Waco got The Beat

[bhenslee]

Can't see anyone doing Alternative...not much potential there. The best candidate for alternative would be 94.5 (which has absolutely no ratings), but that'll never happen with the current ownership.

I disagree, I think there is great potential. Where does alternative do well? In areas where there are college students and military. Waco has both.

I would take 94.5, it doesn't have the strongest signal, but with the frequency you could run a simulcast of Houston's 94-5 the Buzz and not have to hire local DJs. I think Wacoans would think it is cool they are picking up a Houston station and would be more inclined to tune in.

1) 94.5 in Waco is not owned by Clear Channel. Therefore, simulcasting The Buzz is impossible.
2) 94.5 in Waco does not reach the soldiers in Killeen.
3) Waco is not your typical college town. It's a town with some colleges, but it's not much of a "college town," especially compared to real college towns like College Station and Lubbock (neither of which have an alternative station).
4) Waco's demographics, like most smaller markets in Texas, simply aren't ideal for alternative (too many rednecks, I suppose). Correct me if I'm wrong, but other than KDGE, KTBZ, and KROX...the only other "alternative" station in Texas is in Abilene (a town with 3 colleges, an air force base, and a smaller minority population than Waco). Not a terrible sounding radio station, but they only pulled a 2.5 (12+) in the latest Nielson ratings. That won't cut much grass in a small market. The results in Waco would be similar.
5) Wacoans don't give a crap about Houston.

 

[93-3TheSurge]

1) CC could buy 94-5 in Waco or work out a deal with Kennelwood.
2) Touche.
3) True, but with Baylor included, Waco has enough alt rock fans to support it.
(College Station had "The X" a few years ago, and Texas Tech's KTXT is an alternative station).
4) 2.5 would be respectable, and better than what the existing KBCT is pulling in today.
5) Totally opinionated, but I think Wacoans would find it "neat" to be pulling in a Houston station, regardless of their feelings toward the Bayou City. You don't have to a radio dork like me or you to find that interesting.

 

[bhenslee]

Clear Channel is maxed out in Waco...can't own, operate, or influence anything else in the market.

A 2.5 share would certainly be an improvement on KBCT, but a 2.5 simply won't sell many commercials in a small market. There are small market stations with higher ratings than a 2.5 that aren't making any money.

You have to keep in mind that college students (especially at a school like Baylor) typically have little influence on the Arbitron ratings. Unfortunately, Arbitron dictates everything in the radio world...just the way it is. There's a reason College Station no longer has an alternative station...ratings and revenue were too low.

Unrelated to Arbitron, KTXT in Lubbock is no longer a "college alternative" station (there's a big difference between a colllege and commercial alternative). I believe finances were a major factor in that decision...not enough underwriters.

Odessa/Midland once had an alternative station. It flipped to "Bob FM" a few years back.

Alternative radio simply has a poor track record in the smaller Texas markets. Like I said earlier...too many rednecks.

 

[radiogroupie]

I'm just happy for Waco, because when Amarillo, Lubbock, and Midland/Odessa all got hip hop stations, I was thinking, "What about Waco?" Have Waco ever had a hip hop station? I just feel like everybody should be served in every market. You can say K104 and 97.9 The Beat, but do they talk about Waco? 104.9 The Beat will do that.

Hey Buc..serve me some chicken and Buscuits on the double.

 

[Kent]

3) True, but with Baylor included, Waco has enough alt rock fans to support it.
(College Station had "The X" a few years ago, and Texas Tech's KTXT is an alternative station).

The key word is "had." If alternative couldn't be supported in College Station, which has a much larger and more progressive college student population than the Baylor students, what makes you think alternative could be supported in Waco? Also, keep in mind that several Dallas/Ft. Worth FM's show up in the Waco book, and KDGE is not one of them. I don't see the numbers supporting the conclusion that alternative would be successful in Waco.

 

[fredcantu]

If alternative couldn't be supported in College Station, which has a much larger and more progressive college student population than the Baylor students, what makes you think alternative could be supported in Waco?

I agree. This is not your typical college town when the college in question is BAYLOR.

 

[93-3TheSurge]

Cousin Artie, I'm sure a potential alt rock station would be happy with a 2.5 rating. I'm not saying Baylor would support a radio station by itself, I don't think any university could; but you throw Baylor into the mix, along with HS students, ex-Dallasites, ex-Austinites, and native Wacoans who enjoy the format, and you could turn a profit. I'm not saying it would be #1, but its number would be competitive to Oldies 95-7 or 104-9 the Beat. Also, to say there is too many rednecks in Waco or other smaller Texas markets is just ignorant. When they are not seducing their cousins or listening to Kenny Chesney, they might be jamming out to Primus.


Kent---The key word isn't had. 103-9 The X was successful in Aggieland for six years, but Brazos Valley Communications decided to try a "Bob/Jack" classic hits format, which was hot at the time. Also, you say KDGE doesn't show up in the books in Waco, that is because the signal doesn't travel that far south. It doesn't enjoy the same signal that 105-3 The Fan or La Que Buena 94-1 does. The fact that KDGE's signal doesn't reach is yet another great reason to add an alternative station in Waco.


Look, I'm not saying an alt rock or modern rock station would kill in Waco, but you can't deny that it would be competitive.

 

[txchipk]

Kent---The key word isn't had. 103-9 The X was successful in Aggieland for six years, but Brazos Valley Communications decided to try a "Bob/Jack" classic hits format, which was hot at the time. Also, you say KDGE doesn't show up in the books in Waco, that is because the signal doesn't travel that far south. It doesn't enjoy the same signal that 105-3 The Fan or La Que Buena 94-1 does. The fact that KDGE's signal doesn't reach is yet another great reason to add an alternative station in Waco.

KLNO is at Cedar Hill with 100kw from a 485m tower.
KDGE is at Cedar Hill with 100kw from a 485m tower nearby.

It enjoys the same signal as all of the full class C FMs licensed off one of the Cedar Hill towers enjoys...

It doesn't show up becomes no one is listening to it...same as the 105-3 the Fan. 105.3 hasn't showed up in the Waco ratings since it was KLLI. Clear Channel's KBRQ 102.5 plays a fair amount of current rock and alternative stuff that there doesn't seem to be the demand for KDGE (or KEGL)...

 

[Kent]

Kent---The key word isn't had. 103-9 The X was successful in Aggieland for six years, but Brazos Valley Communications decided to try a "Bob/Jack" classic hits format, which was hot at the time.

Ummm....yes, it is. Brazos Valley Communications didn't choose 103.9 as its new home from "Jack" because The X was setting the world on fire. It chose 103.9 because it, like most every other alternative rock station, isn't doing nearly as well as it was 15 years ago. While PPM has helped the alternative format, it's still not up to the levels it was in '95, and PPM isn't coming to Waco anytime soon. Also, alternative stations nationwide have ramped up the gold considerably. They've gone back through their old CD collection from the mid-90's because that music has a certain mass appeal that current alternative music doesn't have.

Also, you say KDGE doesn't show up in the books in Waco, that is because the signal doesn't travel that far south. It doesn't enjoy the same signal that 105-3 The Fan or La Que Buena 94-1 does. The fact that KDGE's signal doesn't reach is yet another great reason to add an alternative station in Waco.

As Chip points out, KDGE most certainly does enjoy the same signal 105.3 and 94.1 do. The signals are virtually identical, and they come from the same tower farm in Cedar Hill. I know I could hear the old Q-102 in Waco just fine, and the radio dial around Waco hasn't changed much since I left Texas. The closest stations to 102.1 are 101.7 from Temple and 102.5 from Hillsboro, and neither of those stations have ever caused interference issues for 102.1, whether it was KTXQ or KDGE.

Look, I'm not saying an alt rock or modern rock station would kill in Waco, but you can't deny that it would be competitive.

I don't know if it would even be competitive since the format is available but can't even get the minimum required reporting in Waco right now. However, I would agree with you if you said there was at least one station in Waco (KBCT) that was such a disaster it would have nothing to lose, and a small possibility of gain, by flipping to alternative.

 

[bhenslee]

Surge is correct about KDGE...doesn't get into the Waco market. Fades out around Hillsboro. However, KEGL does have a decent signal in the northern half of the market. Meanwhile, Cumulus rocker KLTD/Temple covers the southern half of the market. Both stations were a no show in the Fall ratings. In the past year, KBRQ has gone balls-to-wall active rock, with very little classic rock.

Surge,

The more you talk, the more you sound like a eager kid that has little hands-on experience in the business (at least in a town like Waco).
If that's the case, I applaud your passion and enthusiasm, wish it exisited in others. I was in a similar position 15 years ago in Lubbock. But unless you've actually worked first-hand at a radio station in Waco (programming or sales), unless you have actual lived in Waco (not as a college student living in the Baylor bubble or out at TSTC, but as an actual long term resident), you are clueless about what it takes to be successful in today's radio and business environment in Waco and similar markets.

The redneck comment was a bit sarcastic...but it actually has an element of truth. Most of the businesses in Waco are owned by white people age 40+ that listen to WACO 100 and/or KBGO. Trust me, the new 104.9 The Beat will have a hard time selling local spots, regardless of their ratings. Trust me, an alternative station with a 2.5 share would have a hard time selling local spots, as well. Plus, a 2.5 woudn't attract much regional or national buys, either. Keep in mind, you're also competing with local and cable TV, print, and internet for advertising dollars. In Waco, if you're not #1 or #2 in your target demo, you're gonna have a hard time keeping the lights on. That's why Simmons wanted out of Waco. They were were nowhere close to winning any of their target demos (on any of their stations). The result? Selling $5 spots, lots of trade, and lots of added value...very little (if any) profit.

My comments on this thread are based on history, facts, and experience. I'm not saying people in Waco wouldn't listen to an alternative station...I'm saying, as a business, it would have a hard time surviving.

 

[bhenslee]

As for KBCT, the station is owned a by a wealthy fellow who thought "hey, I bet it would be fun to own a radio station." That radio station is basically his hobby. Based on KBCT's history under the current ownership, any attempt at any music format (has been and) would be a disaster. The only hope for that signal is for it to be sold to one of the new outfits in Waco (M&M or Waco Entertainment Group). Even then, I doubt Alternative would be at the top of the possible format list. There is still a hole or two to fill that might be more attractive to a new owner. At the moment, Waco doesn't have an AC, Urban AC, or classic rock.

 

[bhenslee]

At the moment, Waco has only 1 country station!

 

[93-3TheSurge]

To Kent and Chip---It may have the same signal on paper, but if you actually were to drive through Waco, you would know that the signal doesn't get down to Waco. Don't always go off of what the FCC or radio-locator says because it isn't always accurate (when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me). Even if you were just going off of what you read at radio-locator.com, you could see even with their maps that the "distant listening area" ends before you get to Waco, whereas with KLNO-FM and KRLD-FM the distant listening area covers Waco. So, again, it does not enjoy the same signal, which is why it doesn't get Waco ratings. Next you will say Houston's 94-5 The Buzz doesn't get Waco ratings, and that is why Waco shouldn't attempt to flip a format for alternative. Also, 103-9 The X was successful, and it was not flipped because it wasn't making Brazos any money. Brazos just saw a better opportunity with Jack.

To Cousin Artie---Wow, I thought my writing skills could match those of NY Times columnists in their 40s and 50s, but, you guessed that I am younger; maybe because I am lobbying for an alternative station, which is generally listened to by a 30 or younger crowd. You make good points, and I have no doubt that you are a seasoned Waco listener who knows the terrain. But it is that type of negative, old school thinking that is keeping an alternative station out of Waco. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a format, such as 104-9 taking a chance on hip hop. I stand by my statement that an alt rock station would receive a 2.5 rating, which is pretty much what any other station would get in Waco, save for 97-5 and WACO 99.9.

Flip the presently horrid 94-5 KBCT to alternative, play 90s Gold with a good blend of new stuff, throw Lovelines w/ Dr. Drew from 10P-12A, and if it doesn't work out, then flip it to KBBW-FM and make it a simulcast of KBBW-AM 1010 and be done with it.

 

[bhenslee]

WACO-FM 15.9 - 14.5 - 14.8 Country Clear Channel
KBGO-FM 7.1 - 8.3 - 10.7 Oldies Clear Channel
KWTX-FM 8.7 - 7.4 - 7.8 CHR Clear Channel
KKDA-FM 5.6 - 6.2 - 6.6 Urban Service
KBRQ-FM 5.2 - 5.8 - 5.8 Rock Clear Channel
KWOW-FM 6.0 - 6.6 - 5.3 Regional Mexican Border Media Partners
KBFB-FM 3.6 - 3.3 - 3.7 Urban Radio One
WBAP-AM 4.0 - 4.1 - 3.3 Talk Citadel
KHCK-FM 4.8 - 5.0 - 3.3 Regional Mexican Univision
KLRK-FM 4.0 - 3.7 - 3.3 AC Simmons Media Group
KWTX-AM 3.6 - 4.5 - 2.9 Talk Clear Channel
KHKS-FM 0.8 - 1.2 - 1.6 CHR Clear Channel
WRR-FM - - 0.8 - 1.2 Classical City of Dallas
KZPS-FM 1.6 - 1.7 - 1.2 Classic Rock Clear Channel
KBBW-AM 0.4 - 0.8 - 1.2 Christian American Broadcasting
KOOC-FM 0.4 - 0.4 - 1.2 Rhythmic CHR Cumulus
KRZI-AM 2.4 - 1.7 - 1.2 Sports Simmons Media Group
KSCS-FM - - 0.4 - 0.8 Country Citadel
KTFW-FM 2.0 - 0.8 - 0.8 Classic Country LKCM Radio Group
KBCT-FM 0.8 - 0.8 - 0.8 Talk Kennelwood Broadcasting

 

[jd]

Allow me to interject an observation here. I agree (somewhat) with Surge on just one point in this discussion, something that Cousin Artie mentioned. The KDGE signal is possibly inferior to that of some of the other Cedar Hill sticks, although I have nothing factual to back that up. It's strictly based on my own random listening, in which I detected the signal on 102.1 having some problems a little north of Waco.

As for everything else, you guys are doing just fine, but you may as well be arguing with a post.

 

[93-3TheSurge]

Wow, JD, that is the first time you have somewhat agreed with me. Maybe if you drove through Waco and tried to pull in KDGE, you would completely agree with me.

As far as the last portion of your reply, that's harsh. You should at least elaborate if you are going to rip someone.

 

[purpledevil]

Wow, JD, that is the first time you have somewhat agreed with me. Maybe if you drove through Waco and tried to pull in KDGE, you would completely agree with me.

As far as the last portion of your reply, that's harsh. You should at least elaborate if you are going to rip someone.

I can attest to Surge's claim. I drove through Waco last week, coming up from San Antone...(insert steel gee-tar here)
I had more success with holding onto KROX from Austin than picking up The Edge from Dallas. Neither signal was impressive nor was The Eagle for that matter. Now, of course, I'm from Houston and I listen to The Buzz quite often. So naturally, I'm searching for the same format where I know I can find it. You are right in the fact that no alternative station is present in Waco. My question would be is there a demand for an alternative station in Waco?

To me, I don't see it. It's way too rural of an area still to support another rock station. The Bear never seems that impressive in the ratings I've seen for Waco, and then to fragment what it gets with another station? Just don't see the money in it myself. Now, I got a chance to catch KLTD while driving up through Temple. Too bad they don't have a stronger signal themselves. Maybe I just caught it at the right time, but 101.7 was certainly rocking for the time I had them in the car. I thought KLTD was classic rock? Sounded more active than classic, although there was the staple AC/DC tune thrown in there.

 

[Kent]

Also, 103-9 The X was successful, and it was not flipped because it wasn't making Brazos any money. Brazos just saw a better opportunity with Jack.

And why do you suppose Brazos saw a better opportunity with Jack? Could it have been because billing was down at The X? No one said 103.9 The X wasn't making money. It simply wasn't hitting its margins. You can still make money but not make as much as the owner wants or needs, and that's what happened with The X.

I've competed against Tommy Vascocu. He's not stupid, let alone stupid enough to get rid of a cash cow! He got rid of his poorest performer in the billing department, and it's as simple as that.

 

[bhenslee]

Purple,

Bob and Tom really hurt The Bear's ratings. Station does well after 9am. Even so, your're right, Waco isn't the strongest of Rock markets.

You must of caught KLTD at the right time. Station is skitzophrenic most of the time. Ratings are terrible in their home market, and as noted earlier, they got a goose egg in Waco. Folks in Hewitt, Eddy, Lorena, and Moody (all part of the Waco metro) can get KLTD as good, if not better, than KBRQ.

 

[93-3TheSurge]

Also, 103-9 The X was successful, and it was not flipped because it wasn't making Brazos any money. Brazos just saw a better opportunity with Jack.

And why do you suppose Brazos saw a better opportunity with Jack? Could it have been because billing was down at The X? No one said 103.9 The X wasn't making money. It simply wasn't hitting its margins. You can still make money but not make as much as the owner wants or needs, and that's what happened with The X.

I've competed against Tommy Vascocu. He's not stupid, let alone stupid enough to get rid of a cash cow! He got rid of his poorest performer in the billing department, and it's as simple as that.

Kent, you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I never said The X was tearing the cover off the ball, but it was indeed making money. 103-9 The X was not a cash cow, but I spoke with the morning DJ at KXCS (The X) from 2004 when he stopped by the KTSW studios in 2008 (a year after the flip), and he explained that while KXCS was putting up good numbers consistently, BOB FM and other classic hits-themed formats (Bob, Jack, Dick, etc.) were really hot and that is why Brazos decided to jump ship. They saw an opportunity not just to simply "hit their margins," but to possibly be #1 in Aggieland. Alternative worked in Aggieland, and I am sure that somewhere in the near future, you will see it again in the Bryan/College Station area.


To Purple, again thanks for being another poster to confirm that KDGE's signal doesn't reach Waco. I drove through Waco a couple of weeks ago on my way to Dallas, and I too was surprised by KLTD. I am used to hearing them play classic rock, but the majority of what I heard was active rock. I had the same experience with The Bear; they rocked all the way through Waco. I don't remember hearing Boston, AC/DC, or any other classic-rock types. I may have caught them at a good time, like you. Cousin Artie would be the source to find out the percentage of active rock/classic rock The Bear and KLTD plays.