WAMO, Hispanic stations - Pittsburgh ethnic composition

[davideduardo]

"But to require individuals and businesses to conduct thier affairs in only one language would not pass constitutional muster as it restricts freedom of speech. In additon, it would cost the US billions and billions in foreign trade, negotiations for which are more often conducted int he langauge of the buyer overseas." Making English the official language only means that all legal proceedings, such as contracts and legal announcements, must be in English to be legally binding in court. We wouldn't need all those bilingual signs everywhere. But, as for constitutionality, it has been noted that there is no constitutional right to have access to a piece of the electronic spectrum. Requiring that a station broadcasts the bulk of its programming in the official language of the country as a condition for satisfying the "serving the public interest" clause of the FCC licensing standards would probably pass constitutional muster, especially if the Supreme Court ruled on the law itself instead of attempting to legislate from the bench. If the FCC can put enough pressure on station owners to get Howard Stern to give up and move to satellite because of what he says on the air, they can do the same to get broadcasters to use English. "I can make reference to one of the older big Hispanic communities, Miami."Miami has a totally unique situation. The Cuban population of Miami is, for the most part, not immigrants planning to become American. The Cuban population of Miami and the rest of Florida see themselves as exiles waiting for Castro to die so that they can return home. According to my former brother-in-law, who was Cuban, the exiles in Florida generally regard going back to Cuba the way Jews used to regard someday moving back to Israel. So, they are not an example of any "typical" Hispanic sub-group. "All evidence supports the same rate of assimilation by Hispanics as seen with Italians, Germans, Poles, etc. And ther eis plenty of evidence."The evidence that I have seen includes second, third, and fourth generation Mexicans in Texas and the Southwest who either couldn't or wouldn't attempt to speak English. There were cities I've visited in Texas where I couldn't order a simple hamburger at a Burger King in English. The evidence I have seen is spokesman for "la raza" who demand that all of "Aztalan" be returned to "la raza". The evidence I have seen includes hordes of illegal aliens pouring across the border from Mexico.

Comñparing serving the audience that speaks and prefers Spanish with the audience that wants to hear Stern cuss and talk about Lesbian Dating is absurd. An "official language" is in place in much of the world's nations. Many have multiple offical languages, like Switzerland, Canada, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Bolivia, Philippines, etc. All such a declaration means is that the business of government may only be conducted in the official language(s). In no place that is remotely democratic does it restrict the press or the electronic media as to language. And, generally, the "business of government" applies to legislation, official acts, etc. But all can and do issue documents in other langauges for such purposes as tourism, industrial development, signage, etc. In fact, most nations use pictographic international signage just for that reason. Requiring stations to broadcast only in English does a great disservice to may Americans. In fact, the 8 million Puerto Ricans would be pretty irritated at that, especially in Puerto Rico, where 129 of 132 stations are in Spanish. I think it is totally unlikely that legislation or even the thought of such would be allowed to progress. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off on Miami. Miami has a higer percentage of Hispanic citizens than any other Hispanic community in the US. The only ones that might want to go back to Cuba are in thier 70's now. The second generation Cuban-Americans are highly bilingual, and would not even think of going to Cuba because they have a special community in Miami. 80% of the born in Cuba residents of Miami arrived between 1960 and 1975. The only other blip was about 100 thousand in 1980 in the Mariel Boatlift People who have lived 45 years in Miami are not leaving to go to a place they would not recognize or when they are too old to even move. There is no "Raza" organization. "Raza" is a street term that means "brotherhood" or even "common folks." It is a oose bond, not a formal one. The NCLR, which has "Raza" in its name, refers to the "Raza Cósmica" of vcaconcelos, a totally different concept. And the Aztlan thing is a hangover from the militant Chicanos of the 70's... Chicanos are not Mexicans... they are second or third generation or beyond Mexican Americans, most of whom don't speak Spanish at all or very well. In fact, the Aztlan concept calls for a Chicano state separate from both Mexico and the US. An immigrant from Mexico would not even know about this... it's a Chcano construct and not widely held even among Chicanos. Chicanos do not talk about "raza." So, you are totally wrong about both Miami and the Chicano and immigrant Mexican populations of the Southwest. And this would mean your conclusions are based on wrong data and false premises.

 

[davideduardo]

There are Latino self-identity differences among age, education and geographic regions as well...The younger and older males did not like the label "American"...

What is interesting is just how low the self-identity is with ``American''. It varies from a high of 16% (in Pennsylvania) to a range of merely 0-3% (Colorado and California). Terms such as ``Chicano'' and ``Mexicano'' were preferred, according to the study, over ``American''.Recalling the controversial KRCA-TV billboard of ``Los Angeles, Mexico'', I wonder how well a ``Pittsburgh, Poland'' billboard would have been received decades ago had WPIT opted to use that approach to advertise its ethnic fare?

One of the issues here is that, to anyone from Latin America, "American" means any person from North or South America. It does not mean someone from the United States of America, as the USA is called "Norteamérica" in Spanish, not "America." A US citizen is a "norteamericano." Or, more anecdotally, my school was called the Colegio Americano; it was in Quito, Ecuador. The "Americano" did not refer to the USA in any way. We also find that Hispanics don't often like the term Hispanic, or, even Latino. In LA, there are T Shirts that say (in Spanish) "I am not Hispanic. I am not Latino. I am Mexican." Anecdotally, again, I asked my daughters (both in their early 30's and one totally bilingual and the other polyglot) if they considered themselves Hispanic or Latinas. Both answered, "Neither. I am Puerto Rican. " So there is a definite tendency to want to be much more specific about origin or heritage than is common in the general non-Hispanic white population.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"to anyone from Latin America, "American" means any person from North or South America."To citizens of the United States of American, "American" means "citizen of the United States of American". And, since we're in the United States of America, our local rules apply. If people from Latin America want to use "American" to refer to anyone who lives on the continents of North or South America when in their own countries, more power to them. Here in the US, American means "citizen of the United States of America".

 

[davideduardo]

"to anyone from Latin America, "American" means any person from North or South America."To citizens of the United States of American, "American" means "citizen of the United States of American". And, since we're in the United States of America, our local rules apply. If people from Latin America want to use "American" to refer to anyone who lives on the continents of North or South America when in their own countries, more power to them. Here in the US, American means "citizen of the United States of America".

Where exactly is that "rule" written? In any case, whether it is convention or not, to people who grew up believing an American was NOT a person from the USA, it is hard to change, no matter how assimilated, how proficient in English and how willing they are to be part of the US in general. Things hammered into you in early childhood and grade school are almost hard wired, which is why you will find very few first generation naturalized immigrants from Latin America referring to themselves as "Americans." If I am asked directly, in English, I will say, "Yes" to the question of being "American." But otherwise, I will say I am from the United States.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"it is hard to change"Maybe so, but that's what moving to the United States in order to become an American takes. If anyone isn't up to the task, they have my sympathy. And I'll give them any assistance I can in returning to where they came from if they can't handle it here.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

"Nowhere in the FCC rules does it say one must serve the community interests IN ENGLISH."Then the FCC rules need to be changed. "There have been foreign language publications since before the Revolutionary War. Radio and the electronic media found long ago that there were communities that could be profitably served that did not necessarily want programming in English. WOV and WHOM in New York programmed in Italian. Several stations around Fall River programmed in Portuguese... and this was in the 40's and 50's. In Cleveland, the first two profitable FMs were 100% ethnic, with blocks in Czech, Polish, Italian, German, Greek, and other languages of the huge ethnic communities of Cleveland." But those examples are of entrepeneurs serving the needs of people who were working towards assimilating and becoming Americans, including learning to speak English. At no time was this nation in danger of being split into two separate nations, an American population that speaks English, and an Hispanic population that speaks Spanish. America will not be well served by becoming bilingual. "it is ingenuous to blame JUST the illegals for thier presence here. And, illegal or not, once here most behave just like legal residents."I blame everyone who had a hand in creating the problem. I blame everyone who persists in continuing the problem. I blame everyone who refuses to see the problem for what it is. The issue now isn't to determine who to blame, it is to determine how to arrest and deport those who are in this country illegally. I have spent too much time in parts of the United States where people whose ancestors have lived here for several generations still can't (or won't) speak English. Pleasant platitudes about the second generations learning English and how to assimilate sound good, but real world observations indicate that those anecdotes are not accurate. "And they have the protection of our legal system because they are people."I agree. We should give them fair trials with competant lawyers before they are deported.

I like the disinformation going on here, it's really quite pleaseant. I guess I get to be the bull in the china shop here and say this is nothing short of racist. If you are white and serving a group in a foreign language , then you are an entrepreneur, but if you are serving a Spanish speaking community, then you are doing a disservice to the country. And as for assimilating or refusing to, I post this piece from the Washington Post this week that argues that Hispanics are in fact assimilating faster than their European conterparts.Blending In, Moving UpBy Tyler Cowen and Daniel M. RothschildMonday, June 12, 2006; Page A21Beneath the surface of the immigration debate is a debate about shared values. If we look at just three of those values -- the English language, family and hard work -- we see a higher level of Latino assimilation than is often presumed.Despite claims to the contrary, census data show that most Latino immigrants learn and speak English quite well. Only about 2.5 percent of American residents speak Spanish but not English. The majority of residents of Spanish-speaking households speak English "very well."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100922.html

[EDIT=copyright infringement. Pasted link to article]

 

[Radio_Realist]

"I guess I get to be the bull in the china shop here and say this is nothing short of racist. If you are white and serving a group in a foreign language , then you are an entrepreneur, but if you are serving a Spanish speaking community, then you are doing a disservice to the country."As I point out before, Spain is a country in Europe. The people who come from Spain are just as much White Europeans as the people who come from Italy, Greece, Germany, or Norway. And, this isn't about offering a smorgasbord of individual programs of one or two hours each for a variety of different foreign cultures, this is about programming in a foreign language 24/7.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

And it's about whether or not, by broadcasting in Spanish, those stations are serving a community interest. Just because it isn't my community interest, doesn't mean they aren't serving one. I am agnostic, yet there are plenty of religious broadcasters out there, they aren't serving my community interest either, yet I am not going to say that they shouldn't be part of the bandwidth, regardless of how offensive I may find their programming to be, I just won't listen. And your anecdotes aside, the numbers don't bear out your argument that Spanish speaking immigrants go out of their way to not assimilate here, or that they go out of their way to not learn English. Rather, you have a new wave of immigrants that are embracing the "American dream" through a desire to be here, a large amount of hard work and even through their blood, as almost 20% of our current armed forces currently have a Latino background. Yet rather than offer these immigrants a seat at the table, people who are citizens of this country only because they are lucky enough to be born here criticize their efforts because some Latinos enjoy listening to radio done in their native language, and some entrepreneurs have recognized this and created a radio format for them.

 

[Radio_Realist]

"Yet rather than offer these immigrants a seat at the table, people who are citizens of this country only because they are lucky enough to be born here criticize their efforts because some Latinos enjoy listening to radio done in their native language, and some entrepreneurs have recognized this and created a radio format for them."There is a world of difference between "some" people who cling to the language of the country that they supposedly left behind, and the situation in large parts of the United States where an English speaking American cannot order a meal or buy a package of chewing gum in a store because no one speaks English. There is a world of difference between a situation where the percentage of the population in an ethnic group that still needs to work on learning English is decreasing compared to a situation where non-English speaking non-citizens are outnumbering English speaking Americans by an ever-increasing number. The overall national interest is not well served by using the public airwaves to perpetuate a non-English speaking alien population within the country, even if it is profitable for some entrepreneurs.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

Who said these stations perpetuate anything, besides you with another non factually backed anecdote? All they do is offer another listening option, and thus in certain communities serve a community interest. Nowhere is any station required to serve a national interest, and if they were, there would be a lot less radio stations period, because many stations, whether broadcasting in English, Spanish, German, or Chinese, wouldn't be deemed to be serving a national interest. The Census data shows that Latinos assimilate as fast if not faster than their Euorpean counterparts, so the argument isn't even whether they assimilate, but whether it is fast enough for you, and guess what, nobody cares if it is fast enough for you.