Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me!

[TheBigA]

And you have the gall to claim I'm avoiding your questions.

Because you haven't answered them.

This is not about me. Quit bringing up biographical information about me as a defense for your inability to produce anything that says taxpayer money is being used to fund executive salaries. All the rest of this is a smoke screen, and then you tell me I'm circumventing this discussion when the most basic issue is taxpayer money for executives.

Keep on believing what you want to believe. The truth is hard to take when it doesn't fit with your opinions.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Would you two like a pair of dueling pistols? I would be happy to provide them for you.

 

[Bob1370]

"Would you two like a pair of dueling pistols? I would be happy to provide them for you."

Maybe we should just tell 'em to, as the title of the board suggests, "Take It Outside."

Actually, you can look in all public stations' reports and find out where the money comes from and where it goes, it's no secret. It's all on line if you take a moment to look. The reports will even be a little on the conservative side since a lot of people who are listed as management really double in brass as producers and/or on-air talent. But even by the most conservative measures, the lion's share of the money from all sources winds up right on the air in the production of the final product you see and hear.

Whether you like the programs or not is, of course, an individual matter of taste. But the money's essentially spent on providing what you see and hear, with the hope that you'll listen, watch and find it worthwhile.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Actually, you can look in all public stations' reports and find out where the money comes from and where it goes, it's no secret. It's all on line if you take a moment to look. The reports will even be a little on the conservative side since a lot of people who are listed as management really double in brass as producers and/or on-air talent. But even by the most conservative measures, the lion's share of the money from all sources winds up right on the air in the production of the final product you see and hear.

Whether you like the programs or not is, of course, an individual matter of taste. But the money's essentially spent on providing what you see and hear, with the hope that you'll listen, watch and find it worthwhile.

Lee Rust put it best when he wrote about changes in the broadcasting industry, along with the quest to obtain funding, especially in these uncertain economic times.

Instead of bantering about who makes what salary, or how much tax dollars goes towards public broadcasting or other non-profits, would it behoove all of us to make sure that communications, no matter what form it is, remains a viable entity in the future.

As now an outsider to the industry, I would hate to see radio turn into a word used when describing something that once existed, like the horse and buggy, but is now a part of history because it has become outdated.

 

[heydaybegone]

As now an outsider to the industry,

Mark G. Do tell! We, on these boards don't ALWAYS have the scoop. I won't assume. And I can't say that your remaining comments don't reflect the thoughts of many of us dearly departed from our passion. Just askin' ;D

HDBG

 

[Mark Giardina]

As now an outsider to the industry,

Mark G. Do tell! We, on these boards don't ALWAYS have the scoop. I won't assume. And I can't say that your remaining comments don't reflect the thoughts of many of us dearly departed from our passion. Just askin' ;D

HDBG

HDBG - I was going to say reject from the industry, but it's Monday and I thought I would be nice to myself for at least one day.
;D

 

[Bob1370]

"As now an outsider to the industry, I would hate to see radio turn into a word used when describing something that once existed, like the horse and buggy, but is now a part of history because it has become outdated."

Speaking as someone who once TRIED to walk away from the mike, and found out in the end that Clifton Davis could have written "Never Can Say Goodbye" just for me (cue up the hits you don't hear any more thread)...I think that's going to be up to us. If we can find a way to keep producing, presenting and distributing quality live audio programming, then whether we deliver it over the air on AM and FM, on WiFi, or online, or (most likely) all of the above at once, won't matter. It'll still be radio and it'll still have impact IF it's as good as we know we can make it...

 

[aaronread]

You want proof that taxpayer money is used for executive salaries; do the math. Radio has three fundraising drives a year, while TV also has three. The average amount raised for each drive is around $125,000. $125,000 x 6=$750,000. The CEO alone makes over $300,000 while the top five executives; station manager, radio & TV vice presidents, Chief Engineer, and Comptroller, make over a million a year total. So where is the extra money coming from to pay those salaries?

Umm. Yes, there's radio fundraisers. Last I checked there are also TV fundraisers, too. I have no idea how much money the TV raises, though...I'm a radio guy...but it stands to reason that it's well into six or seven figures. TV underwriting tends to be far more valuable than radio underwriting, too. Again, I don't know what WXXI-TV makes off underwriting, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's a hefty chunk of change.

_________________________________________________

I also can't speak much for WXXI's finances, nor can I speak too much about what the balance is since The Great Recession began in 2007. But prior to 2007, I've seen enough rough overviews for medium and major market RADIO stations (again, adding TV to the mix makes it a somewhat different beast) where corporate underwriting made up about 40% of most stations' budgets. Straight listener donations would be another 30-35%, and a lot of the rest was from "challenge grants".

There's good reason to separate out "challenge grants", even though they mostly come from corporate sources...you don't get them through the same avenues that you get the other two. You get challenge grants by being skilled at schmoozing the rich and powerful. That may be inelegant, but it's apt. And it's not something most people are good at. And it requires your membership department be rather skilled...most times when a challenge grant is made, if the challenge isn't achieved the donor will not "give the money anyways". E.g. if you have a $10,000 dollar-for-dollar challenge, and you raise $9000...you only get $9000 from the granter. If you only raise $2000, you only get $2000 from the granter...and odds are good the granter won't give you that challenge again, either.

Only 5-10% for ongoing expenses were covered by grants...in pubradio that's usually federal grants of some kind. (i.e. "taxpayer dollars") For some stations it's even less. I'm no accountant, but I'd feel pretty confident that commercial radio, in the aggregate, is employing enough of the usual tax-avoiding tricks that most large businesses use, that, in the end, a lot more of your taxpayer dollar is going to benefit commercial radio than to public radio. :

 

[SirRoxalot]

Wow. The irresistable force meets the immovable object.

Just a thought... A business has a budget. The budget is based on income. Does it really matter what source of income is reduced when it come to the point of deciding on cutting costs? If "taxpayer money" doesn't go to pay "fat salaries", it goes to pay something else - the electric bill, programming costs, etc. Does any "taxpayer money" fully fund any particular programming? And, when I say "fully fund", I mean not on the cost of the syndicated content, but the costs related to broadcasting it, the cost of fund raising for that infrastructure, the cost of chasing those grants, etc.

The crux of the matter is that some people don't think that the muckety-mucks in public broadcasting deserve their salaries. OK, we get that. Obviously, the folks who approve those salaries disagree. If the survival of the enterprise is threatened, that decision may change. Until then, I don't see much chance of change. So, some people don't contribute to their local public stations. Some people feel that what they receive is worthy of monetary support, and make the pledge. And the world goes on.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

For the record, Voice of Reason, the "taxpayers dollars" coming to WXXI and other public radio stations in New York for the new journalism initiative you cited are NOT coming from NPR. NPR is a national producer and distributor of news, talk and music programs. It does not provide funding to local stations. In fact, it works the other way around. Local public radio stations pay NPR to air such programs as Morning Edition, All Things Considered, Car Talk, etc. The government entity that allocates tax dollars to local public radio and television stations across the country is the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, created in 1967 by President Johnson.

That said, perhaps VOR does not appreciate the use of his tax dollars to pay for this initiative. We can disagree on this. But the few pennies from my tax dollars going to this are well worth it. The funds from this grant will serve as seed money to hire new reporters at each of the participating stations, plus an editor based at WXXI, to cover economic issues. This money will not be going to pad executive salaries. The grant is creating new jobs for broadcast journalists at a time when commercial radio continues to cut back on its news departments. It enhances collaboration among several public radio stations, which is a key part of the initiative. And it takes advantage of the opportunties the web provides in enhancing radio stories. Hopefully, when the grant funding expires, each station will be in a position to retain their reporters through funding from corporate sources and listeners. The net result is that public radio journalism is stronger.

I don't know about the rest of you. But I consider this a wise use of my tax dollars as opposed to the myriad examples I found online (government credit cards paying for exotic dancers is one) of truly wasteful government spending.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

That said, perhaps VOR does not appreciate the use of his tax dollars to pay for this initiative. We can disagree on this. But the few pennies from my tax dollars going to this are well worth it. The funds from this grant will serve as seed money to hire new reporters at each of the participating stations, plus an editor based at WXXI, to cover economic issues. This money will not be going to pad executive salaries. The grant is creating new jobs for broadcast journalists at a time when commercial radio continues to cut back on its news departments. It enhances collaboration among several public radio stations, which is a key part of the initiative. And it takes advantage of the opportunties the web provides in enhancing radio stories. Hopefully, when the grant funding expires, each station will be in a position to retain their reporters through funding from corporate sources and listeners. The net result is that public radio journalism is stronger.

And what happens to those jobs when the grant money runs out, which it will? Now if more listeners and viewers would donate the their local public stations, the revenue would be there instead of depending on grants to fund programs.

 

[aaronread]

And what happens to those jobs when the grant money runs out, which it will? Now if more listeners and viewers would donate the their local public stations, the revenue would be there instead of depending on grants to fund programs.

That's one way to look at it, I suppose.

However, I believe the idea is that the grant money is being used to kick-start an initiative that will ultimately raise the value of the enterprise, and thus bring in more underwriting and fundraising dollars. In a commercial context, it'd be little different than investing in a start-up.

 

[TheBigA]

However, I believe the idea is that the grant money is being used to kick-start an initiative that will ultimately raise the value of the enterprise,

Or to train people in real life situations so they can use that experience to obtain employment in the commercial sector. It's an extension of the public education system.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

And what happens to those jobs when the grant money runs out, which it will? Now if more listeners and viewers would donate the their local public stations, the revenue would be there instead of depending on grants to fund programs.

That's one way to look at it, I suppose.

However, I believe the idea is that the grant money is being used to kick-start an initiative that will ultimately raise the value of the enterprise, and thus bring in more underwriting and fundraising dollars. In a commercial context, it'd be little different than investing in a start-up.

I hope you're right. However it is taking a huge gamble when depending on grant money. An engineer friend of mine at a local college is now unemployed because the grant money that funded the program he was working on ran out of money.

Personally if I were in a similar situation, I would be more comfortable having private sector funds rather than government/grant funding. Maybe that's just the capitalist nature in me.

 

[heydaybegone]

Mark G.
What I meant to say was..your comments DO reflect the thoughts of us passionate, yet frustrated types!
Also, I meant "retired?" Recently? ???
HDBG

 

[Mark Giardina]

Mark G.
What I meant to say was..your comments DO reflect the thoughts of us passionate, yet frustrated types!
Also, I meant "retired?" Recently? ???
HDBG

Retired (from broadcasting) as in full time. The Saturday "gig" is going on five years and who knows how long that will last?

 

[heydaybegone]

as in full time

Well alrighty...clarification!! (how many marriages would that save!! ;D)

BTW - it should last long into the the next whatever!! I understand Savage is a beast to work for/with. Cunning, and always nibbling at the right hand side of the decimal point to cut corners without raising eyebrows !!
Love ya RCS...we're all friends here and I know you can take a pitch as well as hit it out of the ball park!!

HDBG

 

[Mark Giardina]

I understand Savage is a beast to work for/with. Cunning, and always nibbling at the right hand side of the decimal point to cut corners without raising eyebrows

RCS has installed parking meters for employees to park at the station.

Plus he's raised the price for using the bathroom toilet.
$.50 now to open the stall door. :

 

[aaronread]

I hope you're right. However it is taking a huge gamble when depending on grant money. An engineer friend of mine at a local college is now unemployed because the grant money that funded the program he was working on ran out of money. Personally if I were in a similar situation, I would be more comfortable having private sector funds rather than government/grant funding. Maybe that's just the capitalist nature in me.

That's a reflection on management than on the funding mechanism. Theoretically, the grant money works the exact same way that investment money does; gets the enterprising going and lets it operate long enough so that it can raise its own funds to the point where it's self-sufficient. If the job disappears at the end of the grant...and assuming that wasn't always the plan from the get-go...either the idea wasn't viable enough in the marketplace or the management plan was flawed (or its execution was flawed).

That said, it's hardly uncommon for broadcast non-profits to get a huge grant and suddenly think the money will last forever...and they put too much time/effort/money into simply producing the show instead of figuring out how to make it last when the grant money runs out. Or worse, figuring that it'll be next to impossible to achieve that, and going ahead with the project anyways in the vain hope that things will somehow work out. I suppose sometimes it does, but most of the time it doesn't.

 

[heydaybegone]

That said, it's hardly uncommon for broadcast non-profits to get a huge grant and suddenly think the money will last forever...and they put too much time/effort/money into simply producing the show instead of figuring out how to make it last when the grant money runs out.

My, my...we have taken Americana to the non-coms? Agreement at 100% double AA!!! Looks very familiar to bail-out's ...no? I haven't decided if this is human nature in the biz world, or just plain ignorance (or my life experience..as long as it has now been...says otherwise ;D). I'm not sure 'ole George had this in mind when they put him on the dollar...but it sure makes for some "not show schmart" financial exchanges!!

I have experienced that...it takes longer to make it than to spend it....ERGO...when that booty check shows in the mail....HELLO!!! ;D

Just sayin.

HDBG

(FDIC insured disclaimer : as a commercial side passionate fool...I never had fond images of the non-coms...just because they could ASK for money- the rest of us busted hump to "earn" it)