain unique programming, that could be considered educational in nature, such as Classical or Jazz and that's about it. Religious programming should be entirely "commercial"!

This is where I believe a synchronous booster makes better use of the spectrum. A radio station is licensed to serve a 60, 57, or 54 dBu contour. Within this contour, a synchronous booster can be placed on the same frequency as the original station not to exceed the contour. The sole purpose of the booster being to fill-in coverage in the licensed area of the original radio station. In the case of building penetration or terrain issues, a booster can provide that extra bump in field intensity without extending past the licensed contour.

Years ago when the rules were written, boosters were impractical from a technical perspective. Now, that is far less the case.

I believe that serving an area outside of the original contour should require an additional license and all of the obligations around it.

 

[Chuck]

I've said this before but apparently not here: Translators should only be used to fill in coverage or extend coverage to otherwise unserved areas, for" legitimate" educational institutions(such as NPR)or certain unique programming, that could be considered educational in nature, such as Classical or Jazz and that's about it. Religious programming should be entirely "commercial"!

Maybe, but that isn't the way the rules read. I'll be the first to say that I think the FCC's translator rules are a mess. They have been further complicated by allowing AM and HD signals to be rebroadcast on them. Compared to other Washington bureaus like the IRS, the FCC looks pretty good, even if the rules frequently seem to contradict themselves. I guess that is what you get from Washington. Not much new there...

I'd almost agree with you that translators should all be fill-ins, but that would leave a lot of people in remote areas with little or no radio service. Where would you draw the line? I also believe their use should not be restricted to just NCE stations as you suggest. They can be a great help to small community oriented commercial stations as well. That is not totally bad. And like them or not, religious stations qualify as NCE's. Since the FCC policy is to remain neutral on programming on any station (unless it is obscene), they would have a hard time limiting translators to certain types of programming.

 

[bossbill]

Synchronous boosters are easier said than done. They work great with some terrains, otherwise you end up with the two signals fighting.

 

[TomT]

Exactly.

Remember the FM chart to calculate field strength at a distance is called a "50/50" chart for a reason.

 

[boiseengineer]

Synchronous boosters are easier said than done. They work great with some terrains, otherwise you end up with the two signals fighting.

More like a cat fight.
Some have gone to not being syncronized.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Bill is right. There is a "mush zone" somewhere. Hopefully that's where people aren't living. That's the real trick. Even when stuff is working right, there's still that mush zone somewhere. Simulcast does have it's issues when transmitting wideband audio.

 

[semoochie]

I'm aware that the rules aren't written that way. I used the word "should". If you live beyond Z100's protected contour and you want to hear the station, it's up to you to either move into the area or listen online. If you live out in the middle of nowhere, in Wyoming, it's not unreasonable to want access to educational programming, provided by a regional source. Granted, this isn't as importand as it once was but for those without an internet connection, it's still a valuable service. In rated markets, local stations should have priority. There's no reason for national networks, made up of thousands of translators, bogging up the system!

 

[Chuck]

There's no reason for national networks, made up of thousands of translators, bogging up the system!

I think we agree on that point!

 

[bossbill]

Given that every square inch of the continental U.S. is now covered with, or can be covered with, commercial and non-commercial full power and LPFM signals, is it necessary to allow any "non fill-in" translators anymore? Isn't it time to sunset every non fill-in?

 

[TomT]

Yes. Better use would be as AM translators, with the hope that many daytimers would actually shut down at sunset & rely on the translator.