WECK shuffles their lineup

[TheBigA]

How many employers, however, would allow a jock to do something unique? Would Howard Stern allow to do what he does if he were just breaking into the business today? Nope.

For Howard, it was a long process. He didn't get hired to do what everyone now sees. These days, the process for talent is different.

It's up to the prospective talent to demonstrate what they do is unique, and that it will make money. Otherwise, you're right.

 

[davideduardo]

How many employers, however, would allow a jock to do something unique? Would Howard Stern allow to do what he does if he were just breaking into the business today? Nope.

It took Stern many years to develop his "format" and style. He was let go from a number of stations as he was not that good of a "rock jock". But his personality evolved, with WWDC-FM in Washington being the key step. At that station, he had considerable and extensive arguments with Don Davis, the PD... but that was where he teamed with Robin Quivers and the formula was a winning one.

We are talking about 1981... over 40 years ago. Despite his discord with the PD, he moved on to NYC and W....ennnnnnn BC.

 

[SirRoxalot]

We have way too many people getting their information from their cell phones when they're driving, or when they're supposed to be at work, school, or other activities that demand their primary attention. Cell phones aren't the answer to everything. They also tend to remove people from what they're experiencing right now. They certainly aren't a shared experience. They lead to isolation, not community.

There are local shows every day that make a difference in the community and have built a strong listener base. The most effective shows are live and local most of the time. Comparing them to a weekly show like "American Top 40" or a national gabfest for a couple of hours a day is inaccurate.

We've seen the big boys, namely iHeart, now Audacy, Townsquare, and to an extent Cumulus replace local talent with nation syndication and VT. We've also seen the results. Reduced TSL, particularly among younger listeners, and a desperate search for "non-traditional" revenue. Radio is still earns the biggest chunk of money and provides most of the content but gets short shrift when it comes to investment and promotion.

I understand this ain't 1980. OTA signals are likely to fade away in the next 10 years - maybe less. It's not the delivery system. It's the content. If listeners don't find compelling content from these media companies, there will be some big bankruptcies. Radio's not the only industry facing massive disruption, but if it wants to avoid going the way of newspapers, it needs to rely on its strengths and focus on its audience while it still has the resources to make itself relevant.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

I understand this ain't 1980. OTA signals are likely to fade away in the next 10 years - maybe less.

With the average age of most American's cars approaching 12 years old, and with FM still today having an anchor seat on the dashboard, I think it's a safe bet radio will be around for at least 10 years, and more probably 20 years. Not bad for a medium invented 100 years ago.

 

[ScottBurns]

For Howard, it was a long process. He didn't get hired to do what everyone now sees. These days, the process for talent is different.

It's up to the prospective talent to demonstrate what they do is unique, and that it will make money. Otherwise, you're right.

There seems to be only a few topics/segments that PDs allow today...
1. First/second date updates
2. Hollywood gossip
3. Prizes/call-ins for answering trivia

Other than that, I can't imagine how any morning jocks are allowed to innovate.

 

[ScottBurns]

It took Stern many years to develop his "format" and style. He was let go from a number of stations as he was not that good of a "rock jock". But his personality evolved, with WWDC-FM in Washington being the key step. At that station, he had considerable and extensive arguments with Don Davis, the PD... but that was where he teamed with Robin Quivers and the formula was a winning one.

We are talking about 1981... over 40 years ago. Despite his discord with the PD, he moved on to NYC and W....ennnnnnn BC.

Stern himself has always portrayed his firings - from WWDC-FM and WNBC - as due to his raunchiness and not accepting limits on his content. Either way, Stern's formula has evolved and it continues to work. Sirius wouldn't be paying him if it did not work.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Stern himself has always portrayed his firings - from WWDC-FM and WNBC - as due to his raunchiness and not accepting limits on his content. Either way, Stern's formula has evolved and it continues to work. Sirius wouldn't be paying him if it did not work.

True. Stern has evolved, too. In his latest interviews he insists, "that (the former) Howard Stern doesn't exist anymore." He now does more interviews and is more introspective. Sometimes apologetic.

The softer, kinder Stern. How sweet.

The brash, arrogant and often vindictive Stern that mocked Scott Muni, Imus, Scott Shannon, Greaseman and John de Bella, the guy who caused personal pain and laughed at competitors' anguish and physical ailments ... the one that made jokes about plane crash victims in DC ... the guy who sicced his nitwit followers on competing morning shows ... that Howard Stern has been banished and reconciled by psychotherapy.

Stern may have evolved, but his path is littered with truths that cannot be erased or forgotten. He, like Limbaugh, also generated a slew of wannabes. Now that Stern sees his shelf/life end date approaching, he's a changed man. A real mensch.

But yeah... he's wealthy, paid well and made his mark. A true Hall Of Famer.

 

[davideduardo]

With the average age of most American's cars approaching 12 years old, and with FM still today having an anchor seat on the dashboard, I think it's a safe bet radio will be around for at least 10 years, and more probably 20 years. Not bad for a medium invented 100 years ago.

"Radio" is not the technology, it is the content. As long as radio stations can deliver their content successfully through new distribution channels, it will last much more than 10 to 20 years.

The determining factor is whether ad supported one-to-many content can continue to have a segment of overall listening. Whether the delivery system is over the air or streams does not matter.

 

[TheBigA]

Other than that, I can't imagine how any morning jocks are allowed to innovate.

If PDs had rules about what morning jocks could talk about, Lederman would still be working at WGRF.

In his lawsuit against CBS, Don Imus told the judge he was hired to be outrageous. That was what the company wanted from him. He had no limits on what he could do or talk about.

Just before his dismissal, Imus signed a five-year, $40 million contract with CBS. Garbus, a famed First Amendment lawyer, said Imus would sue for the contract's unpaid portion. He cited a contract clause in which CBS acknowledged that Imus' services were "unique, extraordinary, irreverent, intellectual, topical, controversial." The clause said Imus' programming was "desired by company and ... consistent with company rules and policy," according to Garbus.

 

[ScottBurns]

True. Stern has evolved, too. In his latest interviews he insists, "that (the former) Howard Stern doesn't exist anymore." He now does more interviews and is more introspective. Sometimes apologetic.

The softer, kinder Stern. How sweet.

The brash, arrogant and often vindictive Stern that mocked Scott Muni, Imus, Scott Shannon, Greaseman and John de Bella, the guy who caused personal pain and laughed at competitors' anguish and physical ailments ... the one that made jokes about plane crash victims in DC ... the guy who sicced his nitwit followers on competing morning shows ... that Howard Stern has been banished and reconciled by psychotherapy.

Stern may have evolved, but his path is littered with truths that cannot be erased or forgotten. He, like Limbaugh, also generated a slew of wannabes. Now that Stern sees his shelf/life end date approaching, he's a changed man. A real mensch.

But yeah... he's wealthy, paid well and made his mark. A true Hall Of Famer.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Howard Stern. With that said, he still does some very creative radio that no PDs would allow today.

A few months back, someone on YouTube posted audio from Howard Stern's show in Detroit the day that John Lennon was killed. Yes, times were different. But that was Howard at his finest. Would any PD allow that today?

 

[ScottBurns]

If PDs had rules about what morning jocks could talk about, Lederman would still be working at WGRF.

In his lawsuit against CBS, Don Imus told the judge he was hired to be outrageous. That was what the company wanted from him. He had no limits on what he could do or talk about.

But PDs do have rules and always have. To continue the Howard Stern example, look at why he was fired at DC-101 and WNBC. He wouldn't follow the rules.

 

[TheBigA]

But PDs do have rules and always have. To continue the Howard Stern example, look at why he was fired at DC-101 and WNBC. He wouldn't follow the rules.

Here's what the Washington Post says about Stern's firing from DC101:

The morning after an Air Florida jet crashed into the Potomac River in 1982, killing 78 people, radio shock jock Howard Stern – then with DC-101 – called the airline and inquired about the price of a one-way ticket from National Airport to the 14th Street Bridge.
Stern was fired a year later, but after a salary dispute.

Stern was replaced by The Greaseman, who also had a lot of freedom to say or do whatever he wanted:

In January 1986, Tracht created an uproar by telling an on-air joke regarding the new federal holiday, Martin Luther King Day. Tracht said, "Why don't we shoot four more and get the whole week off?" He was suspended from the station for five days, publicly apologized, and donated money to create a scholarship at Howard University in honor of Dr. King.

They don't get fired for breaking PD rules. They get fired because of the public outcry about what they said.

Is this the kind of "creativity" you want to hear more of on the radio? Give us a list of things you feel would be "creative" that you'd like to hear on the radio.

 

[ScottBurns]

Here's what the Washington Post says about Stern's firing from DC101:



Stern was replaced by The Greaseman, who also had a lot of freedom to say or do whatever he wanted:



They don't get fired for breaking PD rules. They get fired because of the public outcry about what they said.

Is this the kind of "creativity" you want to hear more of on the radio? Give us a list of things you feel would be "creative" that you'd like to hear on the radio.

Well, for the record, Stern has disputed that version of events. He's even noted that if there was such outcry about the Air Florida incident, then why did they wait an entire year to fire him?

I have listened to the Greaseman, and he's never been as outrageous or "shock jock"-like as Howard Stern.

I want more creativity than what I listed in a reply above, which I will quote here.

"There seem to be only a few topics/segments that PDs allow today...
1. First/second date updates
2. Hollywood gossip
3. Prizes/call-ins for answering trivia"

Examples of creativity that I would like to see:
1. Actual interviews - not chopped up, 5-second, PPM-friendly sound bites
2. Games for prizes with multiple contestants - like Howard still does
3. Controversial takes on issues, or just opinions in the first place
4. Bits/songs - some local radio shows still do this, but not as many as in the past
5. Rating movies/music

 

[TheBigA]

He's even noted that if there was such outcry about the Air Florida incident, then why did they wait an entire year to fire him?

Because you don't fire someone because of one incident. The same applied to The Greaseman, who was not fired for suggesting people shoot blacks. My point is there are no rules that Howard broke. At some point station management has to deal with citizen groups who will challenge the station's license. That's probably the only rule a station has, that you can't bring the stations license into question because of something you said that offends someone in the community that you're licensed to serve. How does a DJ's "creativity" serve the public interest? Explain that to the FCC.

Examples of creativity that I would like to see:
1. Actual interviews - not chopped up, 5-second, PPM-friendly sound bites
2. Games for prizes with multiple contestants - like Howard still does
3. Controversial takes on issues, or just opinions in the first place

Can we begin by saying there is a difference between music radio and talk radio? So your point 3 is addressed every day and on every station in the talk radio format. There are no "PD rules" about what a DJ can talk about. That includes attacking management for imposing vaccination mandates, which Don Bongino did last year. What you want is for music stations to become talk stations, and for commercial stations to become more like non-commercial stations. None of that has anything to do with PD rules. Just change the station to WBFO and you'll hear lots of unedited interviews.

My question to you is: Does the public have a right to complain and demand the firing of a DJ who says offensive things? Was it OK or creative for Lederman to compare someone's skin color to the type of toast they like? What rule by the PD did the DJ break? Because we should point out that the PD was also fired. How did any of this serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity?

 

[Rusty Bridges]

My question to you is: Does the public have a right to complain and demand the firing of a DJ who says offensive things? Was it OK or creative for Lederman to compare someone's skin color to the type of toast they like? What rule by the PD did the DJ break? Because we should point out that the PD was also fired. How did any of this serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity?

Serious: Please clarify "this" ... the toast comment, PDs firing or the public outcry?

Thank you.

 

[TheBigA]

Serious: Please clarify "this" ... the toast comment, PDs firing or the public outcry?

How did the bit as done by Lederman on a classic rock station serve the public interest?

Scott believes DJs are being hindered from their creativity by PD rules. How about FCC rules? Shouldn't the FCC have a role?

 

[ScottBurns]

Because you don't fire someone because of one incident. The same applied to The Greaseman, who was not fired for suggesting people shoot blacks. My point is there are no rules that Howard broke. At some point station management has to deal with citizen groups who will challenge the station's license. That's probably the only rule a station has, that you can't bring the stations license into question because of something you said that offends someone in the community that you're licensed to serve. How does a DJ's "creativity" serve the public interest? Explain that to the FCC.



Can we begin by saying there is a difference between music radio and talk radio? So your point 3 is addressed every day and on every station in the talk radio format. There are no "PD rules" about what a DJ can talk about. That includes attacking management for imposing vaccination mandates, which Don Bongino did last year. What you want is for music stations to become talk stations, and for commercial stations to become more like non-commercial stations. None of that has anything to do with PD rules. Just change the station to WBFO and you'll hear lots of unedited interviews.

There have been plenty of people fired over a single incident or first-time offense. The list is long.

Secondly, how do you know that "there are no rules that Howard broke?" Are you privy to the operations inside of DC-101 while Howard worked there? I know plenty of jocks, including morning hosts, who claim that their PDs have rules about what is allowed to be discussed on-air.

Thirdly, there are plenty of morning jocks who offer opinions on various issues. Rick Stacy on WOCL/Orlando is a good example. Talk radio offers only monolithic right wing opinions. I don't want music stations to become talk stations. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Fourthly, I am offering a subjective opinion. You and I disagree; you've disagreed with nearly everything I have ever posted on this site. But you're offering the corporate perspective. I am offering the "what I, the listener, want to hear" perspective.

Finally, as I have argued in other posts, all that radio is doing is doubling down on a failing strategy. Revenue is down. Listenership, especially in younger demos, is down. So what does ownership do? Double down on what is not working. You will explain all of that; as a listener, to paraphrase Howard Stern, doubling down isn't compelling radio.

 

[TheBigA]

There have been plenty of people fired over a single incident or first-time offense. The list is long.

But we're talking about DC101. Don't change the subject.

Secondly, how do you know that "there are no rules that Howard broke?"

I know the woman who was his PD at the time. She is also the person who hired Robin Quivers as his co-host. Howard did crazy stunts every day. That's why he was popular. The station made lots of money because he was popular. The problem happened when community groups started demanding that he get fired. At the same time (and all of this is detailed in his book) he was being pursued by NBC to get him out of DC because his show was hurting the ratings of their station in that market. That's how he got hired at WNBC.

Finally, as I have argued in other posts, all that radio is doing is doubling down on a failing strategy.

You throw around vast generalizations with absolutely no specifics. In the meantime, you completely ignore actual specifics of a DJ in Buffalo who compared the skin color of women to toast. You haven't responded to any of my questions, and you haven't shown how DJ creativity serves the public interest as laid out in the FCC rules. Radio stations are licensed by the government. All other forms of audio are not. Those are the rules radio stations operate under. Please read those rules sometime.

 

[ScottBurns]

But we're talking about DC101. Don't change the subject.



I know the woman who was his PD at the time. She is also the person who hired Robin Quivers as his co-host. Howard did crazy stunts every day. That's why he was popular. The station made lots of money because he was popular. The problem happened when community groups started demanding that he get fired. At the same time (and all of this is detailed in his book) he was being pursued by NBC to get him out of DC because his show was hurting the ratings of their station in that market. That's how he got hired at WNBC.



You throw around vast generalizations with absolutely no specifics. In the meantime, you completely ignore actual specifics of a DJ in Buffalo who compared the skin color of women to toast. You haven't responded to any of my questions, and you haven't shown how DJ creativity serves the public interest as laid out in the FCC rules. Radio stations are licensed by the government. All other forms of audio are not. Those are the rules radio stations operate under. Please read those rules sometime.

First, as I have asked before, can we conduct discussion in a friendly manner instead of your constant snarkiness?

Secondly, I am not changing the subject and, respectfully, don't tell me what to do. Why did you not say that you had inside knowledge of DC-101 when Howard worked there? That changes the argument and I will concede the point to you.

Thirdly, I do not live in Buffalo and do not actively keep up with radio there. I have been there once in my life. I am not familiar with the case to which you refer. As such, I did not comment on it.

Fourthly, DJ creativity serves the public interest by making radio a more compelling listen. I find FM radio today to be an extreme bore. There is virtually nothing that I find interesting about it other than my DXing hobby. With revenue and listenership down, much of the public obviously agrees.

Fifth, I am entitled to my opinions - as are you. We just have different perspectives. How about respecting that?

 

[Rusty Bridges]

The 97 Rock "toast incident" goes a lot deeper than what's been discussed in this thread. Lederman's bit certainly was not in the community interest, as witnessed by the overall community response. The tell, however, was that most 97 Rock listeners were not offended. They couldn't understand the outrage and why the toast bit was such a big deal. But the "community" reaction dictated Cumulus' response, which was terminating the morning show and the program director.