WBAI on Station Watch

[badjef]

There are translators in NYC that could certainly fit under the same idea. We are not talking about new transmitters, since NYC is about as maxed as anyplace. But, the existing translators are there.

Of what translators do you speak of? The only existing translator that puts a signal anywhere near NYC is W276AQ 103.1 in Fort Lee. I know the owners aren't inclined to sell (I work for them). There is the 106.3 debacle, but that translator has been relegated through all of the downgrades to near useless. Other than that, you're imagining things that aren't there.

Also, even if a translator *were* somehow to be shoehorned into the dial on NYC and transmit 99 watts from 4 Times Square, it still won't cover a good portion of the market. Because the NYC metro is so geographically large, it's impossible for a translator to cover the 50% of the market, much less all 5 boroughs of NYC. It's a long way from Pehlam bay to the southern tip of Staten Island. It's different in a smaller city, where a 250 watt translator can cover a good chunk of the market.

Since you asked...

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/f...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

92.7, Brooklyn and New York (not Garden City's 92.7)
94.3, Brooklyn
95.1, Brooklyn
95.9, Manhattan
96.7, Brooklyn
98.3, Brooklyn
99.9, Brooklyn
101.5, Manhattan
103.1, Brooklyn
105.5, Manhattan
106.3, New York (we'll see about this one)
107.9, Brooklyn


And you are correct, NYC is huge! I don't expect full Citywide coverage from any of these possibilities. Remember, they are for FM presence, only.

That is the intention, no matter what "they" are saying.

And David, you are right, you need an attorney, but that's why they get paid the big bucks.

Emmis/Disney proved one thing: there is no format not worth trashing for the right deal.

This is NYC!

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[WNTIRadio]

Those are APPLICATIONS, which mean nothing. Most, if not all of them will be dismissed due to the upcoming LPFM window in 2013 because NYC is a "spectrum limited" market.

Those aren't even CP's, so really they're worthless. How many are MX'ed with someone else, same applicant, do they even have a realistic site and primary station (these things always change)... And, most of all, as we've seen, one complaint from another licensed station (in the case of 106.3) which is by the rules, means the translator goes away. Do you think WKLV, WQBU, WKJY/WMGQ, WDHA etc. are going to let these actually go on and eat into their "bonus" coverage outside of their 60dBu??

 

[WNTIRadio]

Plus, those apps have been tied up for almost 10 years from the 2003 window. They're not happening.

 

[DToTheJ]

...MAYBE, NBC Universal and Dial Global could jointly buy WBAI and use it as its new sports network flagship. CBS (and Cumulus) have O&O's for CBS Sports, Clear Channel has O&Os for its FOX Sports Radio. NBC and Dial Global: Zilch.

Not here. In L.A., maybe, but not in New York.

 

[badjef]

Those are APPLICATIONS, which mean nothing. Most, if not all of them will be dismissed due to the upcoming LPFM window in 2013 because NYC is a "spectrum limited" market.

Those aren't even CP's, so really they're worthless. How many are MX'ed with someone else, same applicant, do they even have a realistic site and primary station (these things always change)... And, most of all, as we've seen, one complaint from another licensed station (in the case of 106.3) which is by the rules, means the translator goes away. Do you think WKLV, WQBU, WKJY/WMGQ, WDHA etc. are going to let these actually go on and eat into their "bonus" coverage outside of their 60dBu??

Those stations don't have much choice since the allocation is outside of the protected area.

I don't think Press is hoping to win in the 106.3 Manhattan translator decision - that would be a bonus. The intention is to keep it locked up in court so the legal costs make the translator cost prohibited and dismissed at that time by the current licensee.

As far as them being "Applications", there are allocations made available due to the changes in the FCC's allocation process. When you look at who's applied for these allotments, they are (mostly) churches that probably don't have the budget for a radio station. In come the deeper pockets of the CBSs and CCs, and Disneys. For a "donation", lease the frequency - a win/win for both sides.

Again, all these would be is an FM presence. That is all they are interested in and it appears they can do it by "filling in the holes in their primary AM coverage.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[nd2023]

The allocations may be there but the current rimshots will fight any translator that pops up. Those frequencies are currently home to pirate stations, so we can already see how much interference there will be.

 

[badjef]

The allocations may be there but the current rimshots will fight any translator that pops up.

Refer to above

Those frequencies are currently home to pirate stations, so we can already see how much interference there will be.

Pirates are here today, gone tomorrow. If they find the frequency is being used legitimately, they will look for another.
Always have, always will for fear of being shut down anyway, or just losing interest.
Remember, radio is a business, "pirates" are hobbyists.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[TimeIsTight]

Remember, radio is a business, "pirates" are hobbyists.

Unfortunately, many of the "pirates" have long since left the "hobbyist" stage behind.

I have mostly heard the "pirates" in the Newark and Paterson, NJ areas and several seem to be thriving businesses.

They have regular schedules, provide live feeds of radio broadcasts from their country of origin, and offer public affairs and religious programming. They organize community events that are also promoted in major newspapers. And have many regular sponsors who financially support the entire operation.

They also have a company structure that includes paid positions like program directors, music directors etc.

I suspect some of these operations are far more profitable than some legal broadcast operations in the market.

What is strange is that the biggest pirates seem to have a claim on certain frequencies, operate multiple transmitters in multiple locations and have been doing so, on a daily basis, for years. They blow licensed educational stations on adjacent frequencies away in big chunks of their licensed signal area, and have managed to defy legal challenges and continue to broadcast illegally.

 

[davideduardo]

Unfortunately, many of the "pirates" have long since left the "hobbyist" stage behind.

Absolutely true.

My "favorite" pirate story involves a licensed station's sales call on a Miami area night club. It turned out that the club was already "committed" to advertising on a pirate, including doing remotes. When told that the pirate station was illegal, and that doing business with them might not be a good idea, the sales rep was told, "but they told me that if I advertised anywhere else, they would seen a crew to the club to start fights and get us closed."

Hobbyists? No. Thugs? Yes.

 

[badjef]

Unfortunately, many of the "pirates" have long since left the "hobbyist" stage behind.

Absolutely true.

My "favorite" pirate story involves a licensed station's sales call on a Miami area night club. It turned out that the club was already "committed" to advertising on a pirate, including doing remotes. When told that the pirate station was illegal, and that doing business with them might not be a good idea, the sales rep was told, "but they told me that if I advertised anywhere else, they would seen a crew to the club to start fights and get us closed."

Hobbyists? No. Thugs? Yes.

You find that in all businesses. As long as humans are required, you will see threats and promises. The best and the worst. If you submit to the "bad guys", you will reap what you sow each time.

Sorry, but your club owner knew what he was getting into from the start. They "owned" him from "yes".

I drive a taxi now, in Sa-ra-so-ta!, I have a phrase: "No good comes after Midnight."

In Miami, a large group of immigrants coming to the United States for better opportunities than from the Country they came from, and what kind of examples are they seeing?

...and we wonder why there are wars in this world against the US...

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[reelyreal]

Those stations don't have much choice since the allocation is outside of the protected area.

Contours and allocations don't matter when it comes to translator interference, plain and simple. There's well established FCC policy and precedent to back this up. Contours. Don't. Matter. If a translator exists, and a full power station can show evidence of listeners receiving interference from the translator while trying to receive the full power station, it's game over for the translator.

Besides, a majority of these translators will never see the light of day. Ever. I'd put any amount of money on it.

 

[davideduardo]

Sorry, but your club owner knew what he was getting into from the start. They "owned" him from "yes".

They did not offer advertising requiring a "yes" or "no." They said, "buy advertising or we will destroy your business." Extortion, plain and simple.
[/quote]

In Miami, a large group of immigrants coming to the United States for better opportunities than from the Country they came from, and what kind of examples are they seeing?

The pirate, which plunked itself down right next to Power 96 on the dial, was run by folks whose native language was Kreyol.

[/quote]...and we wonder why there are wars in this world against the US...
[/quote]

In this case, they came from the François Duvalier Graduate School of Business.

 

[recto101]

The question is: Which AM would CBS be willing to sell?
WINS doesn't have that perfect AM signal but it is a valuable legacy brand. Of the three, 1010 would likely be the frequency to sell, and the WFAN Sports talk format would be the one to move to FM freeing 660 for the WINS format.

Moving WINS to a 50 kW non-D or full-market ESB B FM presents another problem. On directional 1010, WINS superserves NYC. Move it to 660 AM (50 kW non-D) or 99.5 FM (class B ESB) in its current format and IMHO, it would fail. WCBS-AM's strength has always been in the suburbs, WINS' has always been NYC.

If WINS were to land on a full-market AM or FM, the format would have to adjusted to serve listeners in areas they don't reach on 1010. A news-intensive (news blocks in AM Drive, Midday and PM Drive) talk format, similar to classic KGO comes to mind as a possibility.

Even if CBS were able to acquire 99.5, I don't think they'd put WFAN there, right next to 98.7 ESPN. If WFAN goes to FM, it'll be on 92.3 or 102.7.

WINS could never have talk format mainly because it has a larger all-news audience than WCBS or 880. Also WINS could never sell 1010 simply because of high ratings and one of the highest revenue in the NYC market after WCBS-AM or WCBS-FM.

 

[TimeIsTight]

In this case, they came from the François Duvalier Graduate School of Business.

And it is likely that some of their goons may have been former members of Duvalier's Tonton Macoute, the corrupt and feared paramilitary organization described on Wikipedia this way:

Haitians called this force the "Tonton Macoutes", after the Haitian Creole mythological Tonton Macoute ("Uncle Gunnysack") bogeyman who kidnaps and punishes unruly children by snaring them in a gunnysack (macoute) and carrying them off to be consumed at breakfast.

The same tough guy types are apparently active in pirate broadcasting in the New York area too, along with Spanish speakers from the other side of the Island of Hispaniola and similar groups of English speakers from the Island of Jamaica.

And then there are the Mexicans and Central American pirates.

The one thing they all have in common is that they don't play by the rules.

 

[nd2023]

What is strange is that the biggest pirates seem to have a claim on certain frequencies, operate multiple transmitters in multiple locations and have been doing so, on a daily basis, for years. They blow licensed educational stations on adjacent frequencies away in big chunks of their licensed signal area, and have managed to defy legal challenges and continue to broadcast illegally.

I recently heard a pirate simulcast on 96.1. They had the exact same programming airing from two transmitters on 96.1, one in the Bronx and one in Newark. On the NJ Turnpike right after crossing the GWB you could hear both of those transmitters interfere with each other since the programming wasn't perfectly synchronized, they were about a second off. On a selective radio, it would be possible to hear that 96.1 pirate from Elizabeth, NJ to New Rochelle, NY, almost 40 miles. It might be possible that this 96.1 simulcast may have another transmitter in Brooklyn since I know there's a 96.1 pirate there.

There are so many pirates on the first adjacents. I lose HD reception on 92.3 in the Bronx, within sight of Empire, for an unexplained reason. Unexplained, until I tune to 92.1 and 92.5, both have pirate stations on them. The IBOC isn't killing the pirate signals on the first adjacents, the pirates are so powerful that they're killing HD reception of the licensed stations.

I'm surprised the Occupy people haven't started a pirate station of their own. I don't recall Occupy Wall Street ever having a pirate station broadcast from Zuccotti Park. They're already occupying a park, so might as well occupy a frequency. With Occupy's legal resources, they could perhaps challenge the FCC as they would make it into a free speech issue and even take it up to the Supreme Court and help pave the way for more locally owned LPFMs.

 

[TimeIsTight]

I'm surprised the Occupy people haven't started a pirate station of their own.

Actually, the "Occupy" people did try to occupy a legal radio station, WBAI.

Late one Thursday night, it was like listening to 1960s radical radio all over again. The Occupy group had marched down to BAI's Wall Street studios, and had gotten as far as the hall outside the live on-air studio.

Septuagenarian broadcaster Bob Fass, who started Free-Form Radio Unnameable back in 1963, was on the air and he did give the occupiers a chance to speak. They were polite and even sounded a bit nervous, and then Fass and some of his "old school" radical companions let loose with a long loud and angry defense of the station. In effect, they were saying that they had been fighting for this station for nearly 50-years and they weren't going to give an inch of ground. I just had this picture of the old gang swinging their canes at the young activists. It was great radio theater that took up the last 20-minutes of "Radio Unnameable." Obviously, the young folks didn't get their way, even if their cause was otherwise getting a lot of support from the BAI loyalists. It was a classic BAI moment of the kind not heard much in recent decades, and IIRC it did result in the Occupy people being given some regular air-time to report on their situation and to let their views be heard. But, unfortunately for them, few listeners hear anything on WBAI these days.
-----

As to the radio pirates being able to "occupy" certain frequencies across the entire New York Market, something tells me that this may be where the "Tonton-like" thugs come in. I suspect more than one "hobbyist" pirate, broadcasting from his bedroom, has gotten a knock at the door from "organization" thugs with direction finders to intimidate him to turn his transmitter off to protect the signals of the "Big Operators." And that much the same way the Mafia divided up the territory, and had family fights, some of the more organized radio pirates act the same way.

I am sure the little guys would much rather get a visit from the FCC than from the "Frequency Protection Thugs" from the big organizations. Some of these radio pirates are just as nasty as the other "Pirates from the Caribbean" of history, you really don't want to mess with them if you don't have to. And that's why this will all eventually end with some kind of police swat team effort, jail time, and deportations. And turf wars over frequencies may be what eventually brings the police in.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Those stations don't have much choice since the allocation is outside of the protected area.

I don't think Press is hoping to win in the 106.3 Manhattan translator decision - that would be a bonus. The intention is to keep it locked up in court so the legal costs make the translator cost prohibited and dismissed at that time by the current licensee.

As far as them being "Applications", there are allocations made available due to the changes in the FCC's allocation process. When you look at who's applied for these allotments, they are (mostly) churches that probably don't have the budget for a radio station. In come the deeper pockets of the CBSs and CCs, and Disneys. For a "donation", lease the frequency - a win/win for both sides.

Again, all these would be is an FM presence. That is all they are interested in and it appears they can do it by "filling in the holes in their primary AM coverage.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Jeff you seem to have a comprehension problem. I'm not trying to be rue here, but just pointing it out. Press had no intention of "getting" 106.3. All they wanted to do, which they succeeded at, was getting it severely downgraded so as not to impact their fringe reception. Those stations DO have a choice OUTSIDE of their protected area... NO translator can interfere with a class A, B1, B, C0, C, C1, C2, C3 station anywhere... inside or outside the protected contour. All it takes is a couple of listener complaints. Google "Detroit Translator Shut Down"; it will expand on what I am trying to get across.

There is NO chance of these applications being processed... anyone can fill out an app, but whether or not it is viable is up to the FCC to decide.

Churches or Disneys doesn't matter, NYC has been declared a "spectrum limited" market, which means that all of those holes are going to be kept open for potential LPFM stations, which a scant few may be able to get shoehorned in.