URBAN AC/OR SMOOTH JAZZ (AS RAPKING STATED)

[Retro]

Re: get a clue

It soundS like some of you guys have no clue about how business
(radio or any other...) actually works. It is so much more productive to whine about
things that don't go your own way...

Ok, let me ask you this, would WSJZ even have changed formats if it hadn't been for Greater Media signing Don Imus? The short answer is no.

 

[ciao99]

Re: Principle Broadcasting, etc.

Yes, The late Otto Miller did, indeed, once work for our parent company,
MRBI. When Principle took over WJDA and WESX, the first thing they did
was to poach a number of our customers. We took a major economic hit, but
have since recovered nicely, thank you. Some of the tactics that were used were,
at best, unethical, at worst illegal. I have my eye on them. If they pull this crap again,
I will have their head on a plate - that's a promise...

Smooth Jazz as a format - it has been done here - it didn't work. No legitimate
station wants to do something that has been proven not to work, despite what a
handful of people claim they would personally like to see, or would support.

Urban AC - if you intend for this to be an advertiser supported format - who do you
realistically expect those advertisers to be? Will they support the intended audience?
That is the only question to be asked here. If you personally think there is money to be
made, put up your own cash - buy a station or buy some time and prove it.
The same holds true for any other format. Talk is cheap...

Pirates, of any kind, deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
They are a disgrace to every law-abiding American citizen. It is really easy to "serve"
a small "community", when you bear none of the expenses or responsibilities that a
legitimate station has to shoulder. Those who advocate illegal activities of any kind,
are irresponsible, and deserve whatever punishment they get...

Of course there's money to be made in Urban AC, Urban, and Jazz formats. Just because a station makes money with a format that isn't going to be top biller in Boston doesn't mean it won't make money. Stop looking at black and white. Money is green.

And recognize that the black population in Boston is larger than that of Richmond Virginia and Jackson Mississippi. Those markets have no problem finding advertisers wanting to reach their black population. I find it silly to suggest that the large black community of Boston should be ignored simply because their percentage is smaller. And I dare say Boston's black community has more professionals with money to spend.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

again, get a clue...

Oh - so you must be on the Board of Greater Media and
know all of their thought processes. Good for you! :

Do I personally shop at Walmart? No - but millions of people obviously do so.
They buy goods, that they otherwise may not be able to afford, to provide for
their families. Sounds like a "family killer" to me!

 

[MarcB]

I can not predict the future here, but I think if they didn't change formats in 96 they may have gotten another 10-12 years out of the Smooth Jazz format. 106.1 in Philly was blown out by CC in August 2006 only to be brought back in 2007 on a new frequency by none other than GM, however they are not doing as well as when they were on 106.1 FM. Now in 2008 the format seems to be dying or at least in intensive care. I mean look. We lost WQCD in NYC and WJZW in Washington. Plus countless others.

 

[board_manager]

Some posts have been relocated to Take It Outside

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,97468.msg754857.html#msg754857

 

[JustinT]

I can not predict the future here, but I think if they didn't change formats in 96 they may have gotten another 10-12 years out of the Smooth Jazz format. 106.1 in Philly was blown out by CC in August 2006 only to be brought back in 2007 on a new frequency by none other than GM, however they are not doing as well as when they were on 106.1 FM. Now in 2008 the format seems to be dying or at least in intensive care. I mean look. We lost WQCD in NYC and WJZW in Washington. Plus countless others.

It was actually August 1999 that WSJZ became WTKK, and the jazz would live on for several weeks outside of mornings until talk hosts were signed to slots. My guess is that if WEEI had resigned Don Imus, then Greater Media would have two stations to mess around with. Perhaps some of the rumored switches that Greater Media was said to be preparing for WBOS, including rhythmic oldies (a la the very successful Jammin' Gold 95.7/Philly and 105.1 The Groove/Detroit), adult hits, and sports talk would have taken place if they didn't need to give up WBOS' only achievement over the years - a pretty high power ratio.

While I am a fan of the genre, I'm not overly surprised that smooth jazz hasn't returned to Boston. For years, 102.5 WCRB was THE station of choice for waiting rooms and those who desired quiet, relaxing music. That territory is owned by SJ stations around the country, but that wouldn't be the case in Boston.

It's urban AC, a format whose artists can't be heard anywhere on the Boston dial, that is really missing from the airwaves. While GM may have thought that they could make more money with talk than smooth jazz, urban AC was making money in Boston on the limited 97.7 stick until the station's ownership, which perhaps if they weren't too busy losing $200+ million in LA or spinning Jeff Majors hourly they would have thought twice about, failed to view Boston as anything more than a quick $30 million check.

 

[12 In a Row]

Re: get a clue

It soundS like some of you guys have no clue about how business
(radio or any other...) actually works. It is so much more productive to whine about
things that don't go your own way...

Ok, let me ask you this, would WSJZ even have changed formats if it hadn't been for Greater Media signing Don Imus? The short answer is no.

At the time, talk radio-very hot, smooth jazz, not so hot, make that luke warm at best.
Also, no talk radio on FM. Logic tells me the short answer would be "yes."

 

[MarcB]

It was actually August 1999 that WSJZ became WTKK, and the jazz would live on for several weeks outside of mornings until talk hosts were signed to slots.

Yeah. I realized later that I got my dates mixed up. 1996 (or 1997) I think was the year they moved from 99.5 FM to 96.9 FM.

 

[Retro]

Re: get a clue

It soundS like some of you guys have no clue about how business
(radio or any other...) actually works. It is so much more productive to whine about
things that don't go your own way...

Ok, let me ask you this, would WSJZ even have changed formats if it hadn't been for Greater Media signing Don Imus? The short answer is no.

At the time, talk radio-very hot, smooth jazz, not so hot, make that luke warm at best.
Also, no talk radio on FM. Logic tells me the short answer would be "yes."

Articles showed that WTKK was not making more for the first few years.

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

thank you all for your input.
I didn't say anything that I wanted to get a Pirate Radio Station.
Anyways, thank you all

 

[mistermicrophone]

Did you really use the terms "programming philosophy" and "as rapking stated" in the same post??

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

yes I used both.
But my "programming philosophy" is my ideas
Rapking had simular thoughts that I had as well

 

[raccoonradio]

There are format holes in Boston but some won't get filled. It would be a good opportunity to lure
people to satellite radio or HD, which does have these formats:
--rap including extreme language
--smooth jazz
--easy listening "elevator music" (ex.--Escape on XM)
--classic country
--prog talk/Air America

Want that format that isn't on in Boston? If the radio bigwigs deem it not worth a try, then
"pay radio" may be your only choice.

 

[Keith321]

--rap including extreme language
--smooth jazz
--easy listening "elevator music" (ex.--Escape on XM)
--classic country
--prog talk/Air America

All of which are available on HD Radio except Progressive Talk. (Does Jamn's HD signal include the "dirty lyrics"?)

Progressive Talk (or for that matter ANOTHER alternative to WRKO would be a good addition to the Boston radio dial.

890AM, 1060AM, 1090AM, 1200AM, 1330AM...and most importantly 1510AM are all ripe for the pickin'.....to do something a little more mass appeal.

 

[chitchatjf]

technically between 10pm and 6am I think JMN COULD air the nasty stuff

I know I would

 

[uncleDJ]

As one who has worked the eastern MA landscape (WMLN & WBET/WCAV in the 70s, WMVY-FM PD in the early 80s) I can tell you just how frustrating it has been over the years to get much established for a format that sticks with its audience. We had success with MVY going Album Radio thanks to the help of Clark Shmidt and it is still there doing it today. And as a radio junkie now perched in eastern CT away from the delirious mess of Boston radio, I sit here wondering how many DON'T listen to the radio at all!

Smooth Jazz / Urban AC needs a place on the dial, without question. The fact that these displaced listeners have gone elsewhere, if only to their little buddy the IPod, should be speaking volumes to the top brass who know deep down in their empty souls that they have driven off listeners with the 'bottom line' excuse. Both listener types are affluent these days, that means money! Guess who's getting that money these days...where is this music still alive and millions are tuning in? THE INTERNET.

The last straw was the flip of WCRB, a station my parents loved and could easily get in their Fall River area home. No more! They occasionally listen to RI classical or the conservative talk shows, but more frequently, their BOSE systemS (yes they have 2) play CDs of their choosing. Gee, their disposable income is going WHERE???

For as much as the brick and mortar crowd have tried to stop the spread of the smaller broadcast folk with the foul-up of internet radio and low power FM, and as much as they complain about 'pirates', one thing should be abundantly clear: there are nowhere near the number of people listening to radio anymore because it's all homogenized, erratic, truncated and unbending. Oh, and for what it's worth, WEIB-FM Northampton MA is still SMOOTH JAZZ and urban soft AC and last I saw still holding its own; it's a great station and I think it's available on line. it's also minority-owned and local. Hmmm...Cutting Edge Broadcasting is doing it, and has for years now...how come Boston/SE MA can't?

 

[DanStrassberg]

All of which are available on HD Radio except Progressive Talk. (Does Jamn's HD signal include the "dirty lyrics"?)

Progressive Talk (or for that matter ANOTHER alternative to WRKO would be a good addition to the Boston radio dial.

890AM, 1060AM, 1090AM, 1200AM, 1330AM...and most importantly 1510AM are all ripe for the pickin'.....to do something a little more mass appeal.

What makes you think that 1060 and 1330 are available? I think that's wishful thinking on your part. As for 1510, it's under new ownership and the (highly opportunistic) owner appears to want to make it work HIS way and just may be able to pull it off. He has set quite a challenge for himself because of the station's gargantuan fixed operating expenses (transmitter-site lease). It would be most surprising if he were willing to sell at this time. Presumably, he knew what he was getting into when he made the buy (and then, a day after announcing a flip to Spanish, issued a new statement that said, in effect, "Never mind"). He's got to feel that he needs more time to at least get into a positive-cash-flow situation.

IIRC, you've been peddling the line about these stations being available for Progressive talk for about a year. Exactly what have you got to show for your (meager) efforts? If you're so sure that you can acquire one of these signals, why haven't you arranged financing and made an offer? I suspect it's because you aren't really interested in doing anything besides talking.

 

[Keith321]

IIRC, you've been peddling the line about these stations being available for Progressive talk for about a year. Exactly what have you got to show for your (meager) efforts? If you're so sure that you can acquire one of these signals, why haven't you arranged financing and made an offer? I suspect it's because you aren't really interested in doing anything besides talking.

I think that's wishful thinking on your part.

It most definitely IS wishful th inking on my part.

However, I speak as a listener, not a financier.

I do not have an interest in (nor could afford to) purchase a station.

I am only speaking aloud my frustration to see these signals wasted.

What makes you think that 1060 and 1330 are available?

Everything is available at the right price. ;-)

Moreover, these owners seem not to care anymore about the programming on their stations....it's whatever pays the bills.

I would guess that these owners would put on Progressivbe Talk (or any other format) as long as they believe it can make them money.


BTW...how about you? Have you done anything to bring alternative formats to Boston?

 

[Retro]

Guess its been proven that neither conservative or liberal radio would work in Boston. Yes, some would argue that 'RKO is conservative, however I think that they are more MOR instead.

 

[DanStrassberg]

It most definitely IS wishful th inking on my part.

What makes you think that 1060 and 1330 are available?

Moreover, these owners seem not to care anymore about the programming on their stations....it's whatever pays the bills.

I would guess that these owners would put on Progressivbe Talk (or any other format) as long as they believe it can make them money.

You're kinda confused. These stations do brokered time. As a percentage of revenues, brokered-time stations take more money to the bottom line than conventionally programmed stations. They can do this because the costs are so much lower; on brokered-time stations, the independent program producers bear most of the costs of operating the stations. You may not like what you hear on brokered-time stations. That's fine; you are not part of the target market for the various programs. The program producers must believe that they are getting their money's worth or they wouldn't keep on buying the time. Bear in mind that it isn't what you like or what you BELIEVE would make money on a station that necessarily makes money. Even on conventionally programmed station, you find that a lot of the staff (both on-air and behind-the-scenes) don't like what the station broadcasts.

I am a life-long liberal Democrat but I do not believe that, with the exception of a few markets, Progressive talk has demonstrated an ability to generate the kind of profits that other formats generate. Progressive-talk advocates have a zillion excuses, and some of them are actually valid. I sincerely believe that there is a genuine conspiracy by the radical (and not-so-radical) right to use hate-mail and threats of boycotts to intimidate advertisers and prospective advertisers on Progressive talk. I also believe that the fact that Air America did such a truly miraculous job of implanting its brand in the public consciousness was largely the result of very clever work by the righties who knew that the outfit was mismanaged from the git-go and would go down in flames if given half a chance. It was a brilliant strategy to kill Progressive talk: Make sure that Air America is 1) indelibly identified with Progressive talk and 2) shoots itself in the foot (or someplace higher and much more painful) at every conceivable opportunity. (#2 didn't take much effort.) This story is a sad commentary on a lot that's wrong with America today but the strategy could not have worked better for the righties. They are well aware that the management of most atations has no commitment to Progressive talk and therefore thinks of electing to run a Progressive talk format as purely a business consideration. There is NO compelling reason for any station to inflict Progressive talk on itself but there is LOTS of evidence that the odds of the format working on any given station are unacceptably low.

Despite its hiring of such irresponsible voices as Mike Malloy and Randi Rhodes, Nova-M has hit upon what is probably the only viable business model for Progressive talk--a combination of public-radio-style listener support with the sale of commercial time. The funding from listeners makes up--at least in part--for the paucity of advertisers. If done properly, the low spot loads can make the programming more attractive to listeners. And the demonstration of listener financial commitment has got to impress some potential advertisers who would otherwise be sitting on the fence or shying away from supporting the format.

But the choice of such radical hosts as Malloy and Rhodes has not only turned off much of the potential audience, it has had an even greater impact on potential backers. On the Nova M Web site you can listen to several streams in which Malloy rails at a group of wealthy Liberal Democrats (a group of people who probably have a combined net worth north of $1 billion) who refused to put up one cent to back the company. Don't get me wrong; I am not especially enamored of Ed Schultz (who is aired by Jones networks); he isn't close to Liberal enough for me. My two favorite Progressive hosts are Thom Hartmann and Rachel Maddow. Malloy and Rhodes are WAY too radical for my taste and Randi's intemperate remarks, which led to her recent departure from Air America, exemplify how Progressive talk has the potential to throw the presidential election to McCain. If you think my position on Rhodes' remarks indicates that I support Sen. Clinton, you are wrong. She is not and never has been my choice. I contributed first to Gov Richardson and, after he dropped out, to Sen Obama. I have said however, that if Sen Clinton is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for her, though I won't be able to muster much enthusiasm.