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WABC ratings collapse
- Thread starter Mily
- Start date
The one thing about using texts or facebook is that it does get the audience involved. Rather than calling long distance to a station in Montreal, I can simply send a comment on facebook and it will get read within minutes without call screeners deciding whether I have something "airworthy". It's a good thing for quick topics like "what's your favourite tv dad of all time" or something along those lines. CJAD in Montreal makes good use of it, and the stations are already on their facebook pages and twitter feeds too, some have people who's job is to monitor the content on the pages and go on air with what the listeners are saying on social media. It does fill time between calls.
Do you really believe every sales pitch you see?
They don't have boots on the ground in thousands of places. They're playing the same game that GoogleAds does.
But go ahead and keep your head in the sand and stay away from Facebook because you're afraid you're losing money. The pennies Facebook makes doesn't come close to the engagement experience you have with your listeners at a place they're comfortable with. Come on. Rule #1: Go to the place where your listeners are and engage with them. They're not hanging out at your website, they're going to Facebook. And who do they see there? The folks at their favorite radio station! And they "like" you! What's the down side? I don't get it.
That's great, but that's not why we use Facebook. Not everything is about selling ads. The air talent isn't selling ads. They're trying to engage with the listeners, so they'll have the radio on while they're at Facebook, and maybe they have a PPM meter. Radio fundamentals.
No reason not to have this engagement directly on the radio stations website. If the users are coming to your website it is Ad impressions else you are giving that revenue to Facebook. The features can simply be added to a radio stations website and they can even go so far as adding Facebook commenting directly to the radio stations website.
Considering the last two social media studies as it relates to radio, I suspect the trend will slowly move in the direction I described. Social media will still be a component however with more engagement and traffic for Ads at the radio stations website.
The point is they're trying. Conversely, local radio depends on national ads. Pull Geico away from WABC and see if they don't feel the impact. It's never all-or-nothing -- every dollar matters.
I don't know where to begin. Radio fundamentals are things like, don't tell the audience,"We'll be right back," because what you're really saying is, "We're going away ... here come the commercials," and don't give the time in the evening because you'll remind the listeners that they're missing their favorite prime time TV show or that it's time to go to bed.
Radio fundamentals involve bringing people TO your station, not the other way around. I have no problem with stations advertising on Facebook or Twitter, nor would I ever suggest never mentioning social media on the air, but today's media is obsessed with social media because they feel threatened by it, in my view. They're not focused on turning out a good air product and instead trying too hard to make the air product part of something else.
And you don't really believe the air talent doesn't sell ads, do you? Every live spot read and every endorsement says to other advertisers, "Maybe this guy can move my product."
If you really think radio is only something only to be listened to in the background (and you may have a point in today's multi-tasking environment) then it's probably all over for radio. There's always been background use but I think what's really kept radio going over the years is the core audience who listens critically and gets involved emotionally with the station. This thread is about WABC -- talk radio -- so I think that still applies.
F
FredLeonard
Guest
They've also learned that "right back" means five minutes of commercials. The industry has abused the audience's patience.
Not yet, but the day is getting close. Most radio is background radio. An exception is stations like WABC, but they decided long ago to serve only a narrow segment of the audience - angry, old White guys. There's also sports talk and public radio news and information. No foreground radio for anybody else.
Not many people listening in the evening, and they certainly are not listening at home where they could switch to TV. Besides, this is the 21st Century. Tivo remembers when their favorite show is on. No one has to be a slave to TV schedules any more.
I don't pretend that my household is typical, normal, average. BUT... the TV is on very little. Very little at night. But because radio has "punted" on night time programming.... the RADIO is on very little.
So what percentage of homes are neither listening or viewing at night..... 1%? 5% 25%?
Sounds a little greedy to me. Take a look at the traffic statistics. More people use Facebook than use all of the radio station web sites put together. Do you want to go where your listeners are, or wait for them to come to you? Do you want to GO to your customers, or wait for them to come to you. The answer is obvious.
As for adding Facebook commenting and "likes" to a website, that's a pretty common feature. Still, you have a better chance of interacting with listeners at the main Facebook site.
It's not a one-or-the-other thing. It's engagement. It works both ways. You might attract new listeners through Facebook friends. It sounds like you don't use it yourself.
There's a difference between selling ads as a salesman to an advertiser and reading ad copy as part of your job. Big difference.
Hello David,
I have the utmost respect for your facts and industry data. My data is only anecdotal, but I hope that it has some value to you.
Since 1992, I have had 3 friends host shows on KABC. I have never lived in LA, but travel there often for business. I lived in Arizona & Nevada for 10 years. During that span I listened to KFI every day because I could not tune in KABC.
I still have one friend at KABC. I listen to the podcast of his show because it is my only option. I "assume" that I am not the only person in the western states that does not count for ratings that listens to KFI because it is my main choice and tune it in when I visit LA 3-4 times each year, in addition to listening out of state.
I realize that this data means nothing to sales, but over the 22 year span, I have made purchases from many of the KFI advertisers.
Sincerely,
mohawk82
You make good points. There is scattered usage of big signals well outside the individual stations' metros.
But radio is bought by advertisers based on audience delivery in the local metro. It's a classic "X" number of listeners at "X dollars" per thousand. Unmeasured listeners are a bonus, and likely KFI mentions that as an added benefit in their pitch when appropriate.
Not only KFI, but many of the big LA FMs get large ratings in the separate Riverside / San Bernardino market. But none of them can add that to their pricing, and none can sell much of anything locally in the Inland Empire. Even though some of those LA stations get an extra 15% to 20% more listeners from the IE, they can't sell it... other than as a bonus or a tie breaker.
On the other hand, I'll bet that those local, non-agency accounts do notice that the reach is better and they might even prefer a big coverage station over a little one. They know that the LA resident "sold" while driving to Vegas is still sold... and that's something other AMs can't offer. Of course, it takes a really good seller to make that an added value point.
Facebook, Google, Pandora and Groupon may not have thousands of sales reps, but they do have hundreds. And, because the advertising space is so cheap, they'll get a lot of business from Sal's 52nd St. Deli who can't afford mass media.
Just for fun, I pulled up my Facebook page. Of the 6 ads in their right column, four of them were for local businesses. State Farm agency, Ford dealership, local college and a hair salon. Those all sound like businesses you want on the radio.
If the prices aren't comparative, they aren't competition. But as I said, none of this is the point. Radio stations promote competitors every day. If you want to engage with your listeners, you have to be willing to reach out to them. If you don't like Facebook, then use Twitter.
Also, radio stations have the ability to place sponsorship posts and do contesting on Facebook and Twitter. They need to follow guidelines, but some radio stations consider it an effective part of their overall advertising strategy.
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This is absolutely true. CJAD in Montreal will sometimes have twitter only contests for some really great prizes. They keep doing it because it works. I'm sure they're not the only station in the world doing it.
They'll have contests where they ask a question for (example) a few pairs of tickets to some very hot concert, and have people tweet the answers to @CJAD or whatever their twitter is. They usually will do this right before the commercial break right before the newscasts, then they'll come back and announce the winners on the air, the answer and go straight into the news. They always manage to get quite a few winners that way. Then they'll pick the first few people who tweeted the right answer in and award them the prizes. The station has a very high participation on both facebook and twitter or text messages. Some of the announcers even complain that the box moves to fast to read some responses. I don't know what it generates for revenue, but it shows listeners are engaged and using technology to participate.
These are ideas that often come from sponsors. So if a sponsor wants you to contest on Twitter, you can bet there's revenue attached. And in order for the sponsor to come to you with this proposal, you need to have a minimum number of followers or likes. Otherwise, they'll just host the contest on their own social site. But when you have sponsors coming to radio with ideas for social media, perhaps it's time to listen. Don't you think?
No. If a client comes to you with an obtuse scheme like that, you ask the question, "Mr. Advertiser, how does that arrangement build awareness and sell your product?" Then you go on to explain how radio works differently from social media. How you have their attention at times when they're not using social media. How audio impressions are so strong that they stay with you for years. Tell them about the friendly treatment you'll give his potential customers when they call YOUR contest line. Talk about frequency. Talk about compelling copy. Sell YOURSELF!
Talk about the ways you're better than social media. Otherwise, to use the analogy of when TV was in its infancy, you're just TV without the pictures.
Talk about the ways you're better than social media. Otherwise, to use the analogy of when TV was in its infancy, you're just TV without the pictures.
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F
FredLeonard
Guest
Once true; not any more. People don't listen like they used to and when they listen, they are much less likely to pay attention (except for the angry geezers listening to WABC and other right-wing talkers). Those audio impressions that stay with you for years were years ago. Before stop sets. When creative advertising was still being produced for radio. Not any more.
You've nailed the problem. It doesn't have to be that way. Many folks here just accept the status quo. That's a negative attitude in my view.
Really? You don't have Kars for Kids embedded in your brain?
Also, I don't get the absolute hatred expressed here by some against conservative talk and of older people and people of non-color (angry old white men.) I try to steer clear of the political aspects of talk radio because I think there's a lot to discuss besides that. But since you brought it up ...
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