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WCBS-FM TOP 20 COUNTDOWN-8/17/1970

I'd have to go with "influence" and importance over time on this one, rather than chart success. I'd never even heard of Bobby Rydell until I got XM, and I can imagine nobody under 30 has any concept who he is.

Velvet Underground, on the other hand, I probably knew about at age 10. No chart hits, but I'm sure plenty of airplay on early FM and album radio. More importantly, there would be no REM, U2, or countless other bands without them.

Ramones are another good example. Did they ever chart? Doubtful. But I'd put them in before, say, John Denver, Grand Funk Railroad, or Jim Croce, who all scored big in the seventies.
 
By the way, I should add I personally enjoy Bobby Rydell and don't really care for Velvet Underground. I'm just saying importance-wise, Velvet Underground ranks higher.
 
the Velvets never got any FM NY airplay in their day, nor did the Stooges, Dolls, etc; FM in NY was all hippy dippy Melanie/New Riders/Judy Collins/ acoustic/eat yer earthshoes/soft/namby pamby hog wash;
no wonder DISCO came along for the masses and PUNK came along for the hipsters
 
oldies76 said:
adma said:
If you think Bobby Rydell is worthier than the Velvet Underground, you need your head examined.
Click to expand...

Velvet Underground...ZERO Billboard hits..big late 60's band..but no hits, just cuts

Bobby Rydell...29 charted hits, including a #2 "Wild One"

Take you pick.
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Case in point. And I guess Thomas Kinkade's the greatest living artist, huh, Cletus?

Edit: okay, that's unnecessarily cruel. However, keep in mind that that's what such logic's gonna be faced with by whomever looks after the R&R H of F.

That said, I'm neither here nor there about Bobby Rydell making it into the Hall of Fame; sure, he may have had a lot of hits, but he was still roughly middling as teen idols went. As hitmakers go, he's as "essential" as the REOs and Journeys of a later age, if you get my drift.

However, that doesn't mean I'd kick him off an ideal oldies station, either; in fact, I'd rather go more "in-depth" than the token play of "Wild One" or whatever...
 
Agreed on Rydell...actually to go fan for a second ;), the one Rydell song that I rarely hear is "Swinging School"...

Andrea
 
XM plays that one quite a bit. Then again, they kinda play everything. (Including lots of Marvelettes.)

I'd say "Sway" is a pretty cool song by Mr. Rydell. A bit cheesey, I suppose....
 
If you think Bobby Rydell is worthier than the Velvet Underground, you need your head examined.
Click to expand...
It is obvious that this quote came from someone who is way too young to have any concept of pre Beatles music. When you have a complete working knowledge of all approximately 1300 1955-1963 hits then your opinion might mean something. Who, actually, did artists like Velvet Underground influence? The answer is.....almost nobody. Why.....you ask?
Those artists got played almost exclusively on album rock stations like WNEW-FM. Unfortunately, WNEW-FM's ratings, over the years, were always lousy. This is the same theory that if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound? Very few people heard that music which equates to zero sales which equates to who cares. You may not remember this but, I do. Dave Herman, who was WNEW-FM's morning man in the early 70s pulled a zero in the spring 1972 Arbitron rating book. In the words of Chubby Checker, "how low can you go". So, again, who were influenced by these artists? NOBODY.....BECAUSE NOBODY HEARD THEM WHICH EQUATES TO ZERO RECORD SALES What I just said about Velvet Underground could be applicable to a ton of groups just like them. Who cares about Lou Reed today? Disco Duck was more influential than anything that Velvet Underground or any group like them ever did. The reason is that people actually heard Disco Duck. It went to number one nationally and sold a few million copies. I am not suggesting that Rick Dees should be in any hall of fame but, the cases of prebeatles artists who had tons of hits are a different story. Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell were so big that they each play about 100 dates a year in various size venues. They wouldn't be able to live off of their hits for forty years if they weren't huge. They have stood the test of time and while they play all those concerts and their popularity is still huge, what are artists like Lou Reed doing? Lou Reed and most of the other similar album rock acts are but a memory for the few who care about them. Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell had about 18 top 20 hits apiece. Velvet Underground and groups like them had zero hits and zero sales. There are many 1955-1963 artists who should be in the rock n' roll hall of fame. Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell are just two examples. They each sold millions of records, had tons of hits and have stood the musical test of time considering how many concerts they each do per year presently. MY SUGGESTION IS LEARN ALL 1300 1955-1963 HITS AND THEN YOU WILL HAVE A SHOT OF SAYING SOMETHING THAT HAS SOME VALIDITY.
 
That said, I'm neither here nor there about Bobby Rydell making it into the Hall of Fame; sure, he may have had a lot of hits, but he was still roughly middling as teen idols went. As hitmakers go, he's as "essential" as the REOs and Journeys of a later age, if you get my drift.
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One more thing, if you think Bobby Rydell is middling for a teen idol, how do you account for the fact that he had more top 20 hits than any other teen idol and over double the top 20 hits of Frankie Avalon? IF YOU CONTINUE TO REWRITE THE HISTORY OF ROCK N' ROLL AND DISTORT REALITY LIKE THIS, YOU MAY QUALIFY FOR A JOB TENDING WCBS-FM'S AUTOMATION SYSTEM.
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell are just two examples. They each sold millions of records, had tons of hits and have stood the musical test of time considering how many concerts they each do per year presently. [/color]
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Oh yeah!! Chubby Checker's "The Twist" going #1 in 1960 AND in 1962 should say something! The ONLY artist to chart the same song twice, over 2 different years and go #1. Not to mention the success of Limbo Rock and Let's Twist Again. The Twist was huge in the early 60's, as The Hustle was in the mid 70's.
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
That said, I'm neither here nor there about Bobby Rydell making it into the Hall of Fame; sure, he may have had a lot of hits, but he was still roughly middling as teen idols went. As hitmakers go, he's as "essential" as the REOs and Journeys of a later age, if you get my drift.
Click to expand...
One more thing, if you think Bobby Rydell is middling for a teen idol, how do you account for the fact that he had more top 20 hits than any other teen idol and over double the top 20 hits of Frankie Avalon? IF YOU CONTINUE TO REWRITE THE HISTORY OF ROCK N' ROLL AND DISTORT REALITY LIKE THIS, YOU MAY QUALIFY FOR A JOB TENDING WCBS-FM'S AUTOMATION SYSTEM.
Click to expand...

Look, pal, I knew Bobby Rydell before I knew the Velvet Underground, too. There's nothing to prove.

Except, maybe, your axe-grinding tyranny-of-the-majority cultural philistinism. Which, combined with your bizarre manner of posting with bouts of all-caps and font colours and whatnot, makes you sound like just another aging, angry conservative-white-male radio vet losing his marbles...
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
Look, pal, I knew Bobby Rydell before I knew the Velvet Underground, too. There's nothing to prove.

Except, maybe, your axe-grinding tyranny-of-the-majority cultural philistinism. Which, combined with your bizarre manner of posting with bouts of all-caps and font colours and whatnot, makes you sound like just another aging, angry conservative-white-male radio vet losing his marbles...
Click to expand...
A-I like color.
B-SOMETIMES LARGER FONTS ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE A POINT.
C-I am not angry.
D-I am as far from being conservative as you could get.
E-My marbles are in proper functioning order.
WHEN I SEE SOMETHING RIDICULOUS, I HAVE TO RESPOND TO IT.
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How is it ridiculous? I'm not recommending that the Velvet Underground be played alongside Bobby Rydell on oldies radio--that's bizarrely presumptious; in fact, I regret the oldies eclipse of Rydell as much as anyone. (And so would Lou Reed, I suppose.)

But it's another thing to go on on a bizarre rant about how the Velvet Underground made no impact whatsoever. These days, it's like dismissing homosexuality as an irrelevant marginal lifestyle not unlike bestiality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistinism

There's a reason why you lost control of the narrative, kiddo.
 
Oh yeah!! Chubby Checker's "The Twist" going #1 in 1960 AND in 1962 should say something! The ONLY artist to chart the same song twice, over 2 different years and go #1. Not to mention the success of Limbo Rock and Let's Twist Again. The Twist was huge in the early 60's, as The Hustle was in the mid 70's.
first of all, Bobby Boris Pickett charted "Monster Mash" in the 60s and the 70s..
secondly, The Velvet Underground didn't sell a lot of records or get airplay, but their cumulative image/influence on direction was enormous, and you may know 13 million hits between 2 BC and 2008, but you don't understand the difference between POPULARITY(selling a lot,being heard and liked for a while like the prom queen for a year) and INFLUENCE(not being the prom queen but going on to rule the universe in decades that follow;
Patti Smith had one top 40 hit and was dismissed as a punk rock cast off but there's a new motion picture about her playing East and West coast, numerous books, and people like Michael Stipe of REM (who sold a few records, I hear)who claim her as a major influence
......The New York Dolls got no radio airplay or sales in their day but GUNS N ROSES(who sold a few records), when they recorded an album of their influences(The Spaghetti Incident), included a track by The Dolls and a track by solo Dolls member Johnny Thunders,claiming The Dolls as a major force of their creation;
the same is true of Morrissey(major hit maker in the UK), former leader of The Smiths(seminal 80s band) who recently forced a NY Dolls reunion(of the survivors) crediting them with his very existence...
I haven't seen a Debbie Boone film making the rounds,or 19 books about David Gates and Bread in the racks lately;
there is a very big diffrence between (lasting) influence and (temporary) popularity
 
Very very good post Lalumia, from a fan who has all the Bobby Rydell and Chubby Checker 45s ... I even have a Bobby Rydell Greatest Hits LP which on one side is off-center. But you make great points, Bobby and Chubby are just about MIA on any classic hits/oldies radio stations. I wonder how much payola and "chart" action accounted for their songs' sales.

Now just for you, a line from today's LARadio.com (from Don Barrett):


On this date (August 28th in music history)--
1961 - Marvelettes' Please Mr. Postman debuts on Hot 100; would be Motown's first number one.
 
lalumia said:
first of all, Bobby Boris Pickett charted "Monster Mash" in the 60s and the 70s..
Click to expand...


Right, but "Monster Mash did not go #1 the second time around, only in 1962.

Almost forgot Checker's other smash..."PONY TIME"!
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
I am obviously heavily involved in the delivery of 50s and 60s music.
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Radio Truth..seriously try AM 1350 online KDZA, Pueblo, Co. You will be delighted 10x over! They play tons of 50's mixed with music thru the 60's and early 70's. CBS-FM is obviously not for you, which is fine. The 50's and 60's were extraordinary years for music too and KDZA AM 1350 will take you to that time.
 
Yet the irony is that, if you want the genuine reverence and good will paid t/w the likes of Bobby Rydell and Chubby Checker, it's hard to do better than, roughly speaking, the Velvet Underground/WFMU axis of so-called marginal fruits, nuts, and flakes. Because that's where the brains, the historical sensitivity, and the creative respect lies. Whether in the short or long term, such a crowd would gladly support their addition to the R&R H of F, in principle--and *without* resorting to this pointy-headed-elitist-conspiracy-theory rhetoric, which has probably inadvertently damaged the case in the name of upholding it. (Sort of like, if you're gonna advance the case for painterly realism in art, it's best to clam up about abstract and conceptualist art being "elitist stuff nobody's interested in", because you'll only look like a reactionary crank.)

Meanwhile, if you want the embodiment of short-sighted ignorant twits who brush off Bobby and Chubby as washed-up old hat--well, look no further than the present (or at least, what the industry imagines to be the present) oldies *ahem* classic hits audience. If you're programming such fare, the enemy is you, a la Pogo. You generated those ad-friendly casual-listener nincompoops--or "groupies", as Radio Truth likes to refer to.

But, re

I am obviously heavily involved in the delivery of 50s and 60s music.
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I think there may be an issue here among those "heavily involved" who actually lived through the period, esp. in something like the radio profession--and lived through it, to a fault. Because in a sense, the advent of Rolling Stone and the rock press and "serious" rock history/conoisseurship caught them at the wrong end of a cultural paradigm shift--like, these young hippies and bohos and whippersnappers were hijacking the rock-history narrative, making it to be some big profound cultural thing rather than simply "something people enjoy". And unfortunately, this so-called hijacked narrative is what fundamentally led to and defines the R&R H of F.

Maybe it didn't help that this newfangled rock press was (like progressive FM) birthed somewhat in reaction to the loud-DJ/two-minute-hit trip--yet even when noted rock scribes celebrated rather than dismissed "radio pop", I think there was a certain distrust by the older radio-culture generation. Just as these days, they don't trust the WFMU crowd.

Thus...we get this RADIO TRUTH situation today. And given his rants about "groupies", or his harking back to real radio groupies (overaged or underaged) visiting poor schmucks in the studio, one wonders where his love lies, or whether there even is any love in the first place...
 
Radio Truth..seriously try AM 1350 online KDZA, Pueblo, Co. You will be delighted 10x over! They play tons of 50's mixed with music thru the 60's and early 70's. CBS-FM is obviously not for you, which is fine. The 50's and 60's were extraordinary years for music too and KDZA AM 1350 will take you to that time.
Click to expand...

I don't really need anyplace to hear 50s and 60s music other than my own service which plays more 50s and 60s music than any radio station or satellite service in existence. Not only do I hear all the songs, I hear the correct versions of each song with superior audio processing that makes all the stuff sound better than on any other venue. Try to imagine the audio of mid 60s WABC but, with cd quality frequency response. That's why I am sooooo down on WCBS-FM's audio processing. I know it can be done better because I do it better.

I think there may be an issue here among those "heavily involved" who actually lived through the period, esp. in something like the radio profession--and lived through it, to a fault. Because in a sense, the advent of Rolling Stone and the rock press and "serious" rock history/conoisseurship caught them at the wrong end of a cultural paradigm shift--like, these young hippies and bohos and whippersnappers were hijacking the rock-history narrative, making it to be some big profound cultural thing rather than simply "something people enjoy". And unfortunately, this so-called hijacked narrative is what fundamentally led to and defines the R&R H of F.

Maybe it didn't help that this newfangled rock press was (like progressive FM) birthed somewhat in reaction to the loud-DJ/two-minute-hit trip--yet even when noted rock scribes celebrated rather than dismissed "radio pop", I think there was a certain distrust by the older radio-culture generation. Just as these days, they don't trust the WFMU crowd.

Thus...we get this RADIO TRUTH situation today. And given his rants about "groupies", or his harking back to real radio groupies (overaged or underaged) visiting poor schmucks in the studio, one wonders where his love lies, or whether there even is any love in the first place...
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I am not exactly sure how to react to this quote but, I'll give it a shot. As far as Rolling Stone magazine goes, I never really thought it had much validity as it has never really recognized the pre 1964 era. This is the same feeling I get with the Rock N' Roll Hall Of Fame. I have been involved in radio for a long time on a number of levels. I remember what radio was like as a kid. After hearing the djs and stations sound bigger than life, a station like CBS-FM sounds pretty inferior to me today. CBS-FM today even sounds inferior to CBS-FM 20 years ago. I know what makes a dj great. It was brainwashed into me. I hear none of that on any radio station today. If you are younger, I understand why you would think that CBS-FM today was good because you have no point of comparison but, I and other baby boomers do. Putting the music aside, these current djs are not as skilled or versed as well as say, a Dan Ingram in the 60s. When I judge a radio station's audio processing, I judge it against the density, richness and warmth that tube processing can only give. By comparison, the audio processing on CBS-FM sounds flat and dead. Because of this, many young people hearing this music for the first time are not hearing it with the same punch as the way it was delivered originally. As far as WFMU goes, their existence was very important especially in the days of Upsala. I was in the WFMU studios various times at Upsala in the late 60s. One thing that has always bothered me is this over analysis of all this history. It was much different to actually live it. The over analysis is generally done by younger people because that is their only potential connection to it. I don't over analyze all this stuff. I don't over think all this stuff. It is just a means to an end. The music means a lot to me but, in the end, it is just a business to me. Personality radio means a lot to me that there is talent and it is done right otherwise I wouldn't waste my time writing on here. I don't like cheap imitations and that's what I hear on radio today. Most people don't care about radio today the way the did in the mid 60s. Whatever the deal is, if I think things can be better either from a programming, personality, audio processing or personality point of view, I will continue to write. I can't control how crappy radio sounds today but, I can control what I do and how it sounds. As far as groupies go, the truth is much stranger than anything you could make up.
 
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