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WARM--ANYONE INTERESTED IN BRINGING WARMLAND BACK????

Like a vision for reviving a great AM station...this thread just won't die. Go to war, Miss Agnes, ain't the beer cold!

Thanks to Ray Thomas, who I've not met but consider to be one of the more astute broadcasters in the business today. Many mutual acquaintances of both Ray and I attest to that.

WARM's ground radials are shot, other issues exist with the audio system, and the present owner doesn't seem to be motivated to do a whole lot about it.

With the understanding of those obstacles, is there at present enough 'decent' signal in the immediate metro area to make the station listenable? If so...then you can succeed.

You need dedicated and creative salespeople who are connected in the market, seasoned on-air pros who understand the appeal of AM and know how to communicate (no card readers or voice trackers here), and all hands on board need to work 'above and beyond' the expected to promote the product on the air and on the street.

And then there's the people you need to please the most. The listeners. Don't underestimate their intelligence. In a sea of lazily-programmed and under-performing FM's, a station like WARM will stand out and have appeal more than you might think. Make it 'live' and make it 'local'. The Mighty 590 can make it happen.

Regardless of how it turns out...you'd have a heckuva lot of fun trying.

Is it an uphill climb? Yes it is, but not a hopeless one. Folks like to root for the underdog...and WARM could with its tremendous heritage really make some noise again up there in coal country.
 
Don't forget engineering. I have ideas on how to fix that signal piece by piece, although I won't discuss them in a public forum. I did rebuild the transmitter a couple of years ago after it decided to self-immolate and a previous owner was ready to let WARM stay dark.

Yes, restoring WARM will be a LOT of work...but I am up to the task.
 
ka2xuk,

I think you are just upset at the owner of WARM because the let you go and that's why you want to buy WARM and fix it. Like I said we have to put this a sleep.
 
Roger, you don't think it can be done. Message received. If you keep repeating it (as you have been) I think you might be the one with an issue here. Find another thread already. We get it.
 
Having talked to another engineer that worked at WARM for almost 10 years as CE, repairs were made on the ground system into the mid/late 90's, including some made by myself at the tower bases. Thats why the tractor was still in the basement of the place as some copper for the radials. At this point though, the ground system would probably have to be fully replaced. WHEW!!!
 
I'm sure this can be done and 590khz can be fixed (at a steep price), but it seems people on this board are confusing 590 and WARM. Listeners didn't care that WARM was on 590am, they just wanted to hear their favorite radio station. The whole problem with this ongoing thread is that the people posting here want to combine the two issues (the format and the frequency). How many people who watch WNEP realize they are watching Newswatch 16 on UHF channel 50? Or that WVIA is really UHF channel 41? More importantly, how many of those viewers care? Hint: they don't, because most people viewing both those stations aren't even watching over-the-air, but instead are watching on cable, because all they want is the product the station produces (and they want it in color (FM), not black and white (AM). The only people who seem to care that WARM be resurrected specifically on 590 are the people posting on this board.

I found a study from 1991 showing AM listening at about 22% and FM 78%. Yes, it was that bad 21 years ago. What do those figures look like now?

I like Coca-cola: it comes in cans, plastic bottles, through a soda fountain, but no longer in glass bottles, why? Because technology moved on. I really don't care if I buy cans or bottles, I just want a cold coke. The folks who make Coca-Cola are not going to buy an old glass factory, fix it up, and sell it in glass bottles (unless a special occasion or limited edition).


What should have happened back in 1985 was that 92.9 should have been WARM-FM but back then (if I remember correctly) the FCC wouldn't let AM/FM simulcasts of overlapping signals unless the stations served a small population (as was the case with WHLM FM106/AM55). Buy that is water over the dam, and WARM was damned to 590am when the rest of the world was moving to FM.

I've read people say that if a resurrected 590 were run 'lean and mean' then WARM could be successful. It seems they are alot of DJs who want to do a shift (which is great) but WARM was much much more than DJs: it was a fully staffed sports department, and fully staffed news department, and all the bells and whistles. If these are not included in the new WARM then it won't be WARM at all, but instead folks having fun spinning oldies.

I've posted before that I really hope it happens, but I'm afraid lots of talent, good intentions (and possibly hard earned money) are going to be put into a non-starter: 590khz.

Does anyone who has posted here have a ballpark figure at to the cost of fixing the tranmission facility in Falls? I people are going to raise this amount of money I'm sure you can find an FM instead, to either lease, or possibly buy. After all, if you think WARM would be successful on 590 then it would surely be so on an FM.

Why not approach someone at Bold Gold: 94.3 is not achieving anything like the numbers it used to get, and simulcasting A NEW WARM on 1340/1400/1440 would help, along with the 100.9 translator near Nanticoke. Bob V used to do Oldies on 93.7/94.3. The missing piece of the puzzle would not be 590khz but the WARM call sign (anything is for sale at the right price).

Give WARM a real chance. Don't make the mistake of WWKB KB1520 when it was resurrected a few years back (with many of the same great personalities of WKBW) only to ultimately fail miserably. Why did it fail? Because today is 2012.
 
NXEA,

Every good points. I hear the people running WFTE are not going a good job. A FM would be better. There is one thing there is WARM FM.
 
Roger said:
NXEA,

Every good points. I hear the people running WFTE are not going a good job. A FM would be better. There is one thing there is WARM FM.
Click to expand...

I can't comment on WFTE as I haven't listened to it except for 5 minutes of syndicated program they had on. As far as WARM-FM: This came about when Susquehanna (which owned both 590 WARM and 103.3 WSBA-FM York) decided to change WSBA-FM to 'Warm' 103, hence WARM-FM. Cumulus now owns both 590 WARM and 103.3 WARM-FM, but they dropped the moniker 'Warm' 103 and instead the station is now called 'Wink' 103 (to match Cumulus owned Wink 104 WNNK) even though the call sign is still WARM-FM. When 590 WARM was briefly on 97.1 Mountaintop (now WBHT) it was WYRM but you only heard those call letters mentioned at the top of the hour.

These things do happen though: 930am WBEN Buffalo (Owned by Entercom who own KRZ) is simulcast on 107.7fm WLKK Wethersfield Twp but you never hear any mention of WLKK except at the top of the hour. They gave permission to Greater Media to put the WBEN-FM call sign on 95.7fm Philadelphia (95.7 Ben-FM).

750am WSB Atlanta is simulcast 95.5fm WSBB, but the station is known on air as 750am 95.5fm 'WSB.' The real WSB-FM is also in Altanta but is known only as B98.5. Same with San Francisco: 740 KCBS is simulcast on 106.9 KFRC-FM but the station is known as 740am 106.9fm KCBS, but the real KCBS-FM is in Los Angeles called '93.1 Jack FM'

Maybe the option would be to downgrade 590 (if this is possible) to allow a much much less expensive way of getting the transmission facility fixed (less towers, less copper radials, etc), but also simulcast on 1340/1400/1440/94.3/100.9 and any other translators you can get a hold of to have the maximum coverage area as possible. This scenario though looks strangely familiar: Gem 104 is doing just this: Two AMs (1460 WGMF / 730 WZMF) and a bunch of FM translators, and it has worked. Gem does reasonably well in the book.

Looking back it is a damn shame that WARM was left to rot. We could have had the Mighty 590 and 92.9FM, WARM: A killer AM and FM combo that would have been untouchable with the best FM and best AM signals in the market. Back then though you had the problem of WARM on 97.1 and Magic on 92.9, and it was this scenario that killed WARM as 97.1 was not supposed to compete with 92.9.
 
Roger said:
Bold Gold does not want to sell 1340, 1400, 1440, and 94.3.

Like I said we have to put this to sleep.
Click to expand...

I never suggested Bold Gold sell any of its stations, but if those stations I mentioned are not performing to their potential then maybe they (or any owner for that matter with any under-performing signal) might be interested in a format flip, or at least open to some ideas about how to improve the stations they own.

I personally don't think spending a load of dosh on fixing the 5 tower array for 590khz makes sense, but what I have tried to do is lay out what I think of the whole idea, and if there is any other way that WARM could be brought back the would be more economically feasible, spelling out the concept of WARM as format rather than a place on the dial.

Out of curiosity, did you ever listen to WARM when it was worth listening to? I did, for many years as a kid then teenager, and wish it was with us today as it was back then.

By constantly repeating 'we have to put this to sleep' doesn't add anything to the conversation. If you want to put the idea to sleep then back up your argument with evidence that clearly spells out why the idea should be put to sleep. There is nothing wrong with people dreaming big dreams; if everyone put every big dream to sleep then we would be back in the stone age.
 
NXEA said:
Roger said:
Bold Gold does not want to sell 1340, 1400, 1440, and 94.3.

Like I said we have to put this to sleep.
Click to expand...

I never suggested Bold Gold sell any of its stations, but if those stations I mentioned are not performing to their potential then maybe they (or any owner for that matter with any under-performing signal) might be interested in a format flip, or at least open to some ideas about how to improve the stations they own.

I personally don't think spending a load of dosh on fixing the 5 tower array for 590khz makes sense, but what I have tried to do is lay out what I think of the whole idea, and if there is any other way that WARM could be brought back the would be more economically feasible, spelling out the concept of WARM as format rather than a place on the dial.

Out of curiosity, did you ever listen to WARM when it was worth listening to? I did, for many years as a kid then teenager, and wish it was with us today as it was back then.

By constantly repeating 'we have to put this to sleep' doesn't add anything to the conversation. If you want to put the idea to sleep then back up your argument with evidence that clearly spells out why the idea should be put to sleep. There is nothing wrong with people dreaming big dreams; if everyone put every big dream to sleep then we would be back in the stone age.
Click to expand...
as ive said many times before, there isnt an am or fm station in this market worth tuning in too. programing sucks, talent isnt happening, they are interns, or people who have no clue of what they are doing. so you can dump all the money, and time and free airtime you want. it wont help. maybe we should put all radio to sleep..and that goes for local tv too..i love radio and tv, but in the last few years it has gone down the toilet. bad audio, people talking over one another..know voice control or common sense, know sense in timing,competitive sponsors back to back, or for talk radio, not knowing the science of how to get calls, and or imput from new callers. local talk show hosts with their own click of people. maybe we should go back to the stone age..or at least to the time of johnny foster,jones evans, joe scott, dick whitaker, bob caroll, jerry baum,jim ward. just to name a few. radio and tv should be interesting, and entertaining, but most important.informational....today..its boring..and annoying..
 
I can tell you that is very hard to pick up in a car up in Hamlin and Lake Ariel. I never know of WARM until a few years ago. By the in Albany WROW Magic 590 is use the mighty 590.
 
Having been program director of WARM for an ephemeral moment in the late 80's, I have a soft spot in my heart for this station. And I share the wistfulness of many here for those wonderful AM giants of days gone by.

Have any radio account executives participated in this discussion? A successful radio AE would have some cogent observations about the viability of a reborn Warmland. Once they stopped laughing.

Let's say you had a pristene signal on 590 and a "lean and mean" airstaff (read "working for next to nothing for nostalgia's sake") - echoing the golden days of this radio station. There is no real prospect of generating any kind of meaningful billing on Warmland 2.0.

Selling local radio ads, even on a middle-of-the-pack FM, is a really tough gig. I did it for 5 years and can say that with authority. This station's listenership would be minimal. Even those who fondly remember the Mighty 590 wouldn't care. Local retailers would not invest scarce ad dollars on a house-of-cards Ancient Modulation advertising vehicle. To think otherwise is just fantasy.

I concur with the poster above that an off-the-air iteration of the "WARM" brand would be more realistic. Start one up on Live365, publicize it locally, and the people who actually cared would find it.

Nick Seneca
 
Fix the transmitter and ground system, construct a studio, hire an air staff, news people, sales people, vehicles, office staff, promotion, and play music that attracts an older demographic. It all adds up to a financial pit. It's time to move on. You're better off taking all your money and burning it in the street.
 
Closing in on 6000 hits (10 from Roger :- ) , this thread is certainly proof that dreams still are plentiful.

Along with memories.

The fine contributions from NXEA have managed to separate the dreams and the memories.

* * * * * * *

That notion of placing the protoype on the Internet first is terrific. You get around hassles such as the ground system, the rent, the electric bills, the debt load, the initial paucity of sponsors, the cost of coffee in the employee cafeteria, and other up-front expenses.

THEN you approach some of these places like 1400 and basement-dweller FMs -- after the finished product or an approximate facsimile is established. 'Here's your programming.'

The Internet may not be the answer, either. I know most of the people who in 1999 started an internet oldies station on Long Island called Metro Radio. These guys and gals had a terrific sounding place. But their vision was limited to selling advertising to Internet listeners, not to clueless radio companies.

Hy Lit's son and the Hy Lit Radio stream is a fantastic listen ....a good mix of national super-hits plus a wonderful dose of Philly Phavorites. But to my knowledge, no terrestrial station rebroadcasts it or otherwise carries it yet.

Yet again, it makes sense to me to start that way -- with a website. That WARM product is what's going to be offered, after all, right? When that's in place, then there's a tangibility.

You folks initially will wind up with more radio geeks and submarine-race watchers than actual listeners -- and maybe for a long and uncomfortable while. But it's logical to try it that way first, isn't it? Rather than spend all that money on a flippin ground system? And then have to door-hang half your flyers in cemeteries? And then wind up with the youngest groupie calling in at age 67?

I may be blurring the distinction again ; the one that NXEA unravelled so well in his posts ; me confusing the 590 signal with the idea. But I think a 590 substance has to be defined first.
 
I like the idea of a new WARM with live local talent.
Just sayin.
It could be a mixed bag of programming. Some oldies, some talk, some new stuff.
The people in Portsmouth NH have really taken to their LPFM, WSCA 106.1, and it's a measley 100 watts.
Original programming (to put it mildly), but it's a hit because it's "real".
I think live local radio has a future, and WARM could be the way to do it.
Just my two cents.
 
NXEA said:
As far as WARM-FM: This came about when Susquehanna (which owned both 590 WARM and 103.3 WSBA-FM York) decided to change WSBA-FM to 'Warm' 103, hence WARM-FM.
Click to expand...

A bit of history: The original WARM-FM in Scranton operated on 93.7 with 19 kW ERP, transmitting from the top of West Mountain. It was on the air in the early 1950s. Management killed that station back then because they thought that FM would never amount to anything. FM receivers were quite expensive and the programming was generally not that appealing: simulcasts of AM stations, sleepy elevator music, or classical music.

The existing station on 93.7 (WSJR) was a drop-in from Docket 80-90. It is a Class A licensed to Dallas. It cannot increase power due to short-spacing to WSTW in Wilmington, Delaware.

More recently, "Warm" became a brand used by Susquehanna for its adult contemporary stations, including the one in York. Call letters of such stations became WARM-FM (York), WRRM, WWRM, etc. Cumulus now owns that brand.
 
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