WABC SATURDAY NIGHT OLDIES $64000 QUESTION

[oaktree]

WABC is 15th 12+ Saturday night. It is 21st 25-54.

Sounds like a weener to me.

 

[Bobby Cann]

Hey Phil...why don't you replace SNO with the Radio Truth and Oaktree Show?? Now that would be a weener!

 

[radio mike]

WABC is 15th 12+ Saturday night. It is 21st 25-54.

You are using 7pm to midnight numbers. Use the hourlies to get the 6-10pm numbers and it is much higher.

Also don't rely on the fall book, since there were many pre-emptions in that one.

 

[oaktree]

Bobby, why don't you board-op for us. You qualified?

Let's make excuses, now. Tell an agency to "just use the hourlies," and "don't use the Fall book." And what "book" are you looking at, anyway? Certainly not the one in my Maximizer. Agencies buy from dayparts. Maybe you missed the memo.

 

[davideduardo]

You are using 7pm to midnight numbers. Use the hourlies to get the 6-10pm numbers and it is much higher.
Also don't rely on the fall book, since there were many pre-emptions in that one.

1. As Oaktree says, agencies do not use hour by hour numbers. They buy dayparts at the most granular level, and often only buy 6 AM to 7 PM. By the time you get to hour by hour numbers, the underlying diary count is so low as to makie any analysis suspect.

2. The Fall book for NY has not even been released, and will not be released until January, starting with NY on the 8th. The most recent book for any Arbitron market is Summer.

3. What, in the ratings, is a "preemption?" I have never heard the term used.

 

[amfmsw]

Fellas, I use hourly often to sell non-standard program blocks. We have an afternoon host whose been on for 50 (yes, fifty) years on the same signal. His show is huge, and runs 4-6pm. I sell 4-6pm.

How huge? NJ Gov Corzine was running late for his meeting with Don Imus and the Rutgers Womens BB team, and crashed his motorcade racing to get there in time. He was running late because he was being interviewed live on my station by our afternoon host. Hell, don't you think Rush Limbaugh sales team sells hourly noon to 3pm Eastern time? I sell noon to 3pm hourlys. I've sold hourly programming block ratings for years to many agencies. After all, isn't that the audience they're buying?

 

[davideduardo]

Fellas, I use hourly often to sell non-standard program blocks. We have an afternoon host whose been on for 50 (yes, fifty) years on the same signal. His show is huge, and runs 4-6pm. I sell 4-6pm.

How huge? NJ Gov Corzine was running late for his meeting with Don Imus and the Rutgers Womens BB team, and crashed his motorcade racing to get there in time. He was running late because he was being interviewed live on my station by our afternoon host. Hell, don't you think Rush Limbaugh sales team sells hourly noon to 3pm Eastern time? I sell noon to 3pm hourlys. I've sold hourly programming block ratings for years to many agencies. After all, isn't that the audience they're buying?

Unfortunately, "hourly" is 6 AM, 7 AM, 8 AM, etc. Noon to 3 PM is a "custom daypart" and not an "hourly." 4 to 6 PM is a custom daypart, 5 to 6 PM is an hourly.

It seems there are a bunch of folks who have not really used Maximiser and are unfamiliar with the terminology.

 

[amfmsw]

DE, you are correct. But I believe You missed/I didn't make my explanaiton clear enough.

The point of the earlier post was that WABC was ranked #? 7 to 12m, but the show runs 6p-10p. The poster's point was the ratings he quoted were for 6-10p. And the station sells it's ratings 6p-10p for that program block. It's a very common practice.

By the way, my adversarial debater, Happy New Year.

 

[davideduardo]

DE, you are correct. But I believe You missed/I didn't make my explanaiton clear enough.

I got it now. I did not see the daypart / custom daypart issue, as oooooooooold oldies are not quite my thing.

The point of the earlier post was that WABC was ranked #? 7 to 12m, but the show runs 6p-10p.

Custom daypart, 6/10 PM WABC is #17 25-54 and #12 12+ and #1 55+. That seems logical, given the content.

The poster's point was the ratings he quoted were for 6-10p. And the station sells it's ratings 6p-10p for that program block. It's a very common practice.

Yeah, specialty shows, if salable, are sold based on run time, not daypart. At one of our LA stations we have an 8 PM to 4 AM Saturday to Sunday morning show and it is sold as an entity, not by the hour.

By the way, my adversarial debater, Happy New Year.

And a happy, healthy and enjoyable New Year to you, also (See, I could have said, "why should it be happy? Most new years are not happy, per Arbitron qualitative..."). ;D

 

[warm590]

WHAT??? david eduardo says that oldies aren't his thing??? SAY IT AIN"T SO>>>>> The great one bashes the oldies format every chance he gets.....forget all of your BS, there is still a large audience for the 50's/ 60's oldies, without having repitition. I get this from many listeners in my area. THE popularity of the WABC sat nite oldies show points this way... ;D

fire away ;D

happy new year

warm590

 

[davideduardo]

WHAT??? david eduardo says that oldies aren't his thing??? SAY IT AIN"T SO>>>>>

50's oldies and easrly 60's ones, too, are not my thing as nearly every one is played out in my life. Stick a fork in it all.

The great one bashes the oldies format every chance he gets.....forget all of your BS, there is still a large audience for the 50's/ 60's oldies, without having repitition.

One more time:

1) In transactional markets, where radio is bought by agencies and clients with real ad departments, and not mom and pop stores, there is no money for 55+ audiences which is all you can get with 50's and early 60's oldies. This is no longer a radio format.

2) As surprising as it may seem, the cume reach of oldies or classic hits stations (whatever the demo) is less (often much less) than one in ten persons in a market, and the average listening level is below one in 20 radio listeners.

3) In 55+ listener groups, more are listening to news / talk and AC than oldies. In some markets more are listening to country, Black formats or Hispanic targeted formats than oldies. Oldies or classic hits is not the dominant format for persons of the generation that made each set of songs popular. Most people have moved on. I'd rather hear Wyclef Jean or Beyonce than Danny and the Juniors or Chuck Berry... most people in the early boomer generation have similarly moved on and left their childhood music behind save rare occasions.

I get this from many listeners in my area. THE popularity of the WABC sat nite oldies show points this way... ;D

Popularity? The AQH listening level is about 30 thousand persons, or the capacity of a smaller stadium... that is out of 16 million 12+ in the market. (As said before, the show was a greast idea, and brings some new and additional cume to WABC while capitalizing on the heritage of the calls and the image of the station. But there is no place in any terrestrial radio market for an old oldies station any more.

 

[greenboy]

I am 30 years old, I listen to oldies, and I have a lot of friends in my age group who also listen to oldies. No I don't only listen to
oldies I flip trough stations like everyone else does, but WZZN 94.7 Chicago gets a lot of listeners under 50. Why do I have to keep reading
posts from people that tell me this is not the case? More people my age are listening to 94.7 FM than are listening to 104.3 JACK FM.

 

[RickSklar77]

I am 30 years old, I listen to oldies, and I have a lot of friends in my age group who also listen to oldies. No I don't only listen to
oldies I flip trough stations like everyone else does, but WZZN 94.7 Chicago gets a lot of listeners under 50. Why do I have to keep reading
posts from people that tell me this is not the case? More people my age are listening to 94.7 FM than are listening to 104.3 JACK FM.

It's cool that you sample oldies, but there just aren't enough of you out there to allow stations to make meaningful money. I'm not trying to be a smartass, but how many friends do you have? 10? 20? 50? That's a mighty small number compared to Arbitron's (already woefully small) sample in markets like New York and Chicago.

In other words, Arbitron is the only measurement by which agencies and other major clients make their buying decisions. And the Arbitron numbers in market after market prove what Eduardo is saying.

BTW, who gives a f**k if David doesn't personally like oldies? He's simply pointing out the obvious: The numbers aren't there in any saleable way, so neither are the dollars.

50s-60s based oldies is a dying format. Let it go.

 

[warm590]

My point exactly....so terrestrial radio stations have told the folks who like 50's and 60's that they can pound salt, or go to satellite radio where they can get their choice. Nice. Sorry to p*ss in your corn flakes, David, the statistics only tell you that the stations go where the money is, which is why radio stations are in business to make money. What the listener wants doesn't matter. In a world where the terrestrial radio business is dying, why not send 'em away..and please, no more rants, David....we're friggin sick of it. Your cavalier attitude doesn't cut it in the real world....out in the audience...

Our little station has a niche for deep 50's and 60's oldies and the audience loves it...'nuff said...


dragon skin flak suit on, fire away.....

warm590 ;D

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

The better question is if agencies are not making 55+ buys, how is WZZN in Chicago Surviving? What is their ratings and how much are they billing? If there was no way to sell 50s and 60s oldies, WZZN, in a major market (Chicago), would not be 50s and 60s oldies and ABC would be doing something else with it. I don't think a major market station can survive billings wise with just mom and pop store advertisers.

 

[Shoot From Hip]

According to published figures (Robert Feder column in the Chicago Sun-Times), WZZN's revenue ranked around 23rd in the market last year. Nothing to brag about.

 

[RickSklar77]

According to published figures (Robert Feder column in the Chicago Sun-Times), WZZN's revenue ranked around 23rd in the market last year. Nothing to brag about.

Precisely. I'm not saying that stations aren't making money from 50s-60s oldies. The real issue, and I apologize for not being more clear, is a radio station's ability to maximize profit with the format.

At the risk of having this post truncated, I can tell you that over the past 5 books (Summer 2006 ~ Summer 2007), WZZN has averaged 20th place among Persons 25-54. So the question is, can their revenue exceed their expenses, and thus make the station profitable? The answer is probably YES. But that's not because of high revenues... it's because of minimized expenses. And minimized expenses means what?

Bueller? Bueller??

Less local talent. More syndication. Cheaper local talent. Blah blah blah.

All of us in radio are quick to point out how ratings transfer... or don't transfer... to higher revenues. That's fine, but the real basis on which companies, clusters, and individual stations are measured has never changed, and are no different than any other industry. The secret words are PROFIT MARGIN.

Please read that last paragraph again. It ain't about radio, kids. It's Business 101.

In another post, I'll probably rail against CC for their ridiculously short-term stratgey of reducing expenses by cutting key air talent to improve their margins.

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

One would think that ABC would be pretty desperate in Chicago to keep a format on that bills and rates below number 20 in key demographics. One would think that they would not be satisfied and would be looking for a format that would do much better.

 

[oaktree]

WABC under the direction of PD Phil Boyce, is an undisputed winner!

Ahhhh Shucks

Let's see ... WABC #1 AM in NYC, as predicted? Nope. How about a "mid-4s" maybe a "5", as predicted? Nope, that didn't happen, either. How about Imus? No, can't see much there. How about those important "buying demos" as predicted? No, not with a 3.3 overall and even worse in the real numbers. How about "best book since 1995" as predictedj, Phil ... right here. Nope, didn't happen. Very flat, very flat.

Citadel stock price ... $1.59 a share as of today. When last we spoke, it was at least near $2 a share. "Two-buck Chuck" it was called.

"And that's the way it is ... January 8, 2008. Good night."

 

[davideduardo]

One would think that ABC would be pretty desperate in Chicago to keep a format on that bills and rates below number 20 in key demographics. One would think that they would not be satisfied and would be looking for a format that would do much better.

ABC does not own the stations you are thinking of... they sold all but Disney and ESPN to Citadel.