WDSY No. 1!

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> So anyway, I'm serious about this question. How does having
> some sort of "heritage" reputation help a station get
> first-time listeners to tune in and sample the station?

Because the "heritage" makes it known in the community.

Ask ANYONE, even rock fans or WAMO fans, what *THE* country station in Pittsburgh is--9 out of 10 will say Y108.

Why? Because of its heritage, Y108 has been the go-to station for country music in Pittsburgh since the early 80s (and even before, when it was WEEP AM/FM). Y108 has advertised in town for over 20 years. Its morning shows have been hosted by some big names in Pittsburgh radio, from genres OTHER than country--Jimmy Roach, Chris DeCarlo, etc.

Also, the fact that it has been around and sustained through competitors and trend declines makes it almost "invincible". It has always been there, so people know where to find it--something that can't be said for others (especially Froggy with its multiple frequencies, depending on where you are).

So, I think that heritage DOES help attract new listeners. It's the same with Talk (KDKA), rock (DVE), oldies (3WS)--those are the go-to stations for that genre, despite competitors. And one reason, I maintain the main reason, is their heritage and longevity.

Hope this helps.

 

[BarryMcCockiner]

Re: Those are two great points

I have to call you on this point. Dude, you are just straight LYING if you won't acknowledge the selling power of heritage. Let me give you some examples.

When you move to a new town like say, Wash DC, where they have 75 cab companies, you ask your friend what... "Hey which of these is the #1 cab company in town.. who does everybody know and use?" Or do you just jump in the first car that rolls up and offers you a ride?

When you want to buy the first central air conditioner unit you ever bought for your first home, what brand do you buy? Trane! Why? You know its been in that business forever. Or do you buy the cheapest SANGHUI brand you find?

Who does your carpet? Okay, who comes to mind first to potentially do it? Empire! 40 years of that jingle (sorry folks, everyone just thought of it).

When your wife is undergoing open heart surgery and your HMO offers you some referrals, do you take Dr. Singh who learned his trade in Guatemala and just got here, or do you ask for the best guy money can buy who learned under God himself, did his undergrad at Harvard and his med school at Johns Hopkins, and could do open heart surgery in an Iraqi warzone if he had to. The guy who has been doing it for 30 years. Choose a doctor.

Still want to maintain you dont care anything about heritage, you just go for whichever station gets the job done? In fact... I would wager the first time you decided to sample country, since you said it wasn't so long ago, I bet you turned on Y108 first. And I bet you did it because you've "always known there was a country station at that frequency".

I say you were less than truthful in trying to make that point. I'm not sure why the station's heritage seems to bother you, but you should at least admit its power and not try to act like it means nothing, or argue that it should mean nothing. If that were true, no business in the world would use the slogans "Established 18..." or "Delivering Quality since ..." or "Over x years experience". They sure seem to mean something though cuz people keep usin' 'em.


>
> My response would be, "Since both of them are brand new to
> me, I don't much care which one started it first. I don't
> much care which one is copying the other, I just want the
> one I like the best."
>

 

[Radio_Realist]

Re: Those are two great points

> I have to call you on this point. Dude, you are just
> straight LYING if you won't acknowledge the selling power of
> heritage. Let me give you some examples.
>
> When you move to a new town like say, Wash DC, where they
> have 75 cab companies, you ask your friend what... "Hey
> which of these is the #1 cab company in town.. who does
> everybody know and use?" Or do you just jump in the first
> car that rolls up and offers you a ride?

When I need to hail a cab, I hail the first cab I see. Whenever I traveled in New York City, Washington, DC, or any other city where you just stuck up your hand and yelled "Taxi", everyone I know did the same thing.

> When you want to buy the first central air conditioner unit
> you ever bought for your first home, what brand do you buy?
> Trane! Why? You know its been in that business forever. Or
> do you buy the cheapest SANGHUI brand you find?

Since a central air conditioner is a major purchase, and would cost me a lot of money, and would cost even more if it broke down, then I would pay a lot of attention to the brand name. But picking a radio station ain't nearly the same thing.

> Who does your carpet? Okay, who comes to mind first to
> potentially do it? Empire! 40 years of that jingle (sorry
> folks, everyone just thought of it).

Beats me! All I know is that Mr. Roth is Mr. Rugs, 362-2800.

> When your wife is undergoing open heart surgery and your HMO
> offers you some referrals, do you take Dr. Singh who learned
> his trade in Guatemala and just got here, or do you ask for
> the best guy money can buy who learned under God himself,
> did his undergrad at Harvard and his med school at Johns
> Hopkins, and could do open heart surgery in an Iraqi warzone
> if he had to. The guy who has been doing it for 30 years.
> Choose a doctor.

On life and death matters, I exercise a little bit more care in making a selection than when I pick a freakin' radio station!!!!!! Now who's being absurd?

> Still want to maintain you dont care anything about
> heritage, you just go for whichever station gets the job
> done? In fact... I would wager the first time you decided to
> sample country, since you said it wasn't so long ago, I bet
> you turned on Y108 first. And I bet you did it because
> you've "always known there was a country station at that
> frequency".

No, I was listening to WRRK and hit the radio's "seek" button, and stopped at the first station that it came to that had country music.

> I say you were less than truthful in trying to make that
> point. I'm not sure why the station's heritage seems to
> bother you, but you should at least admit its power and not
> try to act like it means nothing, or argue that it should
> mean nothing. If that were true, no business in the world
> would use the slogans "Established 18..." or "Delivering
> Quality since ..." or "Over x years experience". They sure
> seem to mean something though cuz people keep usin' 'em.

I don't act like it means nothing, I act like it means very little. When someone selects someone to do business with, and money and/or someone's health is at stake, then things like the longevity of the business are important considerations. But we're talking about picking a radio station. It's free. If you pick the wrong one, you don't lose any money, and no one dies.

Now that I've started listening to country music in my car, I set one station button to 98.3 and the other to 104.7. When I get in my car, I listen to whatever station was playing when I got out the last time. If they're in a commercial set, I hit the button for the other one. As I drive along, I leave the radio alone, even for commercial breaks, unless they play something really lame or boring, at which point I hit the button.

That's also what I used to do with WRRK and 'DVE. At that time, WRRK was on most of the time. Now, when I listen to country, I split my time about 50/50 between the station on button 1 and the station on button 2.

>
> >
> > My response would be, "Since both of them are brand new to
>
> > me, I don't much care which one started it first. I don't
> > much care which one is copying the other, I just want the
> > one I like the best."
> >
>

 

[ParkerVictim]

I'll keep this brief.

Country is the new A/C.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> I'll keep this brief.
>
> Country is the new A/C.
>

I have to disagree, and here's why.

AC (in all its permeations) has been a consistent, yet middle-of-the-pack runner. AC stations never get the #1 slot overall, or in Pittsburgh the demo, but bill huge amounts--because they're essentially female formats. Every so often you'll see an AC win the F 25-54, but normally they're all clumped in 2-4th place.

Country, as we've mentioned here before, is not as consistent. It can win #1 overall, and win the demos (M, F, All 25-54)--and that trend lasts for a few years. Then country goes down to the middle of the pack, battling with the ACs for about 10 years, making money and billing well, and then a country surge happens again, and the Y108s shoot to the top--yet again.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Maybe the recording industry deserves some credit (and blame!)

> Country, as we've mentioned here before, is not as
> consistent. It can win #1 overall, and win the demos (M, F,
> All 25-54)--and that trend lasts for a few years. Then
> country goes down to the middle of the pack, battling with
> the ACs for about 10 years, making money and billing well,
> and then a country surge happens again, and the Y108s shoot
> to the top--yet again.

Could it be that the people in the country branch of the recording industry just do a better job some times than their counterparts in the rock, pop, and urban branches? Could it be that the artists who work in the country genre are just better musicians, and turn out a better product than the current crop of "artists" toiling away in the rock, pop, and urban genres? Could it be that Shania Twain or Faith Hill are simply more talented than the pop tarts like Christina Aguilera? Or that Toby Keith just writes better songs than Eminem?

Will radio industry people ever acknowledge that it's the recording industry people, particularly the artists, who really determine what kind of music the public will want to listen to, not the DJ's who chatter between the songs?

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Realist: Get off it and knock the chip off your shoulder

> Could it be that the people in the country branch of the
> recording industry just do a better job some times than
> their counterparts in the rock, pop, and urban branches?
> Could it be that the artists who work in the country genre
> are just better musicians, and turn out a better product
> than the current crop of "artists" toiling away in the rock,
> pop, and urban genres? Could it be that Shania Twain or
> Faith Hill are simply more talented than the pop tarts like
> Christina Aguilera? Or that Toby Keith just writes better
> songs than Eminem?
>
> Will radio industry people ever acknowledge that it's the
> recording industry people, particularly the artists, who
> really determine what kind of music the public will want to
> listen to, not the DJ's who chatter between the songs?
>

Alright. Normally I support your posts, since they tend to bring up some good, albeit at times impolitic, points.

But this one is asinine. I know you're a musician--I am too (guitar, vocals, and mouth organ). But stop taking any and everything so personally.

No one ever said that the country popularity right now WASN'T attributable to good musicians--or ones better now than the crop of rock or R&B musicians. In fact, the good musical craftsmanship coming out of Nashville (or wherever the hell country music is made now) is one important reason why it's so popular now.

But, and open your ears now, GOOD MUSIC ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE SUCCESS IN RADIO. If that was the case, Frank Sinatra would have a station all to himself. He doesn't because radio listeners have other tastes than all FS.

Furthermore, no one ever claimed that the "DJ's [sic] who chatter between songs" determine what kind of music people listen to. However, DJs DO in part determine which radio stations people listen to--and which stations people listen to has a direct effect on which genre of music is popular with which segment of the population. As much as you'd like to change it, people do not always enjoy the best "musical" music; there are many diverse and varied factors that determine what music is popular.

You stepped way over the line with your last post. I suggest taking a rest for a while--and calm down.

 

[cruz]

Re: And that's why it's a great town!

> Because even in a City with Carnegie Mellon and Heinz Hall
> we're not all pretentious!
>
> 'Cause after all, it's just like Charlie Daniels said-
>
> "What this world needs is a few more rednecks!"
>


AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!

 

[Radio_Realist]

Re: Realist: Get off it and knock the chip off your shoulder

> > Will radio industry people ever acknowledge that it's the
> > recording industry people, particularly the artists, who
> > really determine what kind of music the public will want
> to
> > listen to, not the DJ's who chatter between the songs?
> >
>
> No one ever said that the country popularity right now
> WASN'T attributable to good musicians--or ones better now
> than the crop of rock or R&B musicians. In fact, the good
> musical craftsmanship coming out of Nashville (or wherever
> the hell country music is made now) is one important reason
> why it's so popular now.
>
> But, and open your ears now, GOOD MUSIC ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH
> TO CAUSE SUCCESS IN RADIO. If that was the case, Frank
> Sinatra would have a station all to himself. He doesn't
> because radio listeners have other tastes than all FS.

I went through a load of old threads and posts looking for one thing, and I never found it. I never found a single solitary post made by anyone who worked in radio who ever acknowledged ANY contribution to the success of their station or even of a particular musical format that came from the artists who actually made the music. I've seen plenty of people claim that CHR is going down the tubes because the people who record top-40 style music aren't as good as they used to be, but no one who credited great musical artists with leading to the earlier success of CHR.

I've seen radio people claim it was the DJ's, or the imaging, or the jingle packages, or any other secondary aspect of musical programming that lead to their success. I couldn't find a single post where so much as a sentence was posted by anyone who worked in radio giving the tiniest morsel of credit for a station's success to the artists who create the music.

NOT ONE FREAKIN' SENTENCE!

Open your eyes. To read what the collected radio professional in here write, the only reason Sinatra was a success was that radio professionals were smart enough to package his music with the right imaging and jingle packages!

 

[ParkerVictim]

Re: Realist: Get off it and knock the chip off your shoulder

Maybe I should clarify...From a programming/sound standpoint, Country today is what AC was in the 70s and 80s. Or maybe I should say country took over when what _was_ AC died.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Realist: Get off it and knock the chip off your shoulder

> Maybe I should clarify...From a programming/sound
> standpoint, Country today is what AC was in the 70s and 80s.
> Or maybe I should say country took over when what _was_ AC
> died.
>

OK, I understand now. And I agree--country *sounds* very rock-pop AC-ish now.

 

[MaxShannon]

Re: Maybe the recording industry deserves some credit (and blame!)

> Could it be that the people in the country branch of the
> recording industry just do a better job some times than
> their counterparts in the rock, pop, and urban branches?

If You call that garbage country, You must think Led Zeppelin is Disco.
Just about every Country song I hear sounds like a guy talking about losing his dog, pickup truck and trailer trash wife with Poison, Motley Crue or Metallica playing the track. Country has gotten so far away from it's roots it's pathetic.

> Could it be that the artists who work in the country genre
> are just better musicians, and turn out a better product
> than the current crop of "artists" toiling away in the rock,
> pop, and urban genres?

Could it be some Bullsh*t artist knows how how to pull the wool over someone's eyes better than the last guy


Could it be that Shania Twain or
> Faith Hill are simply more talented than the pop tarts like
> Christina Aguilera? Or that Toby Keith just writes better
> songs than Eminem?
>

Shania and Faith are talented IMHO. Christina is repulsive.
Toby 2 possibly three songs max that will stick around? Eminem,Who Cares!


> Will radio industry people ever acknowledge that it's the
> recording industry people, particularly the artists, who
> really determine what kind of music the public will want to
> listen to,

Not as long as there are greedy ass SOB's like CCU who are in control and the majors with their heads so far up CC's ass that you can smell what Lowry Mays had for dinner. The only way the Recording Industry gets recognized is maybe a Grammy or a TEC Award from Mix Magazine

not the DJ's who chatter between the songs?

Radio has to get back to being live and local, Not voice tracked. not automated, Live & Local. Personally, I do not listen to CC Stations regardless where I am. I've been a victim of Corporate Greed and I've seen first hand the lives the Mays family has destroyed. Look at Lowry's creed and read between the lines.

Paragraph 1. It's all $$$$
Paragraph 2. It's all $$$$
Paragraph 3. It's all $$$$
Paragraph 4. Bullshit Lowry!!! If that was the case. Why did you destroy so may lives!!!!!
Paragraph 5. More Bullshit Lowry!!!!
Core Values - You have none!!!
Successes and ultimate successes - It's all $$$$$ regardless.

No I'm not an Ex-CC employee If you've heard of Steven Wolf and Frank Lorenzo You know where I came from!

Happy Labor Day All!



>

 

[Ed_Salamon]

Re: Realist: Get off it and knock the chip off your shoulder

> I've seen radio people claim it was the DJ's, or the
> imaging, or the jingle packages, or any other secondary
> aspect of musical programming that lead to their success. I
> couldn't find a single post where so much as a sentence was
> posted by anyone who worked in radio giving the tiniest
> morsel of credit for a station's success to the artists who
> create the music.

Actually, Country radio DOES recognize artists and songwriters with an award presented by The Country Radio Broadcasters. You can see details of recent presentations at www.crb.org.
Ed Salamon
(PD WEEP AM/FM 1973-5)