Wasted 50KW AM Signals

[oldiesfan6479]

...Revoked due to rigged contest. 580 AM, a Walton station revoked for the same thing.

That was KIKX 580 Tucson in 1974. While a contest ("guess where Crazy is"?) was
probably part of it, the primary cause of the license revocation was a fake kidnapping
staged and reported as such, including during newscasts, involving new morning guy
Gary "The Crazy Man" Craig. (Yes, that Gary Craig, for you Hartford folks.)

 

[SCMcKinney]

GR8Oldies:

"The problem with determining "public interest" is exactly who is "the public" or speaks for "the public"?." and "Who wants to be in charge of what I "should" hear?"

... My point (and the inspiration of this thread's recounting of wasted 50KW capacity) was how the situation of blown broadcast capacity could be ended/solved/improved. Some of the examples cited were pretty egregious in that what was being done could easily be effectively done on a much more normal powered station. The unique capabilities of a flamethrower could be encouraged to be used by broadcasters who have an ear for original thinking programming. That to me is improving the medium and the industry, and along the way serving the public better.

I have gotten a lot of flak for suggesting that the public is supposed to be served. However I think I am on decently solid ground that a part of the deal in getting a license is that the people ARE supposed to be served with entertainment, information and the like. The owners of these stations are entitled to do what they do and earn a return, but I don't think a public/private enterprise like a radio license is supposed to be JUST about the money.

Under my idea, nobody is being told what to do. If an owner thinks broadcasting satellite feeds from a faraway city 24/7 is serving his local community, he can; just not at 50KW. Swap with a broadcaster who first on the waiting list to be able to put his 75% original programming on the big signal.

As for determining what is the public interest, or rather what is NOT in the public interest, I have suggested that the citizens in the city of license be allowed to vote at election time whether a station should retain the license. Remember that prior to any election, there would be plenty of opportunity for a broadcaster to advertise their worth to the community, and I'd bet there would be a lot of 'community involvement programming' up to election day. I'll modify my original suggestion and say that if a broadcaster can't get 10% of the vote, it would be pretty clear that whatever they are doing is not serving the public interest. Think about it - 90% saying 'no' would be pretty embarassing and good or bad, something would change. If the broadcaster still thought what he was doing was vital to the community, there is always the internet radio option.


BigA:

"Operating a radio station has nothing to do with getting a government contract."

... You are correct, but the principle is similar.

A school board contract means that I cut a deal with purchasing to supply gym floor wax to the schools that meets certain chemical specifications and will be sold at a certain price over the span of a year. There is an expectation that the wood will be preserved and the students will have a safe place to play.

A broadcasting licensee is 'contracting' with the people through the FCC to use the public airwaves (I know, I know) to put programming on the air. There is an implication that it will serve the public's interest in some way, and the first amendment balances out the deal in that they can do pretty much whatever they want.

Admittedly my original content amendment to the broadcasting deal would change things for the 50KW's, but any such change would not happen overnight. Broadcasters on the affected properties would have time to assess their desires and resources, and maybe swap (for money and other considerations) with lower powered original thinkers who have a desire to try something new.

 

[davideduardo]

Under my idea, nobody is being told what to do. If an owner thinks broadcasting satellite feeds from a faraway city 24/7 is serving his local community, he can; just not at 50KW. Swap with a broadcaster who first on the waiting list to be able to put his 75% original programming on the big signal.

This obsession with singeling out 50 kkw AMs is more than absurd.

Most 5 kw AMs in the 540 to 700 kHz range cover much better than the average 50 kw station at 1100 or above. A 1 kw station below 600 in the plains states covers more than a 50 kw mid-band station in the areas of low ground conductivity, like New England, the mountainous areas of the south, etc.

50 kw stations like WLAC or KOMA or WCKY or KXEL or KBLA are pretty dreadful facilities...

And since very, very little radio listening (and less AM listening) takes place at night, the coverage of night AM at any power outside the home market is irrelevant and very tiny.

As for determining what is the public interest, or rather what is NOT in the public interest, I have suggested that the citizens in the city of license be allowed to vote at election time whether a station should retain the license.

Oh, my gawd. I can just immagine the bigots in some city voting to revoke the license of a 50 kw Spanish language station, even if the station is giving enormous service to its core constituency... maybe the whites in Memphis could vote WDIA, the nation's heritage (and 50 kw) Black station, off the air because some are upset with the Black mayor of Memphis. Or the non-Native Americans of Arizona could vote the Voice of the Navajo Nation at Window Rock off the air because it does not serve them.

Remember that prior to any election, there would be plenty of opportunity for a broadcaster to advertise their worth to the community, and I'd bet there would be a lot of 'community involvement programming' up to election day. I'll modify my original suggestion and say that if a broadcaster can't get 10% of the vote, it would be pretty clear that whatever they are doing is not serving the public interest.

In large metros, most stations, particularly AMs, don't get listening by anything close to 10% of the population, so it would be very hard to avoid people voting against a station because they simply had never heard of it.

Adding lots of "community" programming would make even fewer folks listen...

Think about it - 90% saying 'no' would be pretty embarassing and good or bad, something would change. If the broadcaster still thought what he was doing was vital to the community, there is always the internet radio option.

When even a market like Victor Valley, CA, has 34 radio stations, the average station only reaches a few percent of the population. But those people who do listen do so because each station offers something of value to some listeners, irrespective of the power of the station.

Admittedly my original content amendment to the broadcasting deal would change things for the 50KW's, but any such change would not happen overnight. Broadcasters on the affected properties would have time to assess their desires and resources, and maybe swap (for money and other considerations) with lower powered original thinkers who have a desire to try something new.

The entire universe of AM stations accounts, today, for about 15% of radio listening... and under age 55, about 10%. Below age 15, it's like 5%. The AM band is slowly dying with its ageing listeners. What you suggest wil hasten that death.

 

[TheBigA]

\

A broadcasting licensee is 'contracting' with the people through the FCC to use the public airwaves (I know, I know) to put programming on the air.

A broadcasting license is similar to a drivers license to use the public highways. That's about it. The public can't pick and choose who gets to drive on the nation's highways. If it was up to me, a third would lose their licenses. But it's not up to me.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

If it was up to me, a third would lose their licenses. But it's not up to me.

Maybe we could put that on the ballot.

"Yes [ ] No [ ] The driver's license for Debbie Thornback shall be revoked."
"Yes [ ] No [ ] The driver's license for Stephen Miller shall be revoked."
etc.

When was the last time you went to a broadcast facility and opened the public file to see what correspondence was in it? Was the newest letter more than five years old? Was it a complaint about hearing your station through the hair dryer? Running a natural male enhancement spot? Anything actually regarding "community service"?

 

[elchupacabras]

I'm with David on this one. The idea of arbitrarily voting for or against a licensee is insane. It would be very easy to sway an election and would disenfranchise minority/unpopular voices on the air. I know, I worked in a town where my tires were repeatedly slashed, just because I worked for a station with a regional Mexican format. I had to replace countless tires at my expense, only to be told by the police I was crazy and that the responsible were "Mexican cholos!" Hard to believe since even the station's vehicle got targeted and hate notes were left attached. People in this community despised the immigrant work force and wanted to run the station out.

Also, quite frankly, if I had a choice of a 3kw FM or a 50kw AM these days, I would take the FM. Not only would it be a much more viable investment, but has anybody thought about the cost of a 50kw power bill on a marginal station? It does not compute. And to do a build out with all the ground radials these days, no thanks!

 

[davideduardo]

I'm with David on this one. The idea of arbitrarily voting for or against a licensee is insane. It would be very easy to sway an election and would disenfranchise minority/unpopular voices on the air. I know, I worked in a town where my tires were repeatedly slashed, just because I worked for a station with a regional Mexican format. I had to replace countless tires at my expense, only to be told by the police I was crazy and that the responsible were "Mexican cholos!" Hard to believe since even the station's vehicle got targeted and hate notes were left attached. People in this community despised the immigrant work force and wanted to run the station out.

From the FCC database at www.fcc.gov, here are all the AMs with 50 kw daytime which are licensed (not CPs) in the US. Many of them are borderline dogs or absolute woofers, too. Yeah, there are about 230 or so of them!

WFLF Pine Hills FL 540
KMJ Fresno CA 580
WTCM Traverse City MI 580
WTMJ Milwaukee WI 620
KFI Los Angeles CA 640
WCRV Collierville TN 640
WGST Atlanta GA 640
WNNZ Westfield MA 640
WWJZ Mount Holly NJ 640
KENI Anchorage AK 650
WSM Nashville TN 650
KTNN Window Rock AZ 660
WFAN New York NY 660
WLFJ Greenville SC 660
KBOI Boise ID 670
KLTT Commerce City CO 670
WSCR Chicago IL 670
WWFE Miami FL 670
KKYX San Antonio TX 680
KNBR San Francisco CA 680
WCBM Baltimore MD 680
WCNN North Atlanta GA 680
WPTF Raleigh NC 680
WRKO Boston MA 680
WOKV Jacksonville FL 690
WSPZ Birmingham AL 690
KALL North Salt Lake City UT 700
WLW Cincinnati OH 700
KEEL Shreveport LA 710
KIRO Seattle WA 710
KSPN Los Angeles CA 710
KXMR Bismarck ND 710
WAQI Miami FL 710
WOR New York NY 710
KDWN Las Vegas NV 720
WGN Chicago IL 720
KCBS San Francisco CA 740
KRMG Tulsa OK 740
KTRH Houston TX 740
KVOX Fargo ND 740
WYGM Orlando FL 740
KERR Polson MT 750
KFQD Anchorage AK 750
KXL Portland OR 750
WSB Atlanta GA 750
KKZN Thornton CO 760
KTKR San Antonio TX 760
WJR Detroit MI 760
KCBC Riverbank CA 770
KKOB Albuquerque NM 770
KTTH Seattle WA 770
WABC New York NY 770
KKOH Reno NV 780
WBBM Chicago IL 780
KGO San Francisco CA 810
KTBI Ephrata WA 810
WCKA Jacksonville AL 810
WGY Schenectady NY 810
WHB Kansas City MO 810
WKVM San Juan PR 810
WSJC Magee MS 810
KGNW Burien-Seattle WA 820
KUTR Taylorsville UT 820
WBAP Fort Worth TX 820
WWBA Largo FL 820
KFLT Tucson AZ 830
KLAA Orange CA 830
WCCO Minneapolis MN 830
WCRN Worcester MA 830
WTRU Kernersville NC 830
KXNT North Las Vegas NV 840
WCEO Columbia SC 840
WHAS Louisville KY 840
KICY Nome AK 850
KOA Denver CO 850
WEEI Boston MA 850
WKNR Cleveland OH 850
WKVL Knoxville TN 850
WTAR Norfolk VA 850
WXJC Birmingham AL 850
KPAM Troutdale OR 860
KTRB San Francisco CA 860
KRLA Glendale CA 870
WWL New Orleans LA 870
KGHT Sheridan AR 880
KIXI Mercer Island WA 880
KRVN Lexington NE 880
WCBS New York NY 880
KDJQ Meridian ID 890
WBAJ Blythewood SC 890
WLS Chicago IL 890
KTIS Minneapolis MN 900
WFDF Farmington Hills MI 910
KWRU Fresno CA 940
WCPC Houston MS 940
WINZ Miami FL 940
WMAC Macon GA 940
KJR Seattle WA 950
WWJ Detroit MI 950
WTEM Washington DC 980
WALE Greenville RI 990
WDYZ Orlando FL 990
WNTP Philadelphia PA 990
KOMO Seattle WA 1000
WMVP Chicago IL 1000
KPCW Tooele UT 1010
KXEN St. Louis MO 1010
WFGW Black Mountain NC 1010
WGUN Atlanta GA 1010
WINS New York NY 1010
WJXL Jacksonville Beach FL 1010
WQYK Seffner FL 1010
KCKN Roswell NM 1020
KDKA Pittsburgh PA 1020
KMMQ Plattsmouth NE 1020
KTNQ Los Angeles CA 1020
KCTA Corpus Christi TX 1030
KDUN Reedsport OR 1030
KTWO Casper WY 1030
WBZ Boston MA 1030
WCTS Maplewood MN 1030
WDRU Wake Forest NC 1030
WGSF Memphis TN 1030
WWGB Indian Head MD 1030
WHO Des Moines IA 1040
KTCT San Mateo CA 1050
WEPN New York NY 1050
KRCN Longmont CO 1060
KYW Philadelphia PA 1060
WIXC Titusville FL 1060
WLNO New Orleans LA 1060
KNX Los Angeles CA 1070
WAPI Birmingham AL 1070
WCSZ Sans Souci SC 1070
WDIA Memphis TN 1070
WFLI Lookout Mountain TN 1070
WFNI Indianapolis IN 1070
WNCT Greenville NC 1070
KFXX Portland OR 1080
KRLD Dallas TX 1080
WFTD Marietta GA 1080
WMCU Coral Gables FL 1080
WTIC Hartford CT 1080
WWNL Pittsburgh PA 1080
KAAY Little Rock AR 1090
KMXA Aurora CO 1090
KPTK Seattle WA 1090
WBAL Baltimore MD 1090
KFAX San Francisco CA 1100
KFNX Cave Creek AZ 1100
KNZZ Grand Junction CO 1100
WTAM Cleveland OH 1100
WZFG Dilworth MN 1100
KDIS Pasadena CA 1110
KFAB Omaha NE 1110
WBT Charlotte NC 1110
WYRM Norfolk VA 1110
KMOX St. Louis MO 1120
KPNW Eugene OR 1120
KFAN Minneapolis MN 1130
KWKH Shreveport LA 1130
WBBR New York NY 1130
WDFN Detroit MI 1130
WISN Milwaukee WI 1130
KHTK Sacramento CA 1140
WQBA Miami FL 1140
WRVA Richmond VA 1140
KTLK Los Angeles CA 1150
KSL Salt Lake City UT 1160
WCFO East Point GA 1160
WCRT Donelson TN 1160
WMET Gaithersburg MD 1160
WYLL Chicago IL 1160
KCBQ San Diego CA 1170
KFAQ Tulsa OK 1170
KJNP North Pole AK 1170
KLOK San Jose CA 1170
WWVA Wheeling WV 1170
KERN Wasco-Greenacres CA 1180
KGOL Humble TX 1180
KOFI Kalispell MT 1180
WHAM Rochester NY 1180
WJNT Pearl MS 1180
KEX Portland OR 1190
KFXR Dallas TX 1190
WOWO Fort Wayne IN 1190
KFNW West Fargo ND 1200
WAMB Nashville TN 1200
WCHB Taylor MI 1200
WOAI San Antonio TX 1200
WJNL Kingsley MI 1210
WPHT Philadelphia PA 1210
WHKW Cleveland OH 1220
WSUA Miami FL 1260
KFLC Fort Worth TX 1270
WXYT Detroit MI 1270
WADO New York NY 1280
KOUU Pocatello ID 1290
WHKY Hickory NC 1290
KKOL Seattle WA 1300
WNQM Nashville TN 1300
WBOB Jacksonville FL 1320
KMNY Hurst TX 1360
KPXQ Glendale AZ 1360
WVIE Pikesville MD 1370
KMRB San Gabriel CA 1430
KTNO University Park TX 1440
WWNN Pompano Beach FL 1470
KSTP St. Paul MN 1500
WFED Washington DC 1500
WLQV Detroit MI 1500
KGA Spokane WA 1510
WLAC Nashville TN 1510
WWBC Cocoa FL 1510
WWZN Boston MA 1510
KGDD Oregon City OR 1520
KOKC Oklahoma City OK 1520
WWKB Buffalo NY 1520
KFBK Sacramento CA 1530
KGBT Harlingen TX 1530
WCKY Cincinnati OH 1530
WYMM Jacksonville FL 1530
KMPC Los Angeles CA 1540
KXEL Waterloo IA 1540
WDCD Albany NY 1540
WNWR Philadelphia PA 1540
KKAD Vancouver WA 1550
KRPI Ferndale WA 1550
KUAZ Tucson AZ 1550
WAZX Smyrna GA 1550
WLOR Huntsville AL 1550
KGOW Bellaire TX 1560
WAGL Lancaster SC 1560
WCMA Daleville AL 1560
WQEW New York NY 1560
KBLA Santa Monica CA 1580
KMIK Tempe AZ 1580
WHFS Morningside MD 1580
KVRI Blaine WA 1600
WMQM Lakeland TN 1600

 

[Tom Wells]

Chicago has two 50kw AM sports yap stations. One or the other (in my opinion, both) is a waste of spectrum. Since they both use 50lhz of bandwidth, it is an especially annoying waste of spectrum. As 670 destroys my ability to enjoy WSM, I'd vote for it to lose flamethrower
status. When 670 was a WMAQ as a full time news station, it was quite useful, as it gave good competition to WBBM.

If I were "in charge" I'd give the 670 50kw facility to the signal of WJJG Elmhurst, and let the sports yap make do with WJJG's 1530 daytimer.

 

[gr8oldies]

Last time I looked at a public file, there were mostly letters saying "your new format sucks". No "I want public affairs programming!". For those of you presently or formerly in the buisness, when was the last time you remember anyone stopping by to see the public file?

 

[davideduardo]

Chicago has two 50kw AM sports yap stations. One or the other (in my opinion, both) is a waste of spectrum. Since they both use 50lhz of bandwidth, it is an especially annoying waste of spectrum. As 670 destroys my ability to enjoy WSM, I'd vote for it to lose flamethrower
status. When 670 was a WMAQ as a full time news station, it was quite useful, as it gave good competition to WBBM.

So, it's good to have two news stations competing, but not good to have two sports stations competing?

Who makes the determination that one format is better than another?

Listen to WSM on the web... if you were actually in Nashville, you would double their audience size... WSM is the worst performing of any of the original 25 1 A clears.

 

[Prais]

David,
Your point is absolutely correct. WHO makes the decision to flush a station? As I said a few pages back, everyooe haas a right to the public airwaves.

 

[Tom Wells]

Chicago has two 50kw AM sports yap stations. One or the other (in my opinion, both) is a waste of spectrum. Since they both use 50lhz of bandwidth, it is an especially annoying waste of spectrum. As 670 destroys my ability to enjoy WSM, I'd vote for it to lose flamethrower
status. When 670 was a WMAQ as a full time news station, it was quite useful, as it gave good competition to WBBM.

So, it's good to have two news stations competing, but not good to have two sports stations competing?

Who makes the determination that one format is better than another?

Listen to WSM on the web... if you were actually in Nashville, you would double their audience size... WSM is the worst performing of any of the original 25 1 A clears.

Two different voices/inputs/slants on news is, to me, clearly far more useful than 2 full-time "sports opinion" stations.

If I want to hear sports opinions, there are a multitude of opinions avaiable in any bar, all of which are as useful as those heard on AM radio.
News (local and National) are of much more service to the wide-area coverage of a 50kw AM.

WSM does not sound anything on the web like it does (did) on the matched 1936 Philco consoles, modified for 15 khz audio, with push-pull triode outputs.
Performance by the metrics of arbitron does not properly measure a station like WSM, which serves a much larger area than the Nashville "market", and always has.

My car is not web enabled, and the many thousands of miles of driving I have done with WSM along for the ride make WSM one of the most valuable
signals on the AM.

As one who has been on the road for 20 years, I much rather will listen to signals that go hundreds of miles than seek out new FM stations every 20-30 minutes.

I know I'm a fossil, and radio is no longer vying for my ear, but I greatly appreciate the few that still serve my interests.

 

[Prais]

Tom Wells said;
Two different voices/inputs/slants on news is, to me, clearly far more useful than 2 full-time "sports opinion" stations.
_____
Not a smart idea. But OK. Lets shut off the ethnic stations that duplicate Spanish and Polish. How about tthe bunch of religious stations out there? Lets shut off all but one of the AC and CHR FM's that play Brittany, etc. In 1967 you would omiot LS or WCFL. What a travesty that would have been. There are LOTS of duplicate formats. Big Deal. THANK GOD that The FCC does NOT get in to programming.

This is AMERICA and that's what competition is for. May the best station win.

I want to knosw WHO will be in charge of shutting off ALL but one station in each format - and HOW you keep that from being as corrupt as the Illinois Governor's job? that job would be more corrupt than the Mayor of Chicago's job. He and his daddy have not yet been caught with their hand in th til.

Tom, with respect, I understand your frustration. But you create an Impossinle job for a NOT PRACTICAL goal.

 

[davideduardo]

Two different voices/inputs/slants on news is, to me, clearly far more useful than 2 full-time "sports opinion" stations.

To you, perhaps. If I am a sports fan, and the show on WXXX is mostly Cubbies commentary, while the one on WZZZ is chock full of sox, then I go with the one that talks about my team. It's just like music... there are different genres, different sports, different styles.

If I want to hear sports opinions, there are a multitude of opinions avaiable in any bar, all of which are as useful as those heard on AM radio. News (local and National) are of much more service to the wide-area coverage of a 50kw AM.

There are 240 50 kw AMs (daytime at least) and many of them are quite lousy facilities. But in the big cities, you essentially have to have 50 kw to cover the metro above the noise level. There are in fact only about 2.2 viable AMs on average in each of the top 100 markets...t he rest don't cover well enough to compete.

And there are three successful AM formats... News, viable in the top 10 to 15 markets at best, news talk, the most popular, and all sports. If you have a decent AM, pick the one that combines advertiser appeal and lower cost. Sports is easiest, followed by talk followed by all news.

WSM does not sound anything on the web like it does (did) on the matched 1936 Philco consoles, modified for 15 khz audio, with push-pull triode outputs.

And cars did not have airbags or seatbelts. I'm thankful for progress. Oh, we got FM, too, since then. It sounds a lot better than that danged AM, especially on a stormy night with all that static.

Performance by the metrics of arbitron does not properly measure a station like WSM, which serves a much larger area than the Nashville "market", and always has.

The AM signal is pretty much limited to the Nashville Metro, although they get a tad of listening in Bowling Green, Clarksville and Cookeville... very small amounts, though. There is no measurable listening outside the day coverage area because there is so little listening to AM at night anyway.

I went and looked at 10 years of Chicago ratings for the TSA, which is the 53 county area surrounding Chicago... much of it significantly ruiral. The computer Maximiser data shows all stations that got diary mentions, even if the number and extent of them did not represent enough listening to qualfy for the "book." Not once did WSM show up, from 1998 until the diary based survey died last year. In fact, the only 50 kw clear channel station out of market that had any listening was KMOX in St. Louis, but the TSA (Total Survey Area) extends so far out that the listening was daytime and on groundwave.

 

[SCMcKinney]

David Eduardo:

"This obsession with singling out 50KW AMs is more than absurd."

...Excuse me, this thread was started with the premise that many (unique) 50KW powered stations were wasting their capabilities. I merely made a suggestion that would serve to end this waste. If you'll note I have made no requirements over what was to be broadcast on these unique properties other than that a substantial portion of their broadcast day be original and live. Nobody is being forced off the air, only being made to swap frequencies to a smaller spot if their vision of what could be is likewise small.

Altough many of the 50KW (especially in daytime) are not as far reaching as they would be expected to be, I would bet 'most' broadcasters would be willing to take on the opportunity (barring their being able to get an FM spot).

From my personal experience in daytime driving:
WFLF Pine Hills FL 540 - can be heard daytime from Fort Myers to Jax
KFI Los Angeles CA 640 - heard them once in Florida (pre dawn)
WGST Atlanta GA 640 - during critical hours can hear them in N Fla
WSM Nashville TN 650 - in winter can hear them at 4:30 PM in central Fla
WFAN New York NY 660 - critical hours can hear them in Fla
WOKV Jacksonville FL 690 - can be heard in Orlando, has got ratings in SC
WLW Cincinnati OH 700 - maybe the best signal there is
WAQI Miami FL 710 - Castro stomps them out with counter programming
KCBS San Francisco CA 740 - heard them critical hours in Las Vegas
WSB Atlanta GA 750 - critical hours in Fla, often far down I75 in GA daytime
WWBA Largo FL 820 - Pensacola to Fort Myers to Orlando and beyond
WEEI Boston MA 850 - listened to the Red Sox in Asbury Park NJ
WWL New Orleans LA 870 - all over Florida panhandle
WCBS New York NY 880 - critical hours in Fla
WINZ Miami FL 940 - solid as far west as Sebring
WQYK Tampa FL 1010 -bad signal north and south, great on I4 Daytona Beach
WBT Charlotte NC 1110 - critical hours in Miami
WLAC Nashville TN 1510 - critical hours
WCKY Cincinnati OH 1530 - critical hours (hated to see WSAI go away)

Of course my experience doesn't mean anything, but it does indicate that many (most?) of these are not garbage signals, and of course most anybody on 50KW at night still has potential huge reach. I bet most broadcasters would be willing to swap for most 50KW frequencies.

"50 kw stations like WLAC or KOMA or WCKY or KXEL or KBLA are pretty dreadful facilities... "

... I don't know where you are at, but WLAC and WCKY both boom in to Florida consistently at night. Both have mostly syndicated programming which could just as easily be done on a normal wattage station.


"I can just imagine the bigots in some city voting to revoke the license of a 50 kw Spanish language station, even if the station is giving enormous service to its core constituency... "

... I don't know if you were referring to my 'let the people vote' idea, but you should remember that I modified it to suggest a mere 10% approval. If anybody can't get that much, they are not serving the public interest on the public airwaves. If a town is comprised of 90% bigots, they have a different problem.


" Adding lots of "community" programming would make even fewer folks listen..."

... You've got to think outside the box. For example, foreign language 50KW's and those that serve niche markets could justify their relevance to the community by turning off the turntables for a few minutes and letting minority candidates have a chance to air their platforms. I wouldn't necessarily think this programming would be an on-going thing, although it could be.


"The entire universe of AM stations accounts, today, for about 15% of radio listening... and under age 55, about 10%. Below age 15, it's like 5%. The AM band is slowly dying with its ageing listeners. What you suggest will hasten that death."

... As is, the AM band IS slowly dying, and without some shakeup, it will be gone. My idea of requiring original programming on a certain class of these stations could serve to give it a new lease on life. True, it might not, but otherwise I would bet that most talk stations will eventually gravitate to FM, and then the AM band will not be commercially viable for anybody.


BigA:

"A broadcasting license is similar to a drivers license to use the public highways."

... That's a good comparison. Suppose experienced truckers were given the opportunity for a special license that allowed them to operate on an interstate with no speed limit (safe and prudent speed). Couldn't the state expect something more from them in return? (Providing free transport of critical medical items, for example - serving the public interest).

 

[TheBigA]

Suppose experienced truckers were given the opportunity for a special license that allowed them to operate on an interstate with no speed limit (safe and prudent speed). Couldn't the state expect something more from them in return? (Providing free transport of critical medical items, for example - serving the public interest).

There's a big difference between "no speed limit" and a 50KW AM. By definition, 50KW is a limitation. Bring back 100KW and clear channels with no restrictions on localism, and you might have a carrot worth chasing. Until then, AM radio is on life support, and increased regulation isn't going to help.

 

[davideduardo]

"50 kw stations like WLAC or KOMA or WCKY or KXEL or KBLA are pretty dreadful facilities... "

... I don't know where you are at, but WLAC and WCKY both boom in to Florida consistently at night. Both have mostly syndicated programming which could just as easily be done on a normal wattage station.

Yet neither station fully covers its local metro area at night (WLAC does not even cover it all in the daytime). 1510 and 1530 are horrible frequencies, and even with 50 kw can't cover much. So they occasionally get out at long distances at night... they don't consitently cover most of those areas day in and day out, so they can not be counted on for local service.

A "normal wattage" station, whatever that is (in most of the world, 50 kw is low power) station on 1510 and 1530 would not cover much of anything. Again, 1 kw at 550 covers more than 50 kw on 1600. And that's why today there are so few truly successful stations at the high end of the dial.

"I can just imagine the bigots in some city voting to revoke the license of a 50 kw Spanish language station, even if the station is giving enormous service to its core constituency... "

... I don't know if you were referring to my 'let the people vote' idea, but you should remember that I modified it to suggest a mere 10% approval. If anybody can't get that much, they are not serving the public interest on the public airwaves. If a town is comprised of 90% bigots, they have a different problem.

I told you that most stations, AM or FM, don't reach 10% of the local populaton. So the 90+ percent that never heard of a station might simply vote against it. And if it were a Spanish language station or a religious teaching station, some people would vote against it. Your idea is not just impractical... it is downright dangerous and pits different taste groups against each other.

" Adding lots of "community" programming would make even fewer folks listen..."

... You've got to think outside the box. For example, foreign language 50KW's and those that serve niche markets could justify their relevance to the community by turning off the turntables for a few minutes and letting minority candidates have a chance to air their platforms. I wouldn't necessarily think this programming would be an on-going thing, although it could be.

The interesting thing when most markets of a half million or so or more have 25 to 30 stations is that listeners will change to entertaining programming when that sort of BS comes on: that is why public access channels never get any ratings on TV.

"The entire universe of AM stations accounts, today, for about 15% of radio listening... and under age 55, about 10%. Below age 15, it's like 5%. The AM band is slowly dying with its ageing listeners. What you suggest will hasten that death."

... As is, the AM band IS slowly dying, and without some shakeup, it will be gone. My idea of requiring original programming on a certain class of these stations could serve to give it a new lease on life. True, it might not, but otherwise I would bet that most talk stations will eventually gravitate to FM, and then the AM band will not be commercially viable for anybody.

TV found that the cost of doing entertaining programming is such that it can not generally be done locally, save news. Radio in today's economy is finding that networked programming is both more appealing and lest costly than trying to do most things locally. "Localism" is meaningless unless thelocal programs are also listenable and appealing. And, generally, really good local talent is snatched away to a larger market or network... so all the effort is often for nil.

 

[Huff]

And that's why today there are so few truly successful stations at the high end of the dial.

Very true... only a handful of competitive AM stations above 1100 on the dial...
KTCK 1310 Dallas*
KMOX 1120 St.Louis
KEX 1190 Portland
WBT 1110 Charlotte*
KFBK 1530 Sacramento
WOAI 1200 San Antonio
KSL 1160 Salt Lake City
WHAM 1180 Rochester
WRVA 1140 Richmond
WOOD 1300 Grand Rapids
KFAB 1110 Omaha

That's 11 stations in the top 100 markets that rank regularly in the top 10 of their market overall, and only 3 of those are above 1200 on the dial.

*KTCK and WBT both have FM simulcasts that are greatly outperformed by the AM portion of the signal (based on pre-total line reporting data)

 

[BRNout]

50 kw stations like WLAC or KOMA or WCKY or KXEL or KBLA are pretty dreadful facilities...

David, KOMA isn't a dreadful facility. At least it wasn't when it was KOMA. Now as KOKC, it's a weak shadow of its former self. But as oldies KOMA, it actually garnered pretty good ratings - even after the FM simulcast began. Last I checked, KOKC has yet to match those numbers. So, formatwise, KOKC could be considered "a waste" at the moment. But the technical facility sends an excellent signal across it's home metro and (on most nights) an almost local-grade skywave signal throughout the high plains and intermountain West. I used to listen to it a lot when driving through UT, CO, WY or NM at night. During the day, it covers most of Oklahoma pretty well.

 

[elchupacabras]

Back in the sixties up through the early 90's, it seemed to have a much better signal. My father lived in a small Idaho town in the early sixties and told me that KOMA was what all the high school couples listened to at night. In fact, he and a buddy used to go up and down Main Street chasing couples, illegally broadcasting over the top of KOMA with their mobile pirate station, advising the guys, "This is the voice of your conscience speaking. You'd better not kiss her!"

I have some great memories of the station in the eighties when it aired a big band/nostalgia format. It became one of my favorite stations. I can't vouch for inside the market coverage, but the night skywave was very strong. Whether it be band congestion, ground radial woes, or whatever, the past ten years have been pitiful, ever since taking on the KOKC calls.