WAIT AM 850?

[radiotower40]

Does anyone have any idea about the future of this station? It has been quite some time
since WCPT moved to AM 820, and yet WAIT is still simulcasting CNN Headline News with
sister station WKIF 92.7. They are selling NO local advertising for the northwest suburbs.
They are only selling national spots and local spots for the Kankakee area. The station is
licensed to Crystal Lake, yet their giving weather updates for the Kankakee area, which
everyone knows can be dramatically different than conditions in the northern suburbs and
Chicago(especially in terms of snowfall amounts and severe weather such as tornadoes).
So this station can't possibly be making any money for Newsweb.

I believe they need, at the very least, to localize this station with weather and advertising
for area they serve.

I would like to see this station return to the syndicated Dial Global standards format which
once occupied AM 850. There is a hole in this market for that format, and the area their
signal serves is only partially served by by WSQR in Sycamore and WCGO in Chicago Heights,
which could be going away very soon.

I know people are going to say that there is no money to be made with this format, but, could
it be worse than what they are making now? Which from listening is 0. It would cost them nothing
to put it on the bird and tape a couple weather reports. I heard they were going to broker the station
again after the WCPT move, but, they are still not doing that.

These are just my thoughts, what do you think they should or will do with WAIT? In my opinion this
is a waste of a signal. At least with the standards format they have a chance of making some money,
and if you remember a few years back they cracked the top ten with their 2,500 watt signal.

I also mentioned them brokering the station and I believe if they have not started by now, there isn't
much interest from anyone wishing to buy the time.

 

[Link]

The last PPM has it as a no show. This shows wannabe broadcasters like me that you need to do more than just broadcast to get ratings.

Fred's got too many radio stations. It would be nice if he would do something creative with 1 of them. I would suggest a Hindi or Paki station. Who has got the money to bankroll it? Newsweb is waiting for someone to pay them. Else its going to be CNN for a long time.

I would like to see a soft AC format on that station. If he wants $500/ hr to broker it, how am I going to make money? It's going to be CNN for a long time.

This is the basic problem of consolidation. It raised the prices of stations so high, no one can afford to put a marginal format like Hindi or Soft AC on the air. The station is worth more not to compete for brokering time with the owner's other stations, than to air something people would enjoy.

This is why we should all support bankruptcy for broadcast owners. Take the monopoly money out of broadcasting.

 

[audioguy]

Not that it matters, but I personally would love to see them put some music on the air for us boomers! There's a lot of us around, and supposedly as a group, we represent a major amount of disposable income. Actually, I'd love to hear big band, jazz, blues, or rockabilly. Even more exciting would be a locally produced show with knowledgeable announcers doing the commentary.

Instead of airing CNN, which is arguably about as exciting as watching paint dry, it would be so cool to have a real music station on AM in Chicago. And why not? Fred has enough money; he could afford it!

I remember the original WAIT on 820... "try a little tenderness". Ah, those were the days!

 

[radiotower40]

I agree with both of you, I think you said it perfectly! I would like to know how Fred who tries to play himself
off as one of the only "local" owners in Chicago, offers almost nothing in the way of local programing(unless
it is brokered, and he is not paying for it.) I would also love to see a soft AC or big band or ez listening format
locally programmed on this station, and like audioguy pointed out there is a lot of disposable income still out
there in the 55+ population which is always written off by radio. I would say with the recession that at this time
my older relatives have a lot more disposable income to use than I do.

The reason I suggested to just syndicate the station with the Dial Global standards format is that it would not
cost them anything to do. I would like to see it local, but, like Link pointed out that would cost them some
money, so it isn't going to happen. Link, you also pointed out that they were a no show in the PPM's (just like
their FM's are now), would it not make sense if they were even planning to sell the station, that showing up in
the ratings would be better for them.

I know stations geared at the 55+ crowd can't make money or get ratings. Look at how Jack is now kicking WLS FM
in the ratings . WLS FM is number 2 overall and they are doing well in the 25-54 and 18-34 numbers as
well. They are beating most of the stations that target those demos exclusively!  

 

[Prais]

I'm pretty sure that there is a GREAT difference in the cost of running Headline News or espn (each nothing) and the cost of Dial Global (ASCRAP, BMI fees) and more paperwork.

I too, would favor Dial Global, but it would cost. In these tough economic times, the gamble of starting a sales dept., along with taking a percentage of GROSS income for music licenses may NOT be worth it.

 

[Link]

They could easily do it. Except if they found someone who would actually pay to broker the station, then they would be bad guys taking away the old folks station again. I don't think they want to be in that trick bag. Hence a few more years of CNN coming @ 850

 

[Link]

If they would assume any financial risk at all. They should put the dial global on and then use that as a basis to broker programs that would be aimed at older adults. Just like we've got polish, greek, whatever stations. This would just aimed at older folks. They could break away from the programming whenever they could sell time to stock brokers, old folks homes ect. that would want to buy time to sell a product to this group. Then they could make good whatever required network spots in other hours. Now whom among us wants to pay $500/hr to do this for Newsweb? Because they won't do it

 

[Prais]

Your idea, though it has merit, may be too much work.

They get cnn for free w/o any license, now. It's the lazy/cheap way out. PS; News attracts older people, too. They keep the station on, for only the cost of the electric bill.

 

[Prais]

Audio guy said; "I remember the original WAIT on 820... "try a little tenderness". Ah, those were the days!"

AAH - the good years when WAIT had studio and transmitter in Elmhurst, and owned by WFMF! The fabulous John Doremus in the morning and Ken A. Alexander in the afternoon. Mutual news, some hours on WAIT, and delayed an hour, when rebroadcast on WFMF. That schmaltzy music appealing to (my) parents - born in the 1920's, and older folks.

WFMF was (mostly) instrumental (and a strong #1 rank) and WAIT was mostly vocal. Simpler times. Higher numbers for am.

 

[audioguy]

Yes, I also enjoyed John Doremus. Listened for years to "Patterns in Music" over WMAQ. For the theme, he used "Dream of Olwen" by Charles Williams. I don't remember much about WFMF, because back in those days our family couldn't afford an FM radio so we only listened to AM! Later on, I got an AIWA portable AM/FM from Allied and could listen to the three classical stations, WEFM, WFMT, and WNIB. Our favorite was WEFM, especially the Listener's Choice program which was announced by Dick Noble.

Let's see, what if WAIT ran music with a bunch of radio volunteers, and played the national ads that are currently running on CNN? In fact, they could keep the news. Would that cost any more than what they're doing now? I don't know, I'm just asking. It's a daylight station, for heaven's sake...

 

[Prais]

Audioguy said;
Let's see, what if WAIT ran music with a bunch of radio volunteers, and played the national ads that are currently running on CNN? In fact, they could keep the news. Would that cost any more than what they're doing now? I don't know, I'm just asking. It's a daylight station, for heaven's sake...
Posted

Volunteers - free
WHY play the national cnn ads? They are what PAY to have cnn on the station. I believe there are 2 min of ads in the first 5 of news that are the barter for that section. ok.

Then you can run the music from satellite (and must pay ascrap and bmi fees - VERY expensive in Chicago.) Can't get around that if you want those great old songs.

Daylight stations are fine. LOTS of them make money. Big deal, no sports. Everybody watches tv at night anyway. I once owned a daytime am that made a ton.
Then you can run the music from satellite (and must pay ascrap and bmi fees - VERY expensive in Chicago.) Can't get around that if you want those great old songs.

Daylight stations are fine. LOTS of them make money. Big deal, no sports. Everybody watches tv at night anyway. I once owned a daytime am that made a ton.

Now you have amateur jocks, barter ads, music and news - but no revenue, yet.

Who pays the electric bill and the rent? How about 3 hours of religion, starting at sign-on Sunday morning? I just made 300 dollars a week/15k a year (low estimate) with zero effort. Paid the electric bill
and the coffee service.





Now you have amateur jocks, barter ads, music and news - but no revenue, yet. Who pays the eletric bill and the rent?

 

[Link]

Based upon the WJIB boston news articles, ( sorry I don't have the link) the BMI ASCAP are not that high until you get ratings. Once that happens then it gets more expensive. If you had ratings though, you could probably afford them. I think alot of the brokered stations in chicago are already paying ascap/bmi. They are at WNDZ because they are playing music in their unbrokered time.

 

[Prais]

Mr. Link,
Ratings have absolutely NOTHING to do with ascrap and bmi fees. Their fee is based on the station's GROSS REVENUE.

Do you pay taxes? WHENEVER someone can take a percentage of your GROSS REVENUE it is a bad thing. This is particularly true when there is the feeble amount that is generated in a place like your potential music station on 850. If you are an owner, that is YOUR money ot of YOUR pocket. That's why cnn works well -no music licenses.

The brokered stations pay ascrap and bmi for "individual songs" they play - not a blanket license, as would be true if 850 was a satellite music format. The station is responsible for the fee, which is a part of the broker's cost to the station.

This may SOUND easy, but it adds up... especially in a piss-ant operation as we are discussing.

 

[radiotower40]

Prais, I was just reading what Link posted about WNDZ running music during unsold airtime, and I noticed
that WCFJ AM 1470 Chicago Heights, is playing mostly music. There is very little brokered time on the station,
which is also owned by Newsweb. The mix of music on the station is very eclectic, ranging from eighties rock
to jazz to big band and country. Why do you think they are running music on WCFJ instead of CNN?

I was always under the impression that the syndicator payed the fees for the music, and that is why so many
stations ran syndicated formats instead of live programming. The station which I worked for ran an EZ Hits/Nostalgia
format, but, it was live and local and we payed the fees. We even just ran our overnight music off our own server
instead of going on the bird.

I am not questioning you, I am just trying to figure out why Newsweb would pay the fees for a station like WCFJ,
with it's weak signal day and night(they get beat up by WMBD in Peoria all night and some mornings until well
after 9 AM, and then it starts getting hit in the winter months somedays before 2 PM). I am not all that far from
their towers in Crete, and considered in their primary coverage day and night according to Radio-Locator(which
in the case of WCFJ, is waaaay off!) and won't pay for it on WAIT with a much stronger signal?

I don't run the company, but, in your opinion would you think it would make more sense to run CNN on WCFJ and
simulcast it with 92.7 WKIF in Kankakee, which is much closer to WCFJ geographically anyway, and spend the fees
on WAIT which actually has a change to be heard by most of the Chicago area. Another thing they could do is
run WCFJ and WAIT together with the WCFJ music. The only time this would be a problem would be when they
are running the same show as WSBC AM 1240(which only seems to be about 2 or 3 hours a day now)because I
think the people who were paying for time on both stations realized that nobody was listening to 1470.

In closing it is just a sad thing in my opinion that a station like WAIT is just languishing there, when quite a few
people would enjoy some type of music programming on there. I think the reason this one bothers me so much
is that Fred scooped up so many stations in the Chicagoland area and tries the "local guy" angle, when in all reality
he is running his stations worse and with less "local" flavor than most of the corporate operator's.

 

[One Who Knows]

Audioguy said;
Let's see, what if WAIT ran music with a bunch of radio volunteers, and played the national ads that are currently running on CNN? In fact, they could keep the news. Would that cost any more than what they're doing now? I don't know, I'm just asking. It's a daylight station, for heaven's sake...
Posted

Volunteers - free
WHY play the national cnn ads? They are what PAY to have cnn on the station. I believe there are 2 min of ads in the first 5 of news that are the barter for that section. ok.

Then you can run the music from satellite (and must pay ascrap and bmi fees - VERY expensive in Chicago.) Can't get around that if you want those great old songs.

Daylight stations are fine. LOTS of them make money. Big deal, no sports. Everybody watches tv at night anyway. I once owned a daytime am that made a ton.
Then you can run the music from satellite (and must pay ascrap and bmi fees - VERY expensive in Chicago.) Can't get around that if you want those great old songs.

Daylight stations are fine. LOTS of them make money. Big deal, no sports. Everybody watches tv at night anyway. I once owned a daytime am that made a ton.

Now you have amateur jocks, barter ads, music and news - but no revenue, yet.

Who pays the electric bill and the rent? How about 3 hours of religion, starting at sign-on Sunday morning? I just made 300 dollars a week/15k a year (low estimate) with zero effort. Paid the electric bill
and the coffee service.





Now you have amateur jocks, barter ads, music and news - but no revenue, yet. Who pays the eletric bill and the rent?

Let me get this straight? You think in one of the most labor-union intensive cities in America, you're going to run a radio station with "volunteer" (no pay) jocks? I don't think that one would last very long in Chi-town....

 

[briankay]

The WAIT owners should apply to the FCC to operate their station in pure digital IBOC. In pure digital mode the digital power is 32 times higher (15dB higher) compared to an AM IBOC station in hybrid mode, plus the adjacent side bands that all the anti-HD radio crowd complain about are eliminated in pure digital mode. Even if 1% of cars have an HD radio now, these listeners would be in for a treat as regards reception. By my quick calculations HD reception in pure digital mode for WAIT would extend to almost 100 miles.

This report http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/Non-NRSC reports/AM_All_Digital_Report.pdf shows how a 10kW test station at 1660 kHz in pure digital mode extends to over 150km (beyone the 0.1mV/m contour). A pure digital station at 850 kHz will travel similar distance with much less power (lower AM frequencies travel farther). BTW WAIT is 2.5 kW.

It's only a dream now, but FM stereo quality without the hiss on an AM HD in pure digital mode would reinvigorate the AM dial in Chicago. I think their is room for a new music station if this happens. I hope the FCC could have the wisdom to provide the option to allow some innovative AM stations operate in pure digital mode.

 

[Prais]

Coupla tings here;

Mr. TR1992...
You asked... Why do you think they are running music on WCFJ instead of CNN?

Well, I'm sure Newsweb has its reasons, but I'm not privvy to that info. I bet it's an interesting answer.

Also, the syndicator NEVER pays the music license. That would create an awesome mountain of paperwork for the SYNDICATOR. Not practical. Do you think AT40 pays the license fee for all those places? Drake-Chenault would be BROKE with the major market fees they would have to pay. Nope. That's not how it works. The station owner pays.

Maybe the eclectic mix is because someone had a large music library, and rather than waste it - they play it on what would be the "cheapest" station of them all to music license. The opinion I hear here, is that CFJ has low billing, hence, low music fee.

I agree with your theories, but Fred is the head, so to speak.

Mr. O.W. Knows...
The employees would have to vote IN a union. It would be easy in "chi-town (AARG I hate that) to probably get yung'ins from a bcst school or college to work the place for free. Gotta have some angle.

and Mr Key,who said,..I hope the FCC could have the wisdom to provide the option to allow some innovative AM stations operate in pure digital mode.

Interesting. Well, unless President O appoints all new comissioners, the fcc will remain a joke, anyway.

Thanks.

 

[b344077]

Do Polkas count as music?

 

[jh]

Do Polkas count as music?

Yes. If they are licensed by ASCAP or BMI the station would have to pay. However, many are public domain. If someone came up with a format of all public domain polkas, then they would not have to pay ASCAP and BMI.

Years ago, there was an easy listening format available on tape that only included public domain songs so stations running it didn't need to pay the music fees. I don't think too many stations opted for this service of largely unfamiliar music.

 

[mbatchelor]

Not entirely true - I know of a guy who owns a rimshot FM in a top 20 market, that has never made a dime, but managed to show up in the arbs with a 0.5 - his music licensing with BMI went from somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 per month to about $3k, which he couldn't afford, and ultimately it led to the demise of the station. Don't know about ASCAP and SESAC, but BMI definitely looks at ratings.

Mr. Link,
Ratings have absolutely NOTHING to do with ascrap and bmi fees. Their fee is based on the station's GROSS REVENUE.

Do you pay taxes? WHENEVER someone can take a percentage of your GROSS REVENUE it is a bad thing. This is particularly true when there is the feeble amount that is generated in a place like your potential music station on 850. If you are an owner, that is YOUR money ot of YOUR pocket. That's why cnn works well -no music licenses.

The brokered stations pay ascrap and bmi for "individual songs" they play - not a blanket license, as would be true if 850 was a satellite music format. The station is responsible for the fee, which is a part of the broker's cost to the station.

This may SOUND easy, but it adds up... especially in a piss-ant operation as we are discussing.