Wasted 50KW AM Signals

[davideduardo]

I remember visting my grandfather in his midtown Manhattan apartment in 1968. All the big NYC stations came in loud and clear. Granted it was 40 years ago, but the noise levels can't have increased that much over the years. Urban canyons like that have always been radio hell.

Back then, the FCC actually enforsed RFI rules, obligated power companies to clean noisy lines and insulators, etc. And that was before we had computers, domestic devices with computer chips in them, CFLs, dimmers, and all manner of other devices and contraptions that emit noise on the lower freqencies.

The noise levels, in the opinion of engineers I've talked with, is many orders of magnitude greater than back in the 60's.

But since AM listening is dying, does it matter anymore?

Not really, but that is a different subject altogether. All the noise and the low fidelity and the crowding of the band have together contributed to this, too.

I take it that folks in Argentina are still listening to AM more than they are in the US and Canada.

Yeah, to some extent. But Buenos Aires has a dozen... actually, 14 fulltime 50 kw stations, none directional. No US market has that many decent signals. In fact, a major industry analyst and appraiser believes that there are only about 200 viable AMs in the whole top 100 US markets, and many markets don't have a single one.

As you've said many times, AM is dying and those stations that move to FM do better. In the case of the three stations you mention above, the move is necessary. WTOP doesn't cover the DC metro. Don't know about KIRO - is that a case of Bonneville moving all their major AM talkers to FM over the next few years (like WTOP and KTAR)?

KIRO, 50 kw on 710, is an excellent signal. But the better broadcasters believe AM has no relevance to listeners under 50... and the bad signals and noise and poor audio quality is at the root of this problem.

WIBC was on one of only four reasonably-full-market AM stations, and 1070 is highly directional at night. I grew up in the area (Bloomington) and can tell you that Indy has been a predominately FM market since the late '60s.

Actully, Indianapolis did not achieve an FM majority in listening until about 1978, a year later than the nation as an average. And there is very little radio listening at night, and WIBC covers the metro well enough at night to do well... its problem is not directionality, it is that it was an AM. They had comparable day and night audience shares, but the listeners were pretty much all over 55.

David, make up your mind. You've said repeatedly that AM is dying, and only old folks bother with it anymore. So why push for a power increase, even if it's only for the 25-or-so Class A stations that are still viable AM-ers?

I'm not pushing for a power increase. I gave an example of why a power decrease, as suggested in an earlier post, is inconceivable in today's noisy environment. There are still profitable and useful AMs, but neutering them by reduced power will just finish destroying the band.

Now, we'll use David's argument that power needs to be increased to 100 kW or more.

Nowhere did I suggest this.

There is nothing that can be done with power changes, reallocation or whatever for AM. We have two generations that grew up with no habit of AM usage, and soon there will be nobody at all who remembers when AM was all there was.

 

[trusty]

Lessseeee.... When AM broadcasting began, (almost) every station was put on 833kHz.

And then the power increases started. The "band" was packed.

Funny how history repeats itself...

 

[radioman148]

Indeed it does.

 

[SCMcKinney]

How about this? If a station wants to have a 50KW status, they have to program only unique content, that is no syndicated programming. Otherwise, the 50KW goes to the highest bidder, and the winner trades power (or frequency) with the now former blowtorch. This would weed out the corporate loss leader stations and allow for a return to the public of local interest broadcasters.

 

[Prais]

With all due respect, SM, what a horrible idea. sound like the rest of the Dems in office now. "We know whts best for you." What bs.

WHO is elected the "boss" of programs. WHY would anybody who owns a station continue?

 

[SCMcKinney]

A constant refrain I hear on Radio-Info and other boards is how 'Radio owners ain't what they used to be', that radio is "boring and is losing the younger demos", and "what can be done to reinvigorate the industry."

I would submit that there are a lot of wasted 50KW signals, and a lot of wasted signals, period. Thanks to the removal of ownership caps back in the 90's, there is no real incentive for the oligopoly that owns the most desirable sticks in any given town to do anything other than that which is best for the "cluster". In NYC and other cities there are numerous signals that are being sat on simply because the owners can.

Broadcasting ought to be something that serves the public interest. After all, they are the PUBLIC airwaves, licensed to a commercial entity to serve the public and make a buck in the process. 50KW service ought to be regarded as special permission from the people to reach a large swath of the public. If a broadcaster does not want to be the creator of unique programming, they ought to be willing to trade with someone who does.

For those who say it can't be done, I suggest you look at 650 WSM or 700 WLW. Virtually all of their programming is original content. For that matter all of 880 WCBS is original, as would be most all-new stations - that is broadcasting in the public service.

Thinking about my original post, I could agree that SOME syndicated programming might be necessary for smaller markets; Rush IS an intregal part to many big stations. So perhaps it ought to be mandated that a 50KW would have 75% of their broadcast day devoted to original programming - a live body is speaking into their very own microphone. That would allow for popular national programs to play during the most profitable day parts. But I bet it would bring a return to some innovative ideas at night; at least something more intriguing than everybody running the same flying saucer guy on Art Bell. It could also be the training ground for the next generation of broadcasters that I have heard decried no longer exists.

And remember on this idea, nobody is being told what to broadcast. If they really want to run 24 hour syndication, they can, just not at 50KW. That is reserved for original thinker programmers. And I ask anyone who reads this, if your station was given the opportunity to be a 1AClear, would you?

 

[elchupacabras]

But I bet it would bring a return to some innovative ideas at night; at least something more intriguing than everybody running the same flying saucer guy on Art Bell.

Art Bell is virtually retired, and quite frankly, was an innovator in night-time talk. I miss hearing him in that time slot, as George Noory is extremely boring. I don't understand how he continues to pull decent ratings. He is no Art Bell. I've been a big Art fan, since his days of broadcasting on 50kw KDWN in Las Vegas.

I would agree that overall, nocturnal programming leaves much to be desired. Years ago, it was a pleasure to stay up all night to listen to all the overnight jocks/hosts at different AM operations. Everyone had their own flavor and the band was quite diverse. Unfortunately, with the advent of automation and increasing operating costs, this became an anachronism.

I currently live south of the border and will listen to a couple of 100 kw stations at night that cover the entire nation with live programming. It is fascinating to hear them take calls from truckers and other workers who are up all night. DX'ing is again fun again. And yes, I confess, I sometimes listen to the occasional interesting guest on Coast to Coast AM out of WOAI.

 

[TheBigA]

Thanks to the removal of ownership caps back in the 90's, there is no real incentive for the oligopoly that owns the most desirable sticks in any given town to do anything other than that which is best for the "cluster". In NYC and other cities there are numerous signals that are being sat on simply because the owners can.

But the owners that are misusing their AMs aren't the ones with mega clusters in those cities, as you point out with WCBS and WLW. The owners that are wasting their 50K AMs in NYC are folks like Bloomberg, who are running live & local business news on what used-to-be WNEW-AM 1130. You can add Buckley and Salem to that list. Live & local original programming isn't the instant answer to AM's problems.

Broadcasting ought to be something that serves the public interest. After all, they are the PUBLIC airwaves, licensed to a commercial entity to serve the public and make a buck in the process. 50KW service ought to be regarded as special permission from the people to reach a large swath of the public. If a broadcaster does not want to be the creator of unique programming, they ought to be willing to trade with someone who does.

The "public interest" line keeps getting brought up, but the reality is that you can't always make a buck serving the public. That may have worked in the 1920s before the era of big government, but not now. That's why the government has been forced to take over such public services as railroads, highways, and health care. Now they're bailing out banks. The public isn't always interested in traditional "public service."

The bigger problem is that the government is actually taking away traditional areas that used to be money-makers for radio, such a traffic reporting. Now state governments are spending millions of tax-payer dollars on traffic services that had been done by profit-making companies. Some of them approached state governments to apply for the contract, and were turned down.

The government also has gone out of its way to kill high power AM stations, limiting their power and reach in an attempt to focus their attention on "local areas." That not only hurt the ability of those stations to attract larger audiences with original programming, but it also brought in hundreds of new competitors on those frequencies.

And remember on this idea, nobody is being told what to broadcast. If they really want to run 24 hour syndication, they can, just not at 50KW. That is reserved for original thinker programmers. And I ask anyone who reads this, if your station was given the opportunity to be a 1AClear, would you?

Original programming costs lots of money. Even in the golden age, the stations that did expensive original programming, like the Opry or the Lone Ranger, could only afford it with some form of network deal, a clear channel signal, or both. Now, clear channels are outlawed, and the overcrowding of the radio dial makes great original programming difficult to hear, even on 50Ks, outside of the region.

The old broadcasting laws were built on the idea of scarcity. In the 20s, there were only so many AM frequencies available. Then FM came in. Then the internet and now cell phones. There is no "scarcity" any more. If I have money and I want to start a radio station, I don't need a tower and transmitters. To put it simply, you can't re-regulate us back into the past. Those days are over. The only way to operate ad-supported media is to deliver large audiences. Even a 50K signal isn't enough to reach the size audience that competes with syndication or the internet. If I have a great idea, I want everyone to hear it. Not just the people in my area.

 

[SCMcKinney]

'There is no "scarcity" any more. If I have money and I want to start a radio station, I don't need a tower and transmitters. To put it simply, you can't re-regulate us back into the past. Those days are over. The only way to operate ad-supported media is to deliver large audiences.'

I submit that Radio licenses are very scarce. Although clear channel status is no more, for the most part and especially in large cities, there are no more spaces left on the dial, AM or FM. That's why I think broadcasting in the public interest is so important, especially for somebody who has custody of a very rare 50KW facility (and also for a class A FM).

The public interest ought to be more than just dropping the needle on a stack of CD's or tuning the dish to a constant stream of syndicated programming. If you want to do that, you DON'T need towers or transmitters, the internet 'radio stations' are the place for you. However, I would bet that any suggestion that a jockless music station or 24 hour syndicatee be moved to mere internet distribution would be met with cold silence. There is value in being able to easily reach people with terrestrial broadcasting, and everybody knows it.

I believe any program director worth his or her salt could figure out how to make a buck if they were given control of a 50KW flamethrower, with the caveat that the owners were forced to do something imaginative if they want to keep the power at that level.

Requiring that 50KW's do more than the bare minimum in serving the public would make for better radio and a healthier industry. The original programming at a 50KW could be the basis for a distribution system to smaller stations. That in turn could be a revenue stream to pay for the expense of producing certain types of original programming . Buckley has tried this with some success with their some of the programming on WOR. Why the Grand Ole Opry is not distributed by WSM across America has been a mystery to me. I bet it would make money and could promote other Gaylord interests.

 

[elchupacabras]

Why the Grand Ole Opry is not distributed by WSM across America has been a mystery to me. I bet it would make money and could promote other Gaylord interests.

Likely due to an exclusive deal with Sirius/XM for distribution.

 

[TheBigA]

I submit that Radio licenses are very scarce.

Nope. All you need is money. Otherwise, I know of several hundred in major markets that could be yours today. I'm reading that Citadel wants to sell WMAL in DC right now. Give em a call.

The public interest ought to be more than just dropping the needle on a stack of CD's or tuning the dish to a constant stream of syndicated programming.

Yep, and "In God We Trust" should be more than a phrase on a dollar bill. But it isn't. This idea of the "public interest" died with World War 2. The government replaced private companies looking to serve the public interest. I'm not kidding.

I believe any program director worth his or her salt could figure out how to make a buck if they were given control of a 50KW flamethrower, with the caveat that the owners were forced to do something imaginative if they want to keep the power at that level.

Have you spoken with owners lately? If owners are forced to do imaginative things to make a buck, they're not going to do it under the treat of the law. They're going to do it with the opportunity to turn their imaginative idea into billions of dollars. Given the situation in ad-supported media, I doubt that anyone with money and imagination is looking at owning radio stations. The value of the 50K signal isn't worth the negative of all the regulations and the threat of losing that signal based on subjective opinion.

Requiring that 50KW's do more than the bare minimum in serving the public would make for better radio and a healthier industry.

Requiring all residents to perform at least 2 years of public service would make for a better country and better citizens. Some countries have that requirement. However, you can't get that bill passed in this country because we prefer to PAY people to serve the public.

 

[SCMcKinney]

'The value of the 50K signal isn't worth the negative of all the regulations and the threat of losing that signal based on subjective opinion'

Retruning to my original idea, there would be nothing subjective in requiring 75% of the broadcast day to be original programming. Either a live body is in the studio or they are not. There could be some leeway for pre-recording (not voice tracking), but you get the idea.

I guess I have heard that Citadel wants to unload a number of properties to ease their debt burden. However, any major market opportunity will be few and far between. Decent signals, especially 50KW's are rare and scarce, and an FM is not going to be available except for a king's ransom. If radio is such an awful part of the corporate portfolio, why AREN'T more of them being dumped? They are not because they are cash cows. Dull cows for the most part, but throwing off the cash all the same.

The point of this thread has been the lamentation of wasted 50KW capacity. A larger refrain on many of these boards has been the trouble the radio business is in. Too many station owners are not broadcasters; they are corporate bean counters. They should be compelled to do something constructive with the scarce resource they have, or get off the public airwaves. Fortunately, with the advent of the internet, there are no first admendment issues... if a broadcaster doesn't like the new rules, simply hand over the license and head over to the web where anything goes. Somehow, I don't think there will be a stampede for the exit.

Maybe the term 'public interest' or 'public service' conjures up too many memories of the microphone being brought in to a dull congressional hearing. If that's what you are focusing on, then maybe another phrase is needed. Radio needs to make itself essential to the communities they serve, and in the hands of REAL broadcast types it could be. It could be done and make money. Maybe not enough to meet the numbers a stock analyst needs, but I bet a programmer who has some imagination could make a nice return.

What the essential service would be and how it would be financed is likely going to require thinking outside the box and the special capabilities of 50KW's would be a good place to start. They are not the crown jewels of a broadcaster's portfolio (FM's likely have that spot), but they have enough clout to make something happen all over the board. Because they are unique in their broadcast capabilities, the people (yeah, through the long arm of the gum'mint) have the right to expect more from them and could prod them to do so.

I believe Rick Sklar once said that radio was the most adaptable of all mediums. It's time to end the status quo of the broadcast industry so that radio IS a part of the communities they serve again. If those interested in broadcast radio are afraid to try something new (with or without government mandate), the alternative is to simply lament what is not/ should be.

 

[TheBigA]

The point of this thread has been the lamentation of wasted 50KW capacity. A larger refrain on many of these boards has been the trouble the radio business is in. Too many station owners are not broadcasters; they are corporate bean counters. They should be compelled to do something constructive with the scarce resource they have, or get off the public airwaves.

Too many "broadcasters" simply don't have the money to become owners. And don't want to. Ownership isn't fun. Once again, you can't compell, force, require, threaten or intimidate potential owners on how to spend their money. If they choose to do what New York Mayor Bloomberg has done with what was once a proud signal, then they do it. And under your rules, he would be allowed to keep his station, even though no one listens.

Same with Dan Snyder, who owns what was once WRC 980 in Washington DC. The station is 75% live and local. And he gets a 1 share with 50KW.

I knew a guy who made the transition from being a programmer to being an owner. He changed overnight.

Radio needs to make itself essential to the communities they serve, and in the hands of REAL broadcast types it could be. It could be done and make money.

If you take a look at the qualifications for station ownership, the words "real broadcast types' don't appear. If you have the money, are a US citizen, and have never been convicted of a crime, you win. Sorry. While you're calling for minimum programming standards, you're ignoring the fact that it takes MONEY to own a station. The people with money don't care about rules, laws, programming, or communities.

What the essential service would be and how it would be financed is likely going to require thinking outside the box and the special capabilities of 50KW's would be a good place to start.

The special capabilities of 50KW's were destroyed by the FCC 25 years ago. Now, these stations are shadows of what they once were. I bet no one under the age of 40 even owns an AM radio any more. While you're making up new rules, why not require all commissioners of the FCC own AM/FM radios and listen at least ten hours per week.

Because they are unique in their broadcast capabilities, the people (yeah, through the long arm of the gum'mint) have the right to expect more from them and could prod them to do so.

Once again, there's nothing you can do, including using a prod, to force people to spend their money. You really need to spend some time with people who own things. Then tell them what they must do. The government tried to tell the Vanderbilts they needed minimum staffing on their trains. They got out of the business. Now the government runs the trains.

 

[Prais]

"While you're making up new rules, why not require all commissioners of the FCC own AM/FM radios and listen at least ten hours per week."

THIS STATEMENT makes more sense than the communism that SCMcKinney's idea.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

I live in Central Florida and can only get a few US 50 KW's at night. Those would be WSM, WSB, WBT, and sometimes WLW and New Orleans. People here claim that years ago you could get NYC and Chicago. Is this because of lower night time power, daytimers now F/T or South and Central American stations over-powering?

 

[davideduardo]

I live in Central Florida and can only get a few US 50 KW's at night. Those would be WSM, WSB, WBT, and sometimes WLW and New Orleans. People here claim that years ago you could get NYC and Chicago. Is this because of lower night time power, daytimers now F/T or South and Central American stations over-powering?

High noise levels are the most important impediments... new stations are next, and higher licensed powers outside the US is third... the US does not regulate stations in Latin America and many have increased power, legally.

 

[TheBigA]

Radio needs to make itself essential to the communities they serve,

OK...simple question: If the goal is to serve the community of license, why do you need 50kw? I worked at a 5kw daytimer that did that just fine.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio needs to make itself essential to the communities they serve,

OK...simple question: If the goal is to serve the community of license, why do you need 50kw? I worked at a 5kw daytimer that did that just fine.

In many markets, 5 kw will not provide the signal level to overcome interference and noise... an example is Cleveland, OH, where only one AM dovers the entire market day and night with enough signal to get diary returns from any location in the metro.

In LA, nearly no diary returns come from anything less than a 15 mv/m signal area... and that means that only three AMs fully cover the market (one is 5 kw, but on 570).

The whole 50 kw thing is not a valid argument. There are only about 50 of those in the US that are non directional or close to being so day and night, and a number of those are up above 1000 where a low band 5 kw station will actually offer nearly the same coverage And the rest of the 50's are very directional and some are worthless.... like WTOP in DC and KOMA in OKC and WINZ in Miami.

Dial position and ground conductivity are the real factors. WSM and WSB cover less daytime than a 5 kw station somewhere in Iowa or South Dakota because SB and SM are in horrible ground conductivity areas.

 

[TheBigA]

In many markets, 5 kw will not provide the signal level to overcome interference and noise.

I understand that, which is why an obvious adendum to any rules regarding 50Ks is returning them to their former glory by eliminating all the potential interference and noise issues. That requires the FCC to rethink its longstanding approach to radio, over-licensing the spectrum and not policing interference.

 

[WPPCProductions]

Why the Grand Ole Opry is not distributed by WSM across America has been a mystery to me. I bet it would make money and could promote other Gaylord interests.

Likely due to an exclusive deal with Sirius/XM for distribution.

Since WSM upgraded their webcast streaming format to a crisp clean sound .I would think Sirius/XM would loose subs to WSM online stream for free.