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WBAI Struggles
- Thread starter Theater of My Mind
- Start date
WBAI To Be Evicted From Empire State Building
The continuing soap opera that is Pacifica Radio has taken another turn.
http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/89144/wbai-to-be-evicted-from-empire-state-building/
The continuing soap opera that is Pacifica Radio has taken another turn.
http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/89144/wbai-to-be-evicted-from-empire-state-building/
Moving to 4TS will move WBAI 8 blocks further from WJBR, but it will lose its grandfathered status, so it might have to reduce power to avoid being short spaced. There will be a period of static on 99.5 in central NJ, instead of WBAI and WJBR fighting.
Their best bet is to swap with 103.9 and use the cash to buy an AM station (and pay its back rent)
Their best bet is to swap with 103.9 and use the cash to buy an AM station (and pay its back rent)
At this point the best solution to this situation is a sale/swap with the WNYC Foundation. This would allow WQXR to relocate to Class B @99.5 and then to relocate WBAI to QXR's current backup at 4 times Square. The technical challenges are relatively minimal given that all equipment exists and the STL fairly easy.
This of course assumes that WNYC would be interested in such a deal.
An independent move to 4T.S will end WBAI's grandfathered spacing but the lower HAAT -might- negate the need for TPO reduction. Pacifica never did increase WBAI to the allowed full 6KW and it is currently approx 4.3KW.
Realistically, all of the above probably signals a slow end to Pacifica's presence here in NYC. It also points out the relative decline in importance of OTA radio in the alternative media scene.
AM has a dying legacy audience. There is no future in AM. People who make these suggestions often have an ulterior motive in simply killing off the sorts of programs and ideology that Pacifica represents.
Chan/NYC
This of course assumes that WNYC would be interested in such a deal.
An independent move to 4T.S will end WBAI's grandfathered spacing but the lower HAAT -might- negate the need for TPO reduction. Pacifica never did increase WBAI to the allowed full 6KW and it is currently approx 4.3KW.
Realistically, all of the above probably signals a slow end to Pacifica's presence here in NYC. It also points out the relative decline in importance of OTA radio in the alternative media scene.
AM has a dying legacy audience. There is no future in AM. People who make these suggestions often have an ulterior motive in simply killing off the sorts of programs and ideology that Pacifica represents.
Chan/NYC
Depends on what you mean by "alternative media scene." That really ended when FM became mainstream 35 years ago.
On the other hand, the decision to restrict the lower part of the FM band for non-commercial educational use ensured a place for alternative media. WBAI pre-dated that decision, and never chose to relocate there. But there are still quite a few alternative operations there, although there are more diverse choices in other cities like Boston.
I really think the loss of grandfathering is going to be a big issue among the folks at WBAI. Any pullback from the maginot line they've built is a defeat for their cause.
If the eviction of WBAI's transmission facilities from the Empire State Building is effective the beginning of July, I wonder whether WBAI may have to go off the air for several weeks, or even months. Wouldn't it take at least a few weeks to secure FCC permission to relocate them to 4 Times Square, assuming the Building's owners agree to take in financially-challenged 'BAI as a tenant?
Since close to nobody listens to those programs... in a market of over 18 million less than 3 thousand persons are listening on average... it can be said that Pacifica killed them off without any outside help.
You are thinking in obsolete commercial stereotypes. Alternative media today isn't about hippie stoners playing King Crimson records.
Today it is about discussing often controversial issues that affect ethnic. racial, sexual minorities as well as social issues that even the well-endowed non-comms such as WNYC won't touch for fear of offending their corporate underwriters.
WBAI was/is capable of this due to it's independence. But they've gotten badly off the rails and became the fiefdom of a few individuals. That is a separate issue.
Long-term (8-11 years) OTA radio for this sort of niche fare will be a luxury, I.P. will supplant it. Until then FM is essential. However a full class B that reaches the hinterlands and costs almost 600K/yr is not. The audience for what WBAI is now, can be served with a signal that reaches all five boroughs, Westchester, some of Bergen and Jersey City-Hoboken. The hick-sticks aren't interested and won't contribute -they aren't worth the added expense.
Chan/NYC
That is kind of a snaky response Mr. Edwardo, Gleason, David G or whatever it is this time around.
WBAI may not be of much interest to one whose perspective and career is totally commercial oriented, but they were, and to some extent still are a worthy operation. As you know there are operators on the AM band such as Salem that have barely a tenth of the AQH that WBAI has in those same periods.
-Chan
If Eduardo had his way, everything would be a voicetracked commercial nightmare with as much low overhead as possible. He's against anything "weird" or "different" and only cares about ratings...he's a pure businessman. Stations like WBAI and Indie 103.1 confuse him because he doesn't get it. To him, every station should be like Z100.
Awful station. Just end it.
Eduardo is my second given name. G is the first initial of my last name. Me thinks thou makest much ado over nothing.
In the context of mass media, a melieu in which any radio station is a part, WBAI has essentially no listeners. Lest we devolve into a tree-falls-in-a-forest debate, it's probably sufficient to say that the station's usefulness has long past and the blame rests on the dysfunctional management of the foundation and their inability to understand that a format made of such a smorgasbörd of programs can't exist in the media world of the las twenty or thirty years.
Actually, the Salem stations have AQH listening levels at or above those of WBAI.
If you paid any attention to my background, you'd see that I am a essentially a programmer who, at points in my career, had to either own or manage stations to be able to program as I wished. If you consider building the first FM station in Northern South America when there was no commercial potential not to be different then you and I use a different dictionary.
"Eduardo is my second given name. G is the first initial of my last name. Me thinks thou makest much ado over nothing. "
Oh, hell. Just pick a name -ANY name and stick to it.
"In the context of mass media, a melieu in which any radio station is a part, WBAI has essentially no listeners. Lest we devolve into a tree-falls-in-a-forest debate, it's probably sufficient to say that the station's usefulness has long past and the blame rests on the dysfunctional management of the foundation and their inability to understand that a format made of such a smorgasbörd of programs can't exist in the media world of the las twenty or thirty years. "
The "no listeners" argument could be statistically applied to many of this market's FM and the majority of the AM's. Some of those low-rated stations such as WQXR and it's parent WNYC a&f have highly desirable listeners and, in spit of their low ratings they have operating budgets the dwarf the gross billing of all but a few commercial operators....They provide a product that doesn't involve screaming hucksters every 2-6 minutes.
I will agree that aural-only entertainment is a declining entity.
"Actually, the Salem stations have AQH listening levels at or above those of WBAI."
This is a cute little sleight-of-hand on stats. Sure, if you combine Salem's TWO AM bilge pumps some of their dayparts probably do exceed WBAI's . However, WBAI -wherever it's signal ends up still has potential for a future. Nothing on AM does, except, perhaps some of the ethnic services. Here in NYC there is a huge Asian community of various flavors. Most are quite affluent -nearly nothing to serve them other than one of Arthur Liu's tiny AM rimshots.
Chan/NYC
Oh, hell. Just pick a name -ANY name and stick to it.
"In the context of mass media, a melieu in which any radio station is a part, WBAI has essentially no listeners. Lest we devolve into a tree-falls-in-a-forest debate, it's probably sufficient to say that the station's usefulness has long past and the blame rests on the dysfunctional management of the foundation and their inability to understand that a format made of such a smorgasbörd of programs can't exist in the media world of the las twenty or thirty years. "
The "no listeners" argument could be statistically applied to many of this market's FM and the majority of the AM's. Some of those low-rated stations such as WQXR and it's parent WNYC a&f have highly desirable listeners and, in spit of their low ratings they have operating budgets the dwarf the gross billing of all but a few commercial operators....They provide a product that doesn't involve screaming hucksters every 2-6 minutes.
I will agree that aural-only entertainment is a declining entity.
"Actually, the Salem stations have AQH listening levels at or above those of WBAI."
This is a cute little sleight-of-hand on stats. Sure, if you combine Salem's TWO AM bilge pumps some of their dayparts probably do exceed WBAI's . However, WBAI -wherever it's signal ends up still has potential for a future. Nothing on AM does, except, perhaps some of the ethnic services. Here in NYC there is a huge Asian community of various flavors. Most are quite affluent -nearly nothing to serve them other than one of Arthur Liu's tiny AM rimshots.
Chan/NYC
Does it really make any difference? Each is a piece of my whole name, which is more than most posters use.
The cume, possibly a better measure of a very lightly listened to station, for WMCA and WNYM is, each, greater than that of WBAI on average. Considering that both the Salem stations are AM, and the useful coverage is less than an ESB FM, that means that either of them does have at least somewhat greater listening than WBAI.
For reference, the 65 dbu of WBAI covers just under 14 million people, while the daytime 10 mV/m of WMCA covers 9 million and for WNYM it is 10 million. At night, each is reduced significantly giving a huge advantage to WBAI, were any listeners to actually care.
Of course, in the real world WNYM and WMCA pay their bills and pay their staff and their vendors. WBAI so often does not even do that.
It's worth commenting that when I apply a "low/no listening" evaluation to WBAI, I am the subject of vitriol and invective, yet you seem to feel calling Salem's two stations "bilge pumps" is appropriate. Droll.
You may believe that AM is dead, and I might agree that AM is on a decline, but the end is not this year or the next or the year after. And the niche services such as the religious stations and the ethnic ones are still profitable when owned by competent folks (and the same applies to the well run non-commercial stations which serve specific purposes and honor their commitments).
Just as in LA and San Francisco (where the Asian population is over 12% of the market), the problem is that "Asian" is a geography, not a language and not a culture. Do we want Mandarin or Cantonese Chinese, or Korean, or Tagalog or Thai or Japanese or Vietnamese or even, perhaps, Hindi? No single group is big enough to warrant the cost of a major signal being placed in service to that group.
As to calling Mr. Liu's stations "rimshots" 1480 is not a rimshot... it is licensed to New York City. And WPAT, licensed to Patterson, was once a Top 10 station in the entire market. All of Liu's signals are appropriate for serving the non-assimilated communities they cater to as they tend to be highly concentrated within the signals of his four stations.
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"Does it [name] really make any difference?" No, it doesn't. .
"The cume, possibly a better measure of a very lightly listened to station, for WMCA and WNYM is, each, greater than that of WBAI on average. Considering that both the Salem stations are AM, and the useful coverage is less than an ESB FM, that means that either of them does have at least somewhat greater listening than WBAI. "
-WNYM has daytime hours when they are at full power and still have 300-400 listeners. You know the numbers as well, or better, than I.
"Of course, in the real world WNYM and WMCA pay their bills and pay their staff and their vendors. WBAI so often does not even do that. "
-On the surface that is a fair, if somewhat snarky (again) point. Then look at HOW they pay those bills. And endless parade of religionist hucksters on 570. A parade of third-tier propagandists who daily accuse Democrats and President Obama of being: Socialist. Communist. Kenyan. Muslim. Trying to destroy America. I don't know if you've ever been able to actually hear this garbage, but calling it "bilge" is being charitable.
I did not say AM is dead. But that is clearly the trend. Even the top billers such as 660-880-1010 are going to have unsaleable demos in 4-5 years. You mention that at one time WPAT was in the top-ten (12+?) Well, at that time WABC was often #1 while they were Top-40. Ironically, they are almost out of the top-40 in saleable demos now.
I understand your point about the diversity of Asian communities. But it is an under-served audience and it IS time for an FM -even if it must be block programmed.
"As to calling Mr. Liu's stations "rimshots" 1480 is not a rimshot... it is licensed to New York City." The COl may be. The signal is not. Fourteen years ago Mr Liu made a well intentioned effort to replace the loss of a Pop Standards format using that stick. He even had a billboard here in Manhattan. The signal was nearly unusable in most of the City and the station ridiculed. There may be some miracle of propagational alchemy that hops that signal over Manhattan into Queens where the Chinese are....but, it is time for an FM.
Chan/NYC
"The cume, possibly a better measure of a very lightly listened to station, for WMCA and WNYM is, each, greater than that of WBAI on average. Considering that both the Salem stations are AM, and the useful coverage is less than an ESB FM, that means that either of them does have at least somewhat greater listening than WBAI. "
-WNYM has daytime hours when they are at full power and still have 300-400 listeners. You know the numbers as well, or better, than I.
"Of course, in the real world WNYM and WMCA pay their bills and pay their staff and their vendors. WBAI so often does not even do that. "
-On the surface that is a fair, if somewhat snarky (again) point. Then look at HOW they pay those bills. And endless parade of religionist hucksters on 570. A parade of third-tier propagandists who daily accuse Democrats and President Obama of being: Socialist. Communist. Kenyan. Muslim. Trying to destroy America. I don't know if you've ever been able to actually hear this garbage, but calling it "bilge" is being charitable.
I did not say AM is dead. But that is clearly the trend. Even the top billers such as 660-880-1010 are going to have unsaleable demos in 4-5 years. You mention that at one time WPAT was in the top-ten (12+?) Well, at that time WABC was often #1 while they were Top-40. Ironically, they are almost out of the top-40 in saleable demos now.
I understand your point about the diversity of Asian communities. But it is an under-served audience and it IS time for an FM -even if it must be block programmed.
"As to calling Mr. Liu's stations "rimshots" 1480 is not a rimshot... it is licensed to New York City." The COl may be. The signal is not. Fourteen years ago Mr Liu made a well intentioned effort to replace the loss of a Pop Standards format using that stick. He even had a billboard here in Manhattan. The signal was nearly unusable in most of the City and the station ridiculed. There may be some miracle of propagational alchemy that hops that signal over Manhattan into Queens where the Chinese are....but, it is time for an FM.
Chan/NYC
I think YOU'RE the one thinking about stereotypes. No one, including WBAI, is talking about that. However, there still are stoners at college stations playing King Crimson records. Not far from NYC.
Yes the poor folks at WBAI have lost their way and misused their heritage. That's what happens when you're more concerned with the revolution IN the studio than the one taking place on the streets. It's really a shame. But they will continue to fight for their cause because that's what people do. I have known community radio where the radio station is so tied in with the community that they're able to pay their bills from listener support. Unfortunately, WBAI is not that kind of radio station. They would do better as an all-ethnic station focusing on those underserved minorities who end up on pirate stations in Union and other suburbs. That would take community outreach.
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You reach a point where just talking about community issues becomes tiresome... you've gotta get out there and actually do something. There are hundreds of community radio stations out there that still function, serve their communities well, and get the support that they need.
At the same time, the successful community stations that buck the trend of large corporate radio in 2014 understand that you need to have BROAD appeal as a BROADcast station.
No matter how noble the cause, a station can not be successful without appealing to a large enough group to sustain operations financially.
At the same time, the successful community stations that buck the trend of large corporate radio in 2014 understand that you need to have BROAD appeal as a BROADcast station.
No matter how noble the cause, a station can not be successful without appealing to a large enough group to sustain operations financially.
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