I'm also going to bring this from Washington/Baltimore to this posting site. This is a real cool thread.
http://radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic.48396.0.html
http://radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic.48396.0.html
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Wasted 50KW Stations
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I've been following it lately and the postings have been quite interesting.
As far as I'm concerned, I guess I'd nominate 1220 from Cleveland (with a caveat b/c you can hardly hear it west of town at any time), 1530 WCKY during the overnight hours and KTRH from here in Houston. Talk about a cookie-cutter of a station. There are so many things that could be done with KTRH that I won't begin to describe them here.
I'll throw WOWO in too b/c it's 50K during the day and was 24/7 for many years. What the company that bought it did to that station is a travesty.
And for the heck of it, why not some of the old borderblasters that could go 150K or more from right on the Mexican border and don't? At the risk of drawing the wrath of a certain poster who I respect immensely, it's a shame these stations aren't utilized like the old XEROK and Wolfman Jack's old home at 1570.
As far as I'm concerned, I guess I'd nominate 1220 from Cleveland (with a caveat b/c you can hardly hear it west of town at any time), 1530 WCKY during the overnight hours and KTRH from here in Houston. Talk about a cookie-cutter of a station. There are so many things that could be done with KTRH that I won't begin to describe them here.
I'll throw WOWO in too b/c it's 50K during the day and was 24/7 for many years. What the company that bought it did to that station is a travesty.
And for the heck of it, why not some of the old borderblasters that could go 150K or more from right on the Mexican border and don't? At the risk of drawing the wrath of a certain poster who I respect immensely, it's a shame these stations aren't utilized like the old XEROK and Wolfman Jack's old home at 1570.
I (IMHO) think a waste is a station using all that power to run syndicated programming that can be found many other places.
This could apply to any of the 50KWs that run mostly syndicated stuff. WHO, WJR & WRVA come to mind right off. As far as overnights, how abot WLS, WHAS, WTAM & all the others that carry "Coast ot Coast AM"? Not to mention the stations re-running daytime stuff.
On the non-"waste" side, there are stations like WGN, WBZ & KMOX
This could apply to any of the 50KWs that run mostly syndicated stuff. WHO, WJR & WRVA come to mind right off. As far as overnights, how abot WLS, WHAS, WTAM & all the others that carry "Coast ot Coast AM"? Not to mention the stations re-running daytime stuff.
On the non-"waste" side, there are stations like WGN, WBZ & KMOX
In northern California, I'll nominate KTRB 840. 50kw worth of signal that nobody is listening to (unless deer and wild turkeys on the hill have radios).
On the other hand, just a couple clicks down the dial there is KGO 810, which is a great station that everyone listens to. Ironic that they are so close together on the dial.
On the other hand, just a couple clicks down the dial there is KGO 810, which is a great station that everyone listens to. Ironic that they are so close together on the dial.
C
chuckydoll
Guest
Any 50 kw signal that depends on right-wing talk. It is not what listeners want -- it is what management desires. Even KMOX carries Rush Limbaugh.
Syndication in overnight isn't exactly wasted. Larry King made his name doing overnights via the Mutual network before he went to CNN.
WWKB-1520 from Buffalo is a sad story. A giant in the 60's and 70's, KB has bounced from format to format now that pop music has moved to FM.
Syndication in overnight isn't exactly wasted. Larry King made his name doing overnights via the Mutual network before he went to CNN.
WWKB-1520 from Buffalo is a sad story. A giant in the 60's and 70's, KB has bounced from format to format now that pop music has moved to FM.
I'll add two formerly great music stations to the list.
First, WWVA (1170) which I believe still runs brokered religion all night. I think they were one of the first stations to do this. I can recall when they were a country music powerhouse.
The other is 1560 in New York. Okay, they might still be playing music, but come on, do they really think that kids in the big apple are rocking out to Radio Disney on AM? Most people under 25 probably don't even know what AM is! If they are listening to Disney, most likely they are listening on the web or some other platform.
I'll always remember 1560 for its decades as a serious music station, both as WQXR and the original WQEW.
First, WWVA (1170) which I believe still runs brokered religion all night. I think they were one of the first stations to do this. I can recall when they were a country music powerhouse.
The other is 1560 in New York. Okay, they might still be playing music, but come on, do they really think that kids in the big apple are rocking out to Radio Disney on AM? Most people under 25 probably don't even know what AM is! If they are listening to Disney, most likely they are listening on the web or some other platform.
I'll always remember 1560 for its decades as a serious music station, both as WQXR and the original WQEW.
JakeLongwell said:
I could be wrong about this but a few years back I heard just about the only market where Radio Disney is doing well is in the small town ( former big town ) Cumberland, Maryland mainly because of two reasons. One..they are on FM in Cumberland and Second until about a year ago there were the closest thing to top 40 Cumberland had. Today with nearby Keyser's 94.1 making the switch to top 40 a year ago I am sure they put a dent in Radio Disney's numbers there.
chuckydoll said:
Aw, come on. On many talk stations, whatever the power, Rush has the highest ratings of any program or daypart.
Management wants the shows that get the best ratings, and in the talk arena, nobody delivers the salable ratings that Rush does.
mleach said:
Radio Disney does not target the same demos as a CHR. A CHR targets women 18-34, and isney goes for kids 6 to 11.
Radio Disney is a marketing device for the Disney brand, just as ESPN radio does the same for the ESPN brand. As such, both are doing well.
Mike Woods said:
KTRB is on 860.
DE is dead on chuck. I don't think many of the 55 year old owners are huge hippity-hop fans either, but if it lets their station turn a profit...
My notes from the same subject on Engineering board:
Wasted is a rough term. How about strugging for audience? In that light, former rock legend (WIBG) WNTP 990Kc & (former WCAU) WPHT 1210 Kc Phila, WWKB Buffalo NY. Then there are those that have been shown respect and have tended the garden well over the years, like WBT, WABC, WFAN, WINS, KYW, KDKA, WBZ
My notes from the same subject on Engineering board:
Wasted is a rough term. How about strugging for audience? In that light, former rock legend (WIBG) WNTP 990Kc & (former WCAU) WPHT 1210 Kc Phila, WWKB Buffalo NY. Then there are those that have been shown respect and have tended the garden well over the years, like WBT, WABC, WFAN, WINS, KYW, KDKA, WBZ
What about 640 AM of Westfield, MA? It's on the west side of the Springfield, MA radio market. I live barely 40 miles to the south and I struggle to get them in during the day. Maybe they have a directional pattern, who knows? They're doing PBS programming on a commercial license the last time I checked.
C
chuckydoll
Guest
I refer to stations that run 50 kw day and night.
WABC carried New York Yankees baseball from 1981 until 2001. Why were the Bronx Bombers booted off 77? Limbaugh whined and cried about being pre-empted for day games. ABC corporate wanted to mollify the druggie so they dropped the Yankees.
WOR dropped New Jersey Nets basketball 4 years ago so it could run Michael Savage. Given his fascist rants -- and the fact that major advertisers consider him poison -- he may not be long for 710. The station also has to service debt on a new transmitter site and new studios.
WABC carried New York Yankees baseball from 1981 until 2001. Why were the Bronx Bombers booted off 77? Limbaugh whined and cried about being pre-empted for day games. ABC corporate wanted to mollify the druggie so they dropped the Yankees.
WOR dropped New Jersey Nets basketball 4 years ago so it could run Michael Savage. Given his fascist rants -- and the fact that major advertisers consider him poison -- he may not be long for 710. The station also has to service debt on a new transmitter site and new studios.
chuckydoll said:
Of course, missing from this entire thread on both boards is the fact that a 50 kw station, day and night, on 1520, is likely vastly inferior to a 5 kw station below 600 on the dial. Not all 50's are created equal... 550 in Buffalo is a better facility for the local market than 1520 is.
The site move, to build a new real estate development on the old site, was paid for by the developers and, I believe, the taxpayers (if as I recall, eminent domain was used). In any case, a station like WOR can pay for both moves from cash flow or retained income. There is going to be no debt service on that, and capital expenses are depreciated over periods of several to many years, so it has little impact on current operations.
Mike Woods said:
It's hard to keep up with the Pappas stations anyway. Double
Scott Fybush said:KML-224 said:
They're doing PBS programming? Like, simulcasting TV shows on radio?
PBS=TV
OK, I meant National Public Radio. It sounds like they have some agreement with WFCR-FM 88.5 of Amherst, MA, though I'm not sure.
As for the 50 Kw unlimited rule, I think WNNZ-AM is indeed that. However, I get nearly nothing on their signal here at night in central Connecticut.
KML-224 said:
Yes, they do.
KML-224 said:
WNNZ drops to 1 kW at night. They're also directional (with different patterns) day and night.
KML-224....
WNNZ is very directional with 50kw, and your being due south of them are in their deepest daytime null. You're getting the equivalent of a about 1000 watts from WNNZ during the day. The bulk of their power goes North, Northwest and West.
At night they drop to 1 kw, with a totally different directional pattern, that puts their main night lobe toward Springfield to the Southeast. You get a bit more power in your direction at night that during the day, the equivalent of maybe 1600 watts.
WNNZ is very directional with 50kw, and your being due south of them are in their deepest daytime null. You're getting the equivalent of a about 1000 watts from WNNZ during the day. The bulk of their power goes North, Northwest and West.
At night they drop to 1 kw, with a totally different directional pattern, that puts their main night lobe toward Springfield to the Southeast. You get a bit more power in your direction at night that during the day, the equivalent of maybe 1600 watts.
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