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WATO gone for good...
- Thread starter knoxbob
- Start date
Tibbs2 said:
I agree, there's the likelyhood that the town/area couldn't support even a minimal staff... unless you're rich and have tons of money.
Raingus said:
June 24, 1992
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scottwmro
Guest
Tibbs2 said:
Tibbs,
Your facts are correct, especially in the economic situation our country is in now. My station in Gallatin doesn't make 5K in monthly ad sales (this excludes the religious programming on Sunday).
There is still life on AM, but I'm afraid it's not in a suburban area station like WATO. AM is still buyable in the big markets like Chicago, NYC, L.A., etc. I even heard rumors that WSM-AM has had it's woes in not bring in the reveune that it should, but public outpour has keep it going.
Somebody tell me what AM station in Knoxville is billing the most. I would think the results would be shocking.
On a happy note, as far as Oak Ridge Football is concern, the internet is alive and well, and growing every day. There will be a day where internet feeds will be available in a portable version to hear internet stations, especially ones that broadcast high school ball games. Schools should "NOW" take advantage of this technology, as I see AM fading into the sunset (and even FM) and the internet streams becoming more available to the masses, via portable receivers.
scottwmro said:
Somebody from Knoxville would know better but AM radio has seen better days. 99 WNOX did rise from the ashes with news/talk but it is now on FM. The rest of the band is paid religion, niche formats and bad ground conductivity.
Internet streaming is where FM was 40 years ago, give it ten years and cooler heads over music licenses.
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SuperQ
Guest
WNML would be far and away the highest biller on AM in Knoxville, but they're simlcast on two rimshot FM's also. Actually the 99.1 signal gets higher ratings than the 10 KW AM.
The highest billing standalone AM in Knoxville would be WRJZ (religious) with WKXV (religious) next. WQBB (standards and brokered talk) and WKVL (brokered talk) would be far behind those. Actually I bet WYSH in Clinton and WLIL in Lenoir City probably bill more than the last two.
Suburban AM's can survive but probably not be rebuilt if they're already dead. Small town AM's away from the sales influence of the bigger markets can make a living. But a crummy AM signal in a big city had better either bring in the sheaves or habla espanol.
The highest billing standalone AM in Knoxville would be WRJZ (religious) with WKXV (religious) next. WQBB (standards and brokered talk) and WKVL (brokered talk) would be far behind those. Actually I bet WYSH in Clinton and WLIL in Lenoir City probably bill more than the last two.
Suburban AM's can survive but probably not be rebuilt if they're already dead. Small town AM's away from the sales influence of the bigger markets can make a living. But a crummy AM signal in a big city had better either bring in the sheaves or habla espanol.
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scottwmro
Guest
SuperQ said:
Super Q:
I couldn't have said it best. Your right.
I own a suburban AM near Nashville, and yes, it's tough, but it does make enough money to just keep it on the air. My operational money is made off of all day Sunday religion. Anybody that has any sense wouldn't invest in an suburban AM these days, unless it's to do a religious or spanish format.
My Monday thru Saturday format is Hot AC from the ABC Music Format Networks. We sound like WFXY-AM 1490 (Josh's station) up in Middlesboro, KY. I've owned 1560, WMRO-AM and have not had to invest my own money in it. It just takes care of itself!
One day, those formats will move to FM and that will be it for AM.
Scott
Does Horne still own WKVL-AM 850? A group I was involved with "toyed" with the idea of possibly buying that station earlier this year... And, you are absolutely correct!!! WRJZ is one of the better AM billers in the market... I'm very impressed with what the Moffit group has done with all their stations... Speaking of which, how is WRJZ sister AM station WETR-AM 760 doing these days? I was considering relocating in March to manage that station.
Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]
Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]
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scottwmro
Guest
jmtillery said:
Mark,
Why in the world do you want WKVL for? I have a friend that worked for Horne Radio group, and even with it's 50 KW signal daytime, it has NO nighttime. I'm afraid you and your group are flirting with disaster doing that! Why not put your money in a FM. Unless you go all religion or spanish, your doomed on AM in Knoxville!
I wouldn't dare NOT to sink my money into a "Daytime Only" operation in Knoxville or Nashville. Here in Nashville, Peter Davidson's group owns a 2.5 KW daytimer. The format is Urban Gospel. I don't see how it makes any money. He also owns a fulltime station here on 1240, WNVL that is Spanish. I guess it's doing o.k., but carring the weight of 880, WMDB.
That's just my 2 cents worth, but who knows if I'm right?
scottwmro said:
No definitive plans were made to buy anything. We were just "toying" with the idea. Many factors were contingent upon an acquisition. One was whether or not any night-time service could be added, e.g., 1,000 watts. The 50kw daytime two tower directional pattern is what we were attracted to most. And, besides, even as a daytime, radio is basically a "daytime" medium anyway these days. After 6PM, radio listners, and I realize there are always exceptions, turn off the radio and turn on the TV. So, although a decent night signal is always desirable, it isn't always necessary. Radio advertising drops off considerably after dark. It isn't like it was back in the 50s, 60s and 70s and even possibly the 80s when night-time radio was Prime-Time radio. Now it's morning and afternoon drive with some business during middays... As stated above, there are always exceptions, but the general new rule is what I just described. A least that has been my experience in many markets.
Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]
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SuperQ
Guest
Nighttime service on WKVL is out of the question. KOA's protected contour comes to within a few miles of the transmitter site.
The bigger problem is the daytime null toward Birmingham. While the 50 KW is more like 200 KW toward the mountains, it puts only about 2-3 KW toward deep West Knoxville which is where all the city's growth is. During critical hours, it's hard to hear 850 at the Horne studios on Watt Road. But the 90 watts post sunset is clear as a bell in Sevierville.
BTW, it's a three tower array, not two.
The bigger problem is the daytime null toward Birmingham. While the 50 KW is more like 200 KW toward the mountains, it puts only about 2-3 KW toward deep West Knoxville which is where all the city's growth is. During critical hours, it's hard to hear 850 at the Horne studios on Watt Road. But the 90 watts post sunset is clear as a bell in Sevierville.
BTW, it's a three tower array, not two.
Thanks for the correction. I knew it was either two or three towers. I just wasn't clear on which. What do you think the odds would be to add night service with, say, 1,000 watts and directionalize it East, away from KOA, sending nothing West, or would that even be practical?
Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]
Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]
S
SuperQ
Guest
To send 1 or 2 watts toward KOA, I can't even fathom how many towers it would take to have a 500 or 1000 to 1 reduction. It's been looked at by engineers for Dick Broadcasting, the Reverend Mull, Horne Radio and more than a couple of potential buyers.
Nighttime is just totally impractical for that facility. If you wanted to go to that kind of expense to improve the facility, move the daytime towers back to the Southwest and then throw back to the Southeast. Then you could cover West Knoxville adequately.
Or you could buy 860 in Sparta, turn it off, move 850 back to 860 where it was originally and you could get some nighttime power protecting Montreal. But on 850, when its sundown in Denver, its off the air in Knoxville.
Nighttime is just totally impractical for that facility. If you wanted to go to that kind of expense to improve the facility, move the daytime towers back to the Southwest and then throw back to the Southeast. Then you could cover West Knoxville adequately.
Or you could buy 860 in Sparta, turn it off, move 850 back to 860 where it was originally and you could get some nighttime power protecting Montreal. But on 850, when its sundown in Denver, its off the air in Knoxville.
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scottwmro
Guest
SuperQ said:
You're talking about alot of money in an era where the majority of the AM stations in this country are in the red. If this was FM, I would agree, but WKVL, for get about it. I question WHY WKVL even bothers runing 50 KW. I feel 5 KW would be good enough in thier situation.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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SuperQ
Guest
The problem is you couldn't run 5 KW Non-DA, so you would still have to design and build a multi-tower array, Don't forget there is a 50KW station in Birmingham on the same frequency that was there first.
There were times when both Horne and Mull ran 2 or 3 KW off the nighttime transmitter when they were having xmtr problems and you could barely hear it in Farragut with that pattern. During Critical hours you listen to Birmingham. When that station was moved from 860 and turned up to 50 KW in 1965 or 66, the null to the west was just farmland. It's now the heart of the market.
Imagine a Nashville station that fried the earthworms in Ashland City but couldn't be heard in Brentwood.
There were times when both Horne and Mull ran 2 or 3 KW off the nighttime transmitter when they were having xmtr problems and you could barely hear it in Farragut with that pattern. During Critical hours you listen to Birmingham. When that station was moved from 860 and turned up to 50 KW in 1965 or 66, the null to the west was just farmland. It's now the heart of the market.
Imagine a Nashville station that fried the earthworms in Ashland City but couldn't be heard in Brentwood.
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scottwmro
Guest
As far as WATO is concern, no American is going to give him $25,000.00 for the license. One of three things will happen:
A. The license is turned in so stations on that channel or co channels can rasie power.
B. He finds a [EDIT-inflammatory] Mexican group that will give him cash, they will find a tower city, the city will approve it, and here we go with another hispanic radio station. That's just what America needs.
C. Oprah Winfrey will buy it, get her a tower site, with 24 hours of moaning and groning, blaaaaaaaa, YUCK!
A. The license is turned in so stations on that channel or co channels can rasie power.
B. He finds a [EDIT-inflammatory] Mexican group that will give him cash, they will find a tower city, the city will approve it, and here we go with another hispanic radio station. That's just what America needs.
C. Oprah Winfrey will buy it, get her a tower site, with 24 hours of moaning and groning, blaaaaaaaa, YUCK!
scottwmro said:
I'm voting for A to happen... Horne is so stubborn they'd rather turn it in then sell it for less then what they want
I would hate to see that license gone for good but given the scenario that Scott gave us, A would be the best choice.
I am a believer in the old saying "when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Translated meaning is, that if you are going to be in America, speak English.
The other option about Oprah, the most-over-rated woman in America Media,......gee.....scary. Imagine the Oprah Radio Network. On second thought, No lets don't. Not even funny.
I am a believer in the old saying "when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Translated meaning is, that if you are going to be in America, speak English.
The other option about Oprah, the most-over-rated woman in America Media,......gee.....scary. Imagine the Oprah Radio Network. On second thought, No lets don't. Not even funny.
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scottwmro
Guest
radio30 said:
Now this is just a rumor I heard about Doug Horne, so don't take it as the Gospel Truth:
Doug Horne owns the property the WATO towers are on. It's not lease deal. Horne ownes land everwhere, even in my town of Gallatin. He had property to let Home Depot build here, but I was told that deal fell through. I was told he was in to buying and selling land "BIG TIME"!
I was also told that one of the WATO towers was blown down. Is this true? If so, yes it can go back on with an STA. I was told that Doug Horne could make more out of selling the property than what the radio station was bring in.
Now Ladies & Gentlemen, if what I just told you "IS" the Gospel Truth. This doesn't shock me at all. We all know AM is almost a dead horse, except on Friday Night Football games, which now can be put on FM or streamed.
I know that WIRY-AM 1340 in Plattsburg, NY was approched by "Walgreens" to build a Super Drug store on the stations property. The owner, Bill Santa, played it smart. He sold the property to Walgreens, found him another site in an industrial area, and told Walgreens they can not start construction until the station's studio and transmitter was moved. The city will get a new Walgreens, the town's radio station will remain on the air, and everyone will be happy.
Why can't station owners who have thier sites sitting on prime property use thier head. If they want to sell the property, they should find another site, sell the property, then sell the station at it's new site. You would be really rolling in the doe then.
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