Well Here it is!

[RadeoEngineer]

Jerry Del Colliano made a comment about the power increase on his blog this morning:

I think a Soviet-era Lada would be closer to the mark!

Oh not true! My wife has driven Lada's all over eastern Europe and never had a failure other than a few flats and the brakes going out in the mountains. Now if you want to talk Yugo's.......

 

[Savage]

Interesting, because both Ladas and Yugos are essentially re-engineered Fiat 128s and 124s. Fiat made a lot of dough in the 1970s and 1980s selling the Eastern Bloc countries turnkey auto assembly plants.

Ladas of the 80s were virtually badge-engineered Fiat 124s. Radeo's right - they weren't bad cars. Certainly better than the stuff the East Germans and Russkies had come up with for their domestic markets, like those 2-stroke Wartburgs and Trabants with their Formica bodies.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Dammit Savage you know too much! I had a Fiat 850 Spider that turned 7250 RPMs to make 70 mph, and went through three engines in three years and 36k miles. JUNK! JUNK I tell you.

 

[LynnW]

Ladas were de-engineered. My one experience with a Lada was in Morocco. Several of us drove it and whoever was driving needed to wear laeather glove on the right hand. When shifting to third gear, the driver's hand would make hard contact with the sharp edge on the bottom of the steel dashboard.

 

[8638]

Hold on to your HD receivers, they'll take their rightful places alongside 8 track players and AM stereo receivers soon

Funny you said that! My Sony HD tuner sits atop my 70's vintage Realistic 8-track player! I disconnected and boxed up my AM stereo tuner some time ago, though.

 

[RadioDoogie]

Just like with TV aren't we trying to move away from the world of analog in radio? Isn't digital the way we should be moving with radio and why is everyone hanging on to analog as long as we have? Why isn't there more of a push to put HD on all future manufactured radios?

Well, the adoption of 8-VSB digital television has not been great for all parties concerned. When it works, and it does, 95% of the time at my location, it's great. But when it doesn't, you get NOTHING. IBOC has the burden of being a Hybrid Digital system, riding alongside the existing analog signal. If you are stationary, and relatively close to the stick, it's great. If, however, you are on the move (read: car) and out in the fringe area of the signal (read: most suburbs/exurbs), being a digital delivery system, when the signal drops below a certain threshold, you hear NOTHING on an HD-2 or 3, and a blend back into analog on the HD-1. Human beings do not see or hear digitally, but rather, analog. We have the ability to listen through analog interference (or to tune to a stronger signal!). Nothing at all wrong with quality analog FM radio. The reason so many want to hold on to analog is because is works, consistently, a claim IBOC cannot yet make.

The concept of IBOC is interesting; its execution, less so. And I will state that I enjoy several HD-2's and 3's receivable at my location. But they suffer from dropout at times, and that is annoying as hell.

So will digital TV and hd radio ever develop technologically into a world someday where it works better in a state of motion such as in a car? Cell phones work on an RF system and work pretty well in a mobile situation. I know that when I was younger, the analog tv picture would shake in the car but was viewable. Now with digital tv, I can only get a picture when my car sits still. Any thoughts?

 

[Carmine5]

Just like with TV aren't we trying to move away from the world of analog in radio? Isn't digital the way we should be moving with radio and why is everyone hanging on to analog as long as we have? Why isn't there more of a push to put HD on all future manufactured radios?

Well, the adoption of 8-VSB digital television has not been great for all parties concerned. When it works, and it does, 95% of the time at my location, it's great. But when it doesn't, you get NOTHING. IBOC has the burden of being a Hybrid Digital system, riding alongside the existing analog signal. If you are stationary, and relatively close to the stick, it's great. If, however, you are on the move (read: car) and out in the fringe area of the signal (read: most suburbs/exurbs), being a digital delivery system, when the signal drops below a certain threshold, you hear NOTHING on an HD-2 or 3, and a blend back into analog on the HD-1. Human beings do not see or hear digitally, but rather, analog. We have the ability to listen through analog interference (or to tune to a stronger signal!). Nothing at all wrong with quality analog FM radio. The reason so many want to hold on to analog is because is works, consistently, a claim IBOC cannot yet make.

The concept of IBOC is interesting; its execution, less so. And I will state that I enjoy several HD-2's and 3's receivable at my location. But they suffer from dropout at times, and that is annoying as hell.

So will digital TV and hd radio ever develop technologically into a world someday where it works better in a state of motion such as in a car? Cell phones work on an RF system and work pretty well in a mobile situation. I know that when I was younger, the analog tv picture would shake in the car but was viewable. Now with digital tv, I can only get a picture when my car sits still. Any thoughts?

Mobile DTV, which debuted early last year, works very well in a moving car, even at high speeds and was designed for that purpose. The image size is approximately that of an iPhone or Blackberry. Word has it that engineers are working on a larger screen size (presumably for devices like the iPad) and the possibility of multiple mobile streams. TV stations would have the option of giving up some of their extra channels for additional mobile DTV streams. So far, only the Samsung and LG phones offer Mobile DTV.

HD Radio in a moving car? Well, that was part of the reason for the power increase; better coverage and fewer drop outs. We'll see if it does the trick.

c5

 

[KB1OKL]

Hold on to your HD receivers, they'll take their rightful places alongside 8 track players and AM stereo receivers soon

Funny you said that! My Sony HD tuner sits atop my 70's vintage Realistic 8-track player! I disconnected and boxed up my AM stereo tuner some time ago, though.

My Sony HD sits and blinks at me since the power went out months ago from atop my real receiver; a Marantz 2385.

 

[ddsparxx]

Speaking of Marantz receivers I recently bought an old Marantz 4240 receiver at a flea market and I hope to fix it up soon. Needs a new dial light. Right now I have my Sony HD tuner on top of a new Yamaha 2-channel receiver.

 

[briankay]

So stations will be allowed to turn up the power 30 days after publication of the FCC Power Increase Order in the Federal Register. So does anyone know if Clear Channel or CBS in the larger markets have already upgraded their equipment to allow an immediate increase in power?
It will be an interesting Spring seeing who will turn up the juice and who won't. Of more interest to me will be is if I at last get solid HD radio coverage where I live (42 miles from the Chicago Class B TXs) Right now I get HD coverage 30 to 60% of the time in my locale depending on weather, the station, propagation conditions, etc. So being in a rural (low noise) area, I am expecting a 6 dB increase will offer a dramatic improvement in my local area. I know some pessimists on this issue will say, I'll still have reception issues after the increase, but if I was a betting man, I would bet I will see a significant improvement in reception while mobile, in particular because of the time diversity of the upper and lower sidebands (i.e. the likelihood of both sidebands having very low signal for more than 5 seconds while mobile in flat terrain should be dramatically reduced)

 

[Tom Wells]

So stations will be allowed to turn up the power 30 days after publication of the FCC Power Increase Order in the Federal Register. So does anyone know if Clear Channel or CBS in the larger markets have already upgraded their equipment to allow an immediate increase in power?
It will be an interesting Spring seeing who will turn up the juice and who won't. Of more interest to me will be is if I at last get solid HD radio coverage where I live (42 miles from the Chicago Class B TXs) Right now I get HD coverage 30 to 60% of the time in my locale depending on weather, the station, propagation conditions, etc. So being in a rural (low noise) area, I am expecting a 6 dB increase will offer a dramatic improvement in my local area. I know some pessimists on this issue will say, I'll still have reception issues after the increase, but if I was a betting man, I would bet I will see a significant improvement in reception while mobile, in particular because of the time diversity of the upper and lower sidebands (i.e. the likelihood of both sidebands having very low signal for more than 5 seconds while mobile in flat terrain should be dramatically reduced)

You'll get 45-50% to 70-75% with the higher levels, all things considered. And 42 miles is about where analog starts chopping up unless you're on Lake Michigan....I wish you solid reception but I fear it is not to be. I live in Chicago. 7 miles from downtown, and got such troubles with HD... Oy!
I can't get WLUP in stereo a lot of the time anymore.

 

[8638]

Hold on to your HD receivers, they'll take their rightful places alongside 8 track players and AM stereo receivers soon

Funny you said that! My Sony HD tuner sits atop my 70's vintage Realistic 8-track player! I disconnected and boxed up my AM stereo tuner some time ago, though.

My Sony HD sits and blinks at me since the power went out months ago from atop my real receiver; a Marantz 2385.

Marantz certainly built quality equipment back in the day. I remember working on one for my ex's friend. Burned it in for about a month before the friend picked it up. Sweet receiver without a doubt. But, the Sony is the most selective tuner I've ever owned. I can pull a relatively wipmy B1 (105.9 WQXR Newark-New York, about 58 mi. out) right next to a strong B1 (105.7 WCHR Manahawkin, NJ) which is about 14 miles away, and can also get Class A 105.5 WDHA Dover, NJ (about 65 miles out). I'm very impressed with that. Nothing else I own can do what this Sony does. So, even if IBOC goes away, this tuner will still be useful to me.

 

[ddsparxx]

I doubt if the IBOC would go away, but if it were to go away, then the XDR-F1HD would be very useful in a metropolitan area. It is more selective than my unmodified Onkyo T-9090II probably more than a McIntosh MR-78 which I have never owned.

 

[richllewis]

All of you talking about HD-FM, A little reminder that some of the local areas in Mississippi other than MPR stations (NPR) and some other basically local College outlets is all we have in Mississippi outside of suburban Memphis, Mobile, and coast areas in Mississippi near New Orleans basically is giving a little taste but that is all. It really comes down to Clear Channel in Jackson converting their FM's in Biloxi, Jackson, and Meridian to HD. Unless you are into Classical and Jazz, Most of us Mississippi don't know what you are talking about.

For those of you who would like to hear an alternative, there is an experimental hookup on Short Wave that uses Digital Radio Mondiel in Alaska. In the Alaska forum there is more info. This technology is working on AM in Europe and maybe one day some of you might try this type of technology on an experimental basis to replace HD on AM

 

[Tom Wells]

The only alternative many of us want is to get the noisemaking modes completely off existing bands.

Those who believe radio must be digital.... just because,..... without knowing what is involved should first become informed
so they can seem believable. To just want something without caring how it happens is a very naive.

Any mode used in an existing band plan that introduces horrific noise for listeners is not something we're lookng to replace
with a different type of horrific noisemaker. That's like trading malaria for bubonic plague.
The goal is no disease, not official sanctioning of certain corporate diseases.

I welcome any and all modes, as long as they respect existing allocations, which isn't the way it's working now.
I'd be first in line to buy a digital only radio that was on a wavelength longer than existing FM, (old TV ch 5-6),
or ANY frequency not currently assigned to analog services.
I'm biased toward longer wavelengths, larger coverage and skywave, but narturally any digital radio will best survive at other end of the scale, with very short wavelengths, where radio begins to behave in line-of-sight mode. At which point it eventually loses all
radio-ness and becomes your iphone. And I'm in no hurry to have my radio replaced by a $60 a month bill for
a device with an awful user interface and no actual physical controls but requiring screen navigation, costing a god- awful amount,
easily broken, lost, or stolen. And I'd stil want to plug it in to something the size of a radio, because anything the size of a
cassette tape box is not going to ever sound OK to me.

I have a hard time seeing the advantages that must seem so clear to someone.
Please someone explain the advantages and reasons why radio ought to give up its best advantages and pretend to be something
other than what it is.
To me this is obviously wrong, like turkey bacon.

If it was successful, the end result would be more or less transparent to the user.
So far, that's not the way this experiment in digtial radio is working.

 

[tomservo]

All of you talking about HD-FM, A little reminder that some of the local areas in Mississippi other than MPR stations (NPR) and some other basically local College outlets is all we have in Mississippi outside of suburban Memphis, Mobile, and coast areas in Mississippi near New Orleans basically is giving a little taste but that is all. It really comes down to Clear Channel in Jackson converting their FM's in Biloxi, Jackson, and Meridian to HD. Unless you are into Classical and Jazz, Most of us Mississippi don't know what you are talking about.

Funny you mention MPR/MPB because ever since they went about the business of replacing some of the FM antennas to better accommodate HD radio I've lost noise-free reception from all three sites nearest me. So I doubt even with an outdoor antenna I'd get their HD.

Being 100 miles south of Memphis I do hear WREC and WDIA's HD sidebands clear during the day, but what are the chances of AM HD decoding from 100 miles out?

I'd be right behind Tom to get a new digital radio if TV channels 5-6 were reallocated for migrating AM over to digital. I'd also be a lot less angry at what iBiquity has done to the already dying AM dial if they'd adopted a different approach to AM HD. Instead of encouraging stations to toss up this horrible hybrid system, just sell radios that can decode AM HD for a decade, so that when a point is reached stations can start converting to digital only. In the interim they should include AM stereo or be at least semi-wideband capable so that AM still sounds decent in the interim. The goal should be to slow the implosion of the band, not hasten its demise.