Well Here it is!

[Carmine5]

The power increase has been approved--all 10 db of it.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296079A1.pdf

However there are a couple of caveats:

"Establish interference remediation procedures that require the Media Bureau to resolve
each bona fide dispute or impose tiered power reductions within 90 days; and
Reserve the right to revisit the issue of digital power levels if significant interference
results to analog reception."

c5

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

"Establish interference remediation procedures that require the Media Bureau to resolve
each bona fide dispute or impose tiered power reductions within 90 days; and
Reserve the right to revisit the issue of digital power levels if significant interference
results to analog reception."

Why don't we check that for credibility with Bob Savage before any sort of belief in the system sets in?

 

[R.F. Burns]

The increase has been approved by the FCC for FM facilities. Yep, another nail in the HD coffin. So far the anti IBOC group has been batting 1,000.

 

[radioskeptic]

Gloat all you like, R.F.! But when self-interference (as opposed to interference with other stations) starts to manifest itself, and listening drops off as a result, they'll be turning off the buzzsaws all over the FM dial. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, and this is one of those times.

Let's just hope this folly is aborted by stations that belatedly recognize their own best interests before it can do as much harm to the FM band as Iniquity's half-baked technology has already done to AM.

And incidentally, at this point, does anybody who hasn't been drinking the Iniquity Kool-Aid still have even a shred of respect for the FCC?

 

[TheBigA]

It's interesting that they throw the responsibility for interference at the Media Bureau, while at the same time the staff there has dropped. I expect they'll be as uneffective here as they've been in the past.

This may be, however, the first time they've even mentioned "interference" in a rule related to HD. Am I right?

 

[R.F. Burns]

Gloat all you like, R.F.! But when self-interference (as opposed to interference with other stations) starts to manifest itself, and listening drops off as a result, they'll be turning off the buzzsaws all over the FM dial. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, and this is one of those times.

Let's just hope this folly is aborted by stations that belatedly recognize their own best interests before it can do as much harm to the FM band as Iniquity's half-baked technology has already done to AM.

And incidentally, at this point, does anybody who hasn't been drinking the Iniquity Kool-Aid still have even a shred of respect for the FCC?

Y'see, you misunderstand me because I haven't been drinking the anti IBOC Kool-Aid as so many in here do on a regular basis. I've been reading about IBOC's imminent demise on this board for years now. With each prediction of doom comes the reality of growth, that while slow is occurring. I can't guarantee anything for HD radio but it isn't going away soon as so many in here promised it would. What is the reality of AM radio as we head deeper into the 21st century? While a few of NY's major market AM facilities are financially successful (& they are all 24 hour HD facilities), they are each expensive to run, being all news and all sports facilities and they each cover the entire market with a city grade signal. In Montreal tonight, 2 analog AM facilities on 690 & 940 Khz (both 50 KW) will be shutting down at 7 PM. AM radio is heading in the same direction as CW & the Manual transmission. I’m a CW operator and until my last car only drove manuals. They point here is that like AM radio both technologies hearken back to another era. The prediction is that while some AM facilities will exist 20 years from now most of the current crop will be a memory of another time. As listeners age out of the marketplace there are no new listeners to replace them. I am not gloating; I am trying to be a realist however.

 

[davideduardo]

Let's just hope this folly is aborted by stations that belatedly recognize their own best interests before it can do as much harm to the FM band as Iniquity's half-baked technology has already done to AM.

HD has done no significant harm to AM. AM is simply, as several other posts have mentioned, on its way out due to factors that have nothing to do with HD. And the closing and surrendering of the licenses of two 50 kw clear channel AMs in Montreal today shows that there is very little perception of value for AMs, even in major markets such as Montreal.

 

[audiophile.]

"Establish interference remediation procedures that require the Media Bureau to resolve
each bona fide dispute or impose tiered power reductions within 90 days; and
Reserve the right to revisit the issue of digital power levels if significant interference
results to analog reception."

Why don't we check that for credibility with Bob Savage before any sort of belief in the system sets in?

Some FCC people will lie to you. This just another case where they tell what you want to hear, then do nothing to stop the interference.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

I keep asking this question and never get an answer. Who is going to implement this power increase? Do they have the technology in place or are they going to invest capital to grab their 6-10 dB? Will lesser increases be allowed to those that have some amount of headroom available, or do they have to comply with a minimum 6 dB to qualify? I'd love to know who's going to spend money on this.

 

[8638]

I keep asking this question and never get an answer. Who is going to implement this power increase? Do they have the technology in place or are they going to invest capital to grab their 6-10 dB? Will lesser increases be allowed to those that have some amount of headroom available, or do they have to comply with a minimum 6 dB to qualify? I'd love to know who's going to spend money on this.

My guess is not many. Maybe the big boys with deep pockets, but how deep are anyone's pockets these days? The ROI does not seem to be there. Two million radios sold, 300 million Americans. As the robot on "Lost in Space" used to utter, "That does not compute!"

 

[TheBigA]

I keep asking this question and never get an answer. Who is going to implement this power increase?

I get the impression that NPR stations will jump on this pretty quickly.

 

[BRNout]

I keep asking this question and never get an answer. Who is going to implement this power increase?

I get the impression that NPR stations will jump on this pretty quickly.

Oh with all of the crowding down on the non-comm end of the band, that will be FUN! Now, we'll start to hear a lot more complaining from little community and high school stations that lose half of their audience when NPR cranks up the deep fryer.

It's interesting how the FCC continues to jam this down everyone's throats in a manner unnoticed by the general public. At least if they caught a clue and did this, but mandated the shutdown of IBOC on AM, I wouldn't be as agitated about it. Because this technology still does a lot more damage on AM. At least a station's own analog FM signal doesn't get mucked up with it as the AM ones do.

How can companies continue to pour money into this when nobody is buying the HD radios? Meanwhile, these same boneheads are laying off staff left and right. Makes sense, right?

 

[TheBigA]

How can companies continue to pour money into this when nobody is buying the HD radios?

Maybe you can be specific and show me how much money they're "pouring" into it.

Now, we'll start to hear a lot more complaining from little community and high school stations that lose half of their audience when NPR cranks up the deep fryer.

NPR has not supported the overcrowding of the educational part of the band, and has not supported LPFM.

 

[BRNout]

Maybe you can be specific and show me how much money they're "pouring" into it.

Specific? It varies by station. But it costs money to run the exciter, and it costs money to transmit and operate second and third formats that have yet to show any return on investment. Those formats generally include music spins that must be paid for. The only HD-2s and HD-3s that run any ads are formats that run somewhere else (a rebroadcast AM station or syndicated format). That generates no revenue on these HD subchannels. Paying licensing fees to Ibiquity is yet another cost that could have gone toward a board-ops meagre salary.

Given that the likes of Clear Channel, CBS, Citadel, Emmis and Cumulus have cut so deep (even with nickel and dimey things) that they probably charge employees separately for coffee and sweetener now, I'd say HD is an extravagance that doesn't make good financial sense at this point.

NPR has not supported the overcrowding of the educational part of the band, and has not supported LPFM.

So I suppose that makes it okay to step all over legally licensed stations that they don't support? That's not their call.

 

[TheBigA]

But it costs money to run the exciter, and it costs money to transmit and operate second and third formats that have yet to show any return on investment.

You couldn't hire a person for the amount of money a cluster spends on those technical costs.

Those formats generally include music spins that must be paid for.

Huh? Pay for spins? In what way?

 

[radioskeptic]

If they can't pay for the equipment, they won't be buying it. And even the big boys are going to have trouble paying for it, when with so many of the consolidators only months away from bankruptcy.

From what I've heard, perhaps as many as 30 percent of existing instrallations could have the digital power increased by 3 dB -- but not by 6 dB , much less by 10 dB. That would require new transmitters, even more expensive than their first IBAC transmitters. And increasing the power on those existing transmitters that could handle it will increase heat generation, which in turn will shorten component life (never mind the higher power bills both for transmitter operation itself and for air conditioning!). And if shortens the life of the existing "HD" transmitters? Great!

The worst part of it is that the technically ignorant honchos at some of the major public radio stations will probably be able to loot the public treasury via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting to pay for new transmitters!

 

[Carmine5]

According to the FCC order it says:

"Permit most FM stations to immediately increase digital power by 6 dB, a four-fold power increase;"

So that tells me that, right away, stations can do any power up to the full 6 db. According to the NPR Labs calculator many stations cannot do anything beyond -20 and others maybe only 2 or 4 db.

http://www.nprlabs.org/publications/distribution/IBOCpowercalculator/index.php

The full 10 db increase will have to be applied for on an individual basis.

c5

 

[TheBigA]

The worst part of it is that the technically ignorant honchos at some of the major public radio stations will probably be able to loot the public treasury via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting to pay for new transmitters!

They're not "technically ignorant." Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they're ignorant or that you're smarter than them. You simply disagree.

This issue was voted on by the Congress, which has publicly supported the conversion to HD radio and the PBS conversion to digital. You vote for Congress. How did your rep vote on this issue?

 

[radioskeptic]

I stand by “technically ignorant,” Big A. Small operators like Savage are generalists who understand every aspect of radio, including engineering. They have to.

At the consolidators, the top guys have often worked their way up from sales, or perhaps they were talent before going into management. Or worse, they’re non-broadcasters who imagine that what they learned in business school qualifies them to run any kind of business.

But seldom are they engineers, except for the corporate VP for engineering, who’s usually a real hack. These people have no respect for real learning of any kind, especially anything involving higher math (as opposed to accounting). They usually consider engineers a necessary evil.

And in public radio, it’s even worse. There, the overpaid top execs are often little more glorified fund-raisers and public relations types who don’t do any of the real work of the organization (much like overpaid university presidents who contribute nothing to campus intellectual life).

Don’t assume from the above that I’m an engineer by training. I’m not. I’m one of those people whose academic background is in the humanities, but who nevertheless have managed to learn the rudiments of audio and RF engineering well enough to understand radio thoroughly – which is more than I can say for too many of today’s top executives in both commercial and public broadcasting.

 

[BRNout]

You couldn't hire a person for the amount of money a cluster spends on those technical costs.

Hard to say. At some clusters, I would think that you could.

Huh? Pay for spins? In what way?

Not sure if you honestly don't know or what so I'll explain. When a station plays a song on the radio, that song has to be tracked, as do all others. A bill is paid to the record companies at the end of the month by the station. Something like 9 cents a spin - though there are some discounted royalty rates that I've heard of. Either way, it adds up and I don't believe there is an exemption for HD-2s. Thus, it most certainly does cost money to program ANY format on an HD-2 or HD-3.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong about that.