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WDSY No. 1!

P

Pratte4Life

Much like an Alan Jackson song, Pittsburgh has gone country!

Or at least in the most recent trend.

I don't think it is that shocking, though a bit surprising since KDKA and WDVE have always been No. 1 and 2.

But why? Have they changed the playlist?

Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la the late 70s and early 90s?

Does WDVE just suck or is it being dragged down by three other rock competetors- or is WDSY just that good?

Thoughts?
 
Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la the
> late 70s and early 90s? I think you just about nailed it there.
 
> Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la the
> > late 70s and early 90s? I think you just about nailed it
> there.

I got so fed up hearing the rock stations I usually listen to play the same few songs over and over and over and over again that I switched over to a country station. Surprisingly, I enjoyed it. Speaking as a musician, what they call "country" today sounds a lot more like what we used to call "rock" back when rock was really good music.
 
> > Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la
> the
> > > late 70s and early 90s? I think you just about nailed
> it
> > there.
>
> I got so fed up hearing the rock stations I usually listen
> to play the same few songs over and over and over and over
> again that I switched over to a country station.
> Surprisingly, I enjoyed it. Speaking as a musician, what
> they call "country" today sounds a lot more like what we
> used to call "rock" back when rock was really good music.
>
Both factors probably in play.

There is little new "rock" music, and hip hop just doesn't resonate with many people over 16.
 
I've always been a country person, so Y108 is always my number one choice. One thing I really like that keeps me listening is the way they seem to also attempt to "include" small communites. Like I live in Apollo, just outside of Pittsburgh, I love their one little catch phrase...From Mars to Apollo, and all the planets in between, we're Pittsburgh number one home for today's best country variety, Y108. It's something like that, but stuff like that is what I enjoy. <P ID="signature">______________
-S</P>
 
> Much like an Alan Jackson song, Pittsburgh has gone country!
>
>
> Or at least in the most recent trend.
>
> I don't think it is that shocking, though a bit surprising
> since KDKA and WDVE have always been No. 1 and 2.
>
> But why? Have they changed the playlist?
>
> Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la the
> late 70s and early 90s?
>
> Does WDVE just suck or is it being dragged down by three
> other rock competetors- or is WDSY just that good?
>
> Thoughts?
>

The problem with all of this is it's a trend. It's 1/3 of the book, and various weighting factors come into play over the course of the three trends. My guess is that they got a disproportionate number of diaries back from the outlying counties where the country audience lives, and that it will be offset in the next trend.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
> Much like an Alan Jackson song, Pittsburgh has gone country!
>
>
> Or at least in the most recent trend.
>
> I don't think it is that shocking, though a bit surprising
> since KDKA and WDVE have always been No. 1 and 2.
>
> But why? Have they changed the playlist?
>
> Is this another cycle where country is cool again- a la the
> late 70s and early 90s?
>
> Does WDVE just suck or is it being dragged down by three
> other rock competetors- or is WDSY just that good?
>
> Thoughts?
>


As I look at all the trends from markets across the nation including Pittsburgh, I can't help but notice Country IS hot right now. It does appear country is entering a boom cycle.

A couple thoughts on why. The current music on other formats may be too extreme for some listeners or simply weak/poor quality. Country could be filling the void. As an example, have you heard the song "Fast Cars and Freedom" by Rascal Flatts? In my opinion, that is one of the best pop songs I've heard in years. Some of the catchiest, most mainstream sounding music of any format is on Country right now. I do think the format is gaining new fans, many who probably never expected to like it, and they add on to the loyal base the format had to begin with.

Some people may think this is silly or a non-factor, but historically Country has boomed when the economy is bad. This was true during the late 70s/early 80s "Urban Cowboy" era...bad inflation, there was a gas crisis etc. We were in a deep recession when country boomed in the early 90s, although many would argue that Garth Brooks was the single factor for that country boom. Today, I'm not sure if the economy is bad, although many would say it is, gas prices are certainly out of control. Also, Country booms whenever there is a conflict with the Middle East. This was true with the Iran hostage crisis, Gulf war one, and the situation were in today.

Finally, as I brought up on the Country board, I wonder if country fans are more likely to stick with traditional radio and less likely to switch to radio alternatives? My hunch is that it is the rock and alternative fans who are most likely to be "giving up" on radio, I certainly have noticed that shares for the Alternative format have gone down in recent years.

As for WDSY, they have a ton of heritage and are well respected as being a good country station. They will benefit anytime there's a country boom like the one we appear to be entering.
 
> As for WDSY, they have a ton of heritage and are well
> respected as being a good country station. They will benefit
> anytime there's a country boom like the one we appear to be
> entering.

How would that "heritage" help them? Sure, country fans have known all along that Daisy was the top country station. But they already listened to Daisy anyway. The people who know and respect Daisy as being a good country station aren't the new listeners that are switching to country for the first time.

To the Johnny Come Latelies (like me) who are just now switching over to country, we're hearing EVERY country station we tune in to for the very first time. I've commented about how crappy the Froggy ad campaign used to be when they just said "Froggy" and listed the frequency. But even when they finally started letting potential listeners know that they were a place for "country variety", they didn't do anything to entice me to sample them.

I found them by accident when WRRK played the same piece of crap song by George Thoroughgood once too often, and I hit the "seek" button on my car radio, and it took me to 98.3. I heard the lyric "Tequila makes your clothes fall off", and so I had to listen some more.

So anyway, I'm serious about this question. How does having some sort of "heritage" reputation help a station get first-time listeners to tune in and sample the station?
 
Those are two great points

First of all, on the idea that when the news is bad, the country goes country-

Could it be that America searches for music with depth in times like these?

Second- as far as heritage helping gain new listeners.

I don't know. But I will say this- Froggy really doesn't do anything I'm aware of that Y108 doesn't. If I'm wrong- let me know- but the thought here is "why listen to the copycat when you can listen to the original?"

I mean, does Froggy inject cutting edge artists from Nashville that might be the next big thing into their play list- the way a southern country station will- or is it pretty much what you'd hear on the countdown shows?

Or, do they interject favorite country songs that we all would recognize?

I have felt that Froggy really isn't the station it could be. I think that they insult their DJs by making them take on the names they do- Farrah Froggett for instance- and the ultimate insult- making a true professional like Jimmy Roach go by "Jumping" Jimmy Roach.

I don't like it.

There is a line in a Hank Williams Jr. song that says "I am into basics and I don't like fads." This basically describes the typical country listener.

But the whole concept of "Froggy" comes off as the world's biggest gimmick.

ONE MORE THOUGHT-

Pittsburgh is located at the geographical point where the northeast (Allegheny), Appalachia (Monongahela) and the midwest (Ohio) all come together.

Now- two of those cultures are made up of traditional country music listeners.

So while Shadyside may not be listening- Beaver and Fayette County will be at all times, and thus the format has a strong base from which to grow upon.
 
Re: Those are two great points

> ONE MORE THOUGHT-
>
> Pittsburgh is located at the geographical point where the
> northeast (Allegheny), Appalachia (Monongahela) and the
> midwest (Ohio) all come together.
>
> Now- two of those cultures are made up of traditional
> country music listeners.
>
> So while Shadyside may not be listening- Beaver and Fayette
> County will be at all times, and thus the format has a
> strong base from which to grow upon.
>


Is it news that Pittsburgh is strong redneck territory? If it is, you don't get out much.
 
Re: Those are two great points

> I don't know. But I will say this- Froggy really doesn't do
> anything I'm aware of that Y108 doesn't. If I'm wrong- let
> me know- but the thought here is "why listen to the copycat
> when you can listen to the original?"

My response would be, "Since both of them are brand new to me, I don't much care which one started it first. I don't much care which one is copying the other, I just want the one I like the best."

> I mean, does Froggy inject cutting edge artists from
> Nashville that might be the next big thing into their play
> list- the way a southern country station will- or is it
> pretty much what you'd hear on the countdown shows?

Beats me. I'm so new to listening to country EVERYTHING I hear I'm pretty much hearing for the first time. It's all cutting edge to me (and to recent converts like me).

> Or, do they interject favorite country songs that we all
> would recognize?

We recent country converts don't have much in the way of "favorite country songs" yet.

> I have felt that Froggy really isn't the station it could
> be. I think that they insult their DJs by making them take
> on the names they do- Farrah Froggett for instance- and the
> ultimate insult- making a true professional like Jimmy Roach
> go by "Jumping" Jimmy Roach.
>
> I don't like it.

Now that's something that I cannot dispute. You're totally correct on that point.

> Pittsburgh is located at the geographical point where the
> northeast (Allegheny), Appalachia (Monongahela) and the
> midwest (Ohio) all come together.
>
> Now- two of those cultures are made up of traditional
> country music listeners.

Again, I don't disagree. But we're talking about Daisy attracting NEW listeners who didn't traditionally listen to country. And, based on what I recall of country music from years ago when I caught country artists on television variety shows, modern country music is not "traditional" country music.

I don't hear much on any country station that sounds like Slim Whitman or Boxcar Willie.
 
And that's why it's a great town!

Because even in a City with Carnegie Mellon and Heinz Hall we're not all pretentious!

'Cause after all, it's just like Charlie Daniels said-

"What this world needs is a few more rednecks!"
 
But RR-

To talk about "traditional" country music and use the names of Boxcar Willie and Slim Whitman would be like using Rick Dees' "Disco Duck" as an example of a "traditional" 70s artist.

Or talking about the "traditional" Tom Hanks vehicles of "Bosom Buddies" and "Bachelor Party."

In other words- "traditional" country music is Waylon Jennings- Loretta Lynn- Johnny Cash if you're of our age.

And come on- I know you'd recognize their songs in a heartbeat.



> > I don't know. But I will say this- Froggy really doesn't
> do
> > anything I'm aware of that Y108 doesn't. If I'm wrong- let
>
> > me know- but the thought here is "why listen to the
> copycat
> > when you can listen to the original?"
>
> My response would be, "Since both of them are brand new to
> me, I don't much care which one started it first. I don't
> much care which one is copying the other, I just want the
> one I like the best."
>
> > I mean, does Froggy inject cutting edge artists from
> > Nashville that might be the next big thing into their play
>
> > list- the way a southern country station will- or is it
> > pretty much what you'd hear on the countdown shows?
>
> Beats me. I'm so new to listening to country EVERYTHING I
> hear I'm pretty much hearing for the first time. It's all
> cutting edge to me (and to recent converts like me).
>
> > Or, do they interject favorite country songs that we all
> > would recognize?
>
> We recent country converts don't have much in the way of
> "favorite country songs" yet.
>
> > I have felt that Froggy really isn't the station it could
> > be. I think that they insult their DJs by making them take
>
> > on the names they do- Farrah Froggett for instance- and
> the
> > ultimate insult- making a true professional like Jimmy
> Roach
> > go by "Jumping" Jimmy Roach.
> >
> > I don't like it.
>
> Now that's something that I cannot dispute. You're totally
> correct on that point.
>
> > Pittsburgh is located at the geographical point where the
> > northeast (Allegheny), Appalachia (Monongahela) and the
> > midwest (Ohio) all come together.
> >
> > Now- two of those cultures are made up of traditional
> > country music listeners.
>
> Again, I don't disagree. But we're talking about Daisy
> attracting NEW listeners who didn't traditionally listen to
> country. And, based on what I recall of country music from
> years ago when I caught country artists on television
> variety shows, modern country music is not "traditional"
> country music.
>
> I don't hear much on any country station that sounds like
> Slim Whitman or Boxcar Willie.
>
 
> Much like an Alan Jackson song, Pittsburgh has gone country!
>
>
> Or at least in the most recent trend.

Its an upturn trend in Country. Its probably part of a 10-15 year trend.

Remember when 100.7, 104.7 and 107.9 were all country at one point in the early 90s? WDSY was country before AND after the "trend".

Rock music has bottomed out. A new trend in rock has to take place for it to become popular again. Some sub-genres of Heavy Metal is taking a good foot hold in Europe. (Melodic metal for example - its similar to hard rock of the 1980s)

DVE could start playing some of that music in light rotation and see if people bite. (I've been listening to it for a while, but if its "new to you", then people might start listening).

Hip-Hop and Rap only appeal to those under 25. Over 25, we tend to like rock or country, depending on what's "fresh and new" at the time.

By the way, was WDSY known as "Daisy 108" back in the late 1970s or early 1980s? Somewhere in my old brain cell I remember that was their slogan.

Dave
 
Re: But RR-

> To talk about "traditional" country music and use the names
> of Boxcar Willie and Slim Whitman would be like using Rick
> Dees' "Disco Duck" as an example of a "traditional" 70s
> artist.

I was exaggerating a little bit to make a point. Much of the distinctive sounds that used to identify country music, like that little "catch" in the vocals or the distinctive sound of a pedal steel guitar or the characteristic twang of a Telecaster instead of a Stratocaster, aren't real obvious in the new country songs.

> Or talking about the "traditional" Tom Hanks vehicles of
> "Bosom Buddies" and "Bachelor Party."
>
> In other words- "traditional" country music is Waylon
> Jennings- Loretta Lynn- Johnny Cash if you're of our age.
>
> And come on- I know you'd recognize their songs in a
> heartbeat.

Yeah, I would. I was familiar with their cross-over hits. But then, I was told by serious country fans that the cross-over hits of country artists on the pop charts weren't "real" country songs.

I read one article about Shania Twain that said her songs are mixed three different ways for three different markets. She'll send a song with violins in the accompaniment to pop radio stations, the exact same song except with steel guitars replacing the violins to country radio stations, and a third version with accordians replacing the violins and pedal steel quitars to Europe. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but it makes sense to me.
 
Personally since the station is doing so well, I think Infinity should change it to 1079 Y-ROCK. We DO need another rock station in Pittsburgh!

*sarcasm<P ID="signature">______________
-S</P>
 
Re: Those are two great points

Froggy 98.3 has to have the WEAKEST singnal. I can pick it up, but I drive out of northern Westmoreland county a smidge eastward, nothing!<P ID="signature">______________
-S</P>
 
So how is the Frog

> Much like an Alan Jackson song, Pittsburgh has gone country!
>
>
> Or at least in the most recent trend.
>
> I don't think it is that shocking, though a bit surprising
> since KDKA and WDVE have always been No. 1 and 2.
So if Y108 is #1 how did the Frogs fare? I would think if despite all their marketing and the 10 gazillion frequencies you can hear them on that they cannot make a dent into this giant and it seems that they cannot, maybe its time for them to try something else? Instead of Froggy 98...maybe B98??? The calls WBZZ are probably still available someplace.

The Froggy thing fares well in small town America...but in the Burgh I think people are mature enough and educated enough to see through the hype to realize that its just not that well programmed of a station when put up against a heritage country outlet.

Long Live Y108....Its killed off K-Bear and many many others in the past!
 
Well, it doesn't look like you'll get your wish

According to radioandrecords, the Frog did their best book over the past year in this recent trend.

Add all four stations together and they get a 5.9 overall rating- good enough for fifth in the market, and higher than any CHR or AC station in the market.

I think you're just going to have to face it- CHR is not a great format. It's been overwrought with hip-hop and like somebody below said- if you're under 25 you just don't get it. And most of the 20somethings I know personally don't care for it.

You alluded to Pittsburgh being "mature." Why then would the audience be receptive to a format geared to such music?

Especially when country does provide a certain depth and maturity that some other styles of music do not.

And the fact of the matter is a younger crowd that isn't into the urban scene might just go for the "Jumping" Jimmy Roach gimmick.

We are in an age where NASCAR is king, "Dukes of Hazzard" is a hit at the box office and we have a President that dipped Skoal until he was 37.

Like it or not- this is what people are into nowadays.



> So if Y108 is #1 how did the Frogs fare? I would think if
> despite all their marketing and the 10 gazillion frequencies
> you can hear them on that they cannot make a dent into this
> giant and it seems that they cannot, maybe its time for them
> to try something else? Instead of Froggy 98...maybe B98???
> The calls WBZZ are probably still available someplace.
>
> The Froggy thing fares well in small town America...but in
> the Burgh I think people are mature enough and educated
> enough to see through the hype to realize that its just not
> that well programmed of a station when put up against a
> heritage country outlet.
>
> Long Live Y108....Its killed off K-Bear and many many others
> in the past!
>
 
Re: Well, it doesn't look like you'll get your wish

> According to radioandrecords, the Frog did their best book
> over the past year in this recent trend.
>
> Add all four stations together and they get a 5.9 overall
> rating- good enough for fifth in the market, and higher than
> any CHR or AC station in the market.
>
> I think you're just going to have to face it- CHR is not a
> great format. It's been overwrought with hip-hop and like
> somebody below said- if you're under 25 you just don't get
> it. And most of the 20somethings I know personally don't
> care for it.
>
> You alluded to Pittsburgh being "mature." Why then would the
> audience be receptive to a format geared to such music?
>
> Especially when country does provide a certain depth and
> maturity that some other styles of music do not.
>
> And the fact of the matter is a younger crowd that isn't
> into the urban scene might just go for the "Jumping" Jimmy
> Roach gimmick.
>
> We are in an age where NASCAR is king, "Dukes of Hazzard" is
> a hit at the box office and we have a President that dipped
> Skoal until he was 37.
>
> Like it or not- this is what people are into nowadays.
>
If you say so....I remember thinking like that nearly killing off CHR in the late 80's to early 90's. And then about 5 years later, CHR came back stronger than ever. CHR fares very well nationally still and will as long as programmers don't try and decide what is hot at the time. If they play the hits the audience will listen. Stations get in trouble when programmers decide this is too urban or that is too hard rock, etc and they pick and choose what they play rather than follow the trends of the business. Urban is HOT now...yes I hate Fiddy Cent...but he sells a lot of records. More than many Country artists do. Don't underrate the format. Its strong if programmed right and marketed well.

I think #5 is not so great when you are looking at the fact that your major competition is #1 with no signs of weakening. It will be hard for the Frog to beat Y108 at its own game. That was my the biggest point I was trying to make. It'd be much easier for a mainstream CHR to topple Kiss for example because they have a preceived weakness.

I am not belittling Country...its a HUGE format and always will be, but its not the be all and end all for formats
 
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