The all Christmas programming has been put back on the shelf until next year. WARM and THE ROSE are back to business as usual and the critics have become silent for now. There has been alot of trash talking about these two stations. I go out of town on occasion and hear other stations similar to these two. I feel that both of them have a decent grasp on what AC should sound like today. The ratings don't translate because they cancel each other out to some degree. They have the same coverage area. the towers are a stone's throw from each other. There are some on this board who feel that because they aren't pullin' 10 shares that it is because of the programming. Maybe they are too close to each other in format as well as location. I don't feel either station sounds bad. They are both pretty much state of the art AC for 2010. I know that some don't like Pink or Katy Perry....but these are some of the artists on the national chart. I think THE ROSE is brighter, but is WARM catching up? Let's let some of the armchair PDs weigh in on this. Can the overall market support two ACs. Remember...there are a couple of rimshot ACs....WQIC and WQLV....that are out there as well.
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WARM VS THE ROSE
- Thread starter bossjock 56
- Start date
J
John-Summers
Guest
There's one factor you didn't mention, Bossjock: MIX 106.7. While not a true AC, as they don't play currents, MIX likely pulls at least some audience from the two stations mentioned, especially the upper demos. WSOX may take a bit here and there too. If MIX has only a couple of shares in York and Lancaster, those are shares that might be going to WARM or the Rose were MIX not in the picture.
Good point John! This may be the reason WLEV in Allentown has problems. While they don't have direct AC competition, they have Classic Hits(The Hawk) pulling from the male side and CHR(B 104) taking some of the females. There may be alot of other factors at play in Lancaster and York as well. FM97 and The Peak are a couple stations that come to mind. In Harrisburg, AC stations never seem to get off the ground with Wink taking a good chunk of the females with Hot AC, and The River taking alot of males.
I don't listen to WARM so I can't comment on them. I have heard the Rose on a few occasions, and maybe I know too much about them, but for my opinion and the Arbitron's I have seen, they have been going downhill since they let Tom Shannon go, he built that station and they should beg him to come back and fix it.
Over the past year, the Rose has been the more contemporary of the two stations. No doubt. WARM is trying to play "catch up" in that area. I know both stations play Pink; it's not so much the artist, just the right songs by the artist. Can't comment on Katy Perry. Hot & Cold has proven to be a major A/C hit though.
Interesting, these are both supposedly "Mainstream A/C" radio stations. But both stations have totally abandoned the 70s. If you travel around the mid Atlantic as much as I do, listening to Philly, NYC, DC, and Baltimore stations that are A/C, they still include some 70s product. Part of the variety that makes A/C special.
Mix 106.7 is a Classic Hits station. Really shouldn't be in the discussion about WARM & Rose at all. In a discussion with 98.5 the Peak and WSOX yes. Listening to Mix and hearing "You Keep Me Hanging On" by Vanilla Fudge totally takes it out of any A/C discussion as far as I'm concerned. I know two former WARM personalities are on the station but that doesn't make it A/C because of the talent.
WARM has another unique issue. The name. Station doesn't sound so "warm" anymore. And, like it or not, the name is forever tied to Kelly West. The station has put Kelly in the rear view mirror and perhaps the name needs to be also be put there.
Interesting, these are both supposedly "Mainstream A/C" radio stations. But both stations have totally abandoned the 70s. If you travel around the mid Atlantic as much as I do, listening to Philly, NYC, DC, and Baltimore stations that are A/C, they still include some 70s product. Part of the variety that makes A/C special.
Mix 106.7 is a Classic Hits station. Really shouldn't be in the discussion about WARM & Rose at all. In a discussion with 98.5 the Peak and WSOX yes. Listening to Mix and hearing "You Keep Me Hanging On" by Vanilla Fudge totally takes it out of any A/C discussion as far as I'm concerned. I know two former WARM personalities are on the station but that doesn't make it A/C because of the talent.
WARM has another unique issue. The name. Station doesn't sound so "warm" anymore. And, like it or not, the name is forever tied to Kelly West. The station has put Kelly in the rear view mirror and perhaps the name needs to be also be put there.
FM97 is also a factor in the AC ratings war there. They still have enough music overlap with The Rose, WARM, and sometimes Mix. Agreed that Mix is farther away then the others AC wise. Probably as far back as Sox.
I agree FM97 is a factor. What we have is a log jam. So many stations competing for that coveted 25-54 demo. AC, Hot AC, and CHR sharing alot of the same music. Classic Hits, Greatest Hits, Rock AC and Classic Rock sharing some similar titles as well. Country can target both males and females, but there is no lacking of Country in the area....at least New Country. Maybe a Classic Country on FM might fill a nitch. It would prorbably need to play some current hits as well...but only the ones that fit in. That's right...no Taylor Swift.
The ratings are out for Harrisburg and York. Who got the bump from all Christmas music? NOBODY! It seems that in other markets, AC stations that went all Christmas got that seasonal bounce. I guess the GRINCH has moved into Central Pa. Lancaster numbers are still to come. Stay tuned!
I expect Lancaster to come up Roses as far as Christmas goes.
But as far as York & Harrisburg goes, the ultra vanilla station...WARM...was the ultra vanilla Christmas station. Nothing memorable at all in what the station did this year. For the first time, it looks like WARM & Rose cancelled each other out.
Since we folks only see the 12 plus #s, the facts are the facts: WARM had a 7.1 last fall. This year, a 4.8.
In these other markets where the A/C's shined, there was generally only one station doing Christmas.
Also, it looks like the station that goes out it's way to tell you that they DON'T play all Christmas music...Mix 106.7..also fell flat.
The other station in the market that played an abundance of Christmas music...WNNK...scored well again. Interesting, set up the songs with some nice imaging/jingles, and just play the songs served WNNK well. Nice job. Just why eventually if Cumulus wants to straighten out the mess they have in York, O;Dea will be in charge of all programming.
But as far as York & Harrisburg goes, the ultra vanilla station...WARM...was the ultra vanilla Christmas station. Nothing memorable at all in what the station did this year. For the first time, it looks like WARM & Rose cancelled each other out.
Since we folks only see the 12 plus #s, the facts are the facts: WARM had a 7.1 last fall. This year, a 4.8.
In these other markets where the A/C's shined, there was generally only one station doing Christmas.
Also, it looks like the station that goes out it's way to tell you that they DON'T play all Christmas music...Mix 106.7..also fell flat.
The other station in the market that played an abundance of Christmas music...WNNK...scored well again. Interesting, set up the songs with some nice imaging/jingles, and just play the songs served WNNK well. Nice job. Just why eventually if Cumulus wants to straighten out the mess they have in York, O;Dea will be in charge of all programming.
As we all wait for Lancaster numbers, I've been thinking about who I think will get the Christmas bounce for the land of the Amish. My prediction......WDAC. During this period, when they played music....it was Christmas. I think that gave them a bounce on Fall '08.
J
John-Summers
Guest
It's 5pm and the winner is...NOT the Rose. Not much 12+ Christmas bounce at all. WARM fared even worse. It's a nice up book for WIOV though, and a spectacular jump for WDAC. Seltzer, you nailed it. Only in Lancaster County!
Hard to believe what has become of 101.3!..
AND 92.7?...How long can that continue?
With the electric rates about to go thru the roof, I think I might just turn that one off!
AND 92.7?...How long can that continue?
With the electric rates about to go thru the roof, I think I might just turn that one off!
101.3 is certainly performing better than WARM in Lancaster. But admittedly this was not a great Christmas year in Central PA. Un;ike the rest of America, where Christmas performed pretty well.
Not mentioned was the tumble of WSOX. That's not so insignificant either.
Let the "format" rumors concerning WARM begin again.
Tick...tock...tick tock...tick..tock....
Not mentioned was the tumble of WSOX. That's not so insignificant either.
Let the "format" rumors concerning WARM begin again.
Tick...tock...tick tock...tick..tock....
WDAC won the Christmas battle!
Actually we were in celebratory mode today. I posted this in an earlier thread but will repeat it here...12 plus numbers do not tell the whole story. In fact it is TARGET DEMOS that matter most to advertisers. The Rose targets Women 25-54. We are not allowed to get in to specifics, per Arbitron, on this discussion board. However in Lancaster the station has double digits in virtually all dayparts. The night show has tripled the ratings of the previous night show.
I am surprised that radio veterans who post on this board do not seem to note that in their posts.
Our entire staff works very hard and I am proud to be part of the team there.
I am surprised that radio veterans who post on this board do not seem to note that in their posts.
Our entire staff works very hard and I am proud to be part of the team there.
It's time to re-tool the WARM staff starting with upper management.
Hey Radio Babe. You really seem to have a wild hair somewhere against Hall. I am curious, when did Hall fire you and from which market of theirs?
Ronnie is correct! We don't know the whole story. Most of us on this board have only the 12 plus numbers to go by. I've always felt that The Rose was well programmed toward their target demo, and yes....women 25-54 do like Katy Perry, Pink, and some of the other artists that some of the "old schoolers" might find odd. If you think in terms of soccer mom's in their 30's, this would make sense. I couldn't imagine a female in this age group listening to Barry Manilow, Bread, Barbra and Neil.....I think you get my drift. WARM likely targets the same demo. There lies the problem...they cancel each other out. We don't know how WARM did in that demo, but a 2.9 12 plus in Lancaster tells me something. Start looking for a format hole. Cumulus just flipped an AC to country in Danbury Ct. While there's a lot of Country competition in Lancaster and York, there's enough country listenership to probably support another. There may be some available CHR shares available in York as well. With any new format, if would have to be well researched and done right. With competition already in place, it wouldn't be worth the expense to get a 4 or 5 share.....but SOMETHING has got to give. FM talk is another option. WSBA AM and FM? It would save money!
Congrats Ronnie. That's great news, especially concerning nights.
One only needs to go to the Rose website to see how busy everyone is. And the street effort, especially in York, has certainly been noticed.
Imagine a rectangle. One side is music, one side is promotions/marketing, one side is personality/mornings, and one side is "surprise" or " the unknown" Take the four sides and compare WARM & The Rose in each area. Does WARM win ANY of the sides anymore?
I think the answer is a resounding no. And this has nothing to do with Cumulus corporate. Why is WNNK such a stronger station than WARM?
It's the managemnet..both upper and programming. WNNK would do very well against Rose in the comparison.
You reap what you sow. And Cumulus/York management is getting their just due. It's only a matter of time before Cumulus corporate catches on. Then, and only then, will the real heads roll that need to. Tick...tock....tick....tock. It's coming.....
One only needs to go to the Rose website to see how busy everyone is. And the street effort, especially in York, has certainly been noticed.
Imagine a rectangle. One side is music, one side is promotions/marketing, one side is personality/mornings, and one side is "surprise" or " the unknown" Take the four sides and compare WARM & The Rose in each area. Does WARM win ANY of the sides anymore?
I think the answer is a resounding no. And this has nothing to do with Cumulus corporate. Why is WNNK such a stronger station than WARM?
It's the managemnet..both upper and programming. WNNK would do very well against Rose in the comparison.
You reap what you sow. And Cumulus/York management is getting their just due. It's only a matter of time before Cumulus corporate catches on. Then, and only then, will the real heads roll that need to. Tick...tock....tick....tock. It's coming.....
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