Can people in Sag Harbor and other places on the far eastern end of Long Island even hear New York City stations with a usable signal on an average receiver? If not, how can all of Suffolk County be in the Nielsen MSA? Is this where commuting patterns come in? The commuter who drives in and out of NYC five days a week and listens to NYC radio only when he's approaching the city while driving through Nassau County makes eastern Suffolk County part of the NYC MSA? Boggles the mind.
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WEPN 98.7 To Be Sold Next Year?
- Thread starter Barry
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Nielsen seldom divides counties into pieces; the system is not based on cities and towns but on counties.
It's been the system of Nielsen since 1965 and is acceptable to advertising agencies, the principle user of ratings data. TV measurements are also county based.
The few exceptions have to do with counties sharing multiple markets. Fairfield County, CT, is one example and MA has another where part of a county is in the Boston Market and part is in the Worcester market. Riverside Country, CA has a piece in the Riverside-San Bernardino market and a piece in the Palm Springs market and a huge piece in no market at all. But in these cases, the county contains multiple separate metro areas; Suffolk Country does not.
An example of changes: in 1982 those of us who were managers of Arbitron subscribed stations in Dade and Broward counties in FL voted on whether to combine two separate metros into one. In the past, AM listening was fragmented due to the majority of Miami AMstations not reaching Broward well but with the advent of increased FM listening most stations were heard well in both counties. The ones wanting combination prevailed and now we have a two country Miami book.
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So the theoretical Suffolk County-New York City commuter wearing a meter who listens to classic rocker WPLR New Haven from across the Sound on the way to work, then switches to WAXQ for the last part of the commute, only counts for his WAXQ listening? Or does his enjoying WPLR in the car from driveway to wherever WAXQ becomes the stronger signal also go into the NYC ratings, giving WPLR a theoretical 0.1 rating in the NYC book? And what of the New Haven book? Do all the WPLR (and other New Haven radio) listeners on Long Island not get counted in the New Haven tally?
As you say, the broadcasters and the advertisers are happy with the current set-up, no matter how many potential inaccuracies are pointed out, so this whole discussion is moot.
The WPLR listening by a Suffolk County resident would be counted towards the New York City and embedded Nassau-Suffolk markets. Ratings assignment is always determined by the residence of the meter-wearer/diarykeeper.
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One workaround to market caps involving New York City and Long Island occurred in 2012 when CBS Radio was able to convince the FCC that WLNY TV 55 Riverhead should not count towards New York City market caps since its "Noise-limited DTV signal" only encompasses parts of Queens and The Bronx - while none of the City's radio signals fully encompasses Riverhead NY.
Details by Scott Fybush: NERW 10/15/2012: Unpacking the New WFAN-FM
By the way, the sale price for 101.9 FM in October 2012 wound up being $75 million (from Merlin Media to CBS Radio).
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One workaround to market caps involving New York City and Long Island occurred in 2012 when CBS Radio was able to convince the FCC that WLNY TV 55 Riverhead should not count towards New York City market caps since its "Noise-limited DTV signal" only encompasses parts of Queens and The Bronx - while none of the City's radio signals fully encompasses Riverhead NY.
Details by Scott Fybush: NERW 10/15/2012: Unpacking the New WFAN-FM
By the way, the sale price for 101.9 FM in October 2012 wound up being $75 million (from Merlin Media to CBS Radio).
Why doesn’t Hartford/New Haven count as one market when the signals overlap so evenly.
There isn't a person alive, or a corporation, that would pay $75 million for a FM signal in New York City today. Things have changed.
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All listening is counted and is tabulated only for the market the panelist lives in. If a particular station does not meet the minimum reporting standards, it does not "make the book". And if it is not subscribed, the data will not show in the public release of ratings.
Yes, but it will only show publicly if the station subscribes to the NYC book and meets minimum standards.
People are counted in the market where they live. Advertisers want to know the behaviour of local residents in each market. Out of market signals listened to in any rated markets are registered in the market where the panelist or diary holder lives.
There are no inaccuracies in this area. If you are a Nielsen diary keeper or meter holder, whatever you listen to is attributed to the total listening of people in the market they live in. If you want an accurate measurement of what residents of a market do, you include their listening to out of market stations and/or their listening if they travel out of market. That is the only way to show what goes on with residents of each market, including total radio listening.
Of course, stations don't subscribe to the books in nearby markets as they can't get extra revenue from that listening. That is why, for example, nearly no station in LA subscribes to the Riverside San Bernardino ratings because, even if an LA station is in the top 5 in that adjacent market, they will get no added revenue because that is not how agencies buy radio.
The markets were determined back when AM ruled, and nearly no station in either market covered the other. And today, the markets cover counties and areas where the FMs from either may overlap partially, but do not cover entirely. That's why Hartford and Springfield are separate markets, too.
One of the criteria for being part of a market is having a high percentage of listening to stations that are home to the market. In this case, most Hartford listening has been to Hartford stations, and most New Haven listening to that market's stations.
See market definitions on the maps here ARBITRON NIESEN Market Maps - Methodlogy - Market Data
So why is it a combined market for TV?
Because TV markets were based on TV station coverage, not AM radio coverage.
Don't AM signals go farther than TV over the air ever did.
Not really. WTIC (AM) has marginal coverage of New Haven, but WFSB-TV has good coverage of New Haven.
The other AMs in Hartford, like 1360 and 840 have little to no coverage of New Haven.
The other AMs in Hartford, like 1360 and 840 have little to no coverage of New Haven.
I always thought of Hartford and New Haven as separate markets.
Remember, TV and radio markets are almost always different from each other.
New Haven has only ABC and PBS stations of its own. All other TV viewing in the city is of stations in the Hartford market. And that New Haven ABC station (WTNH) is also the station viewers in most of the Hartford market watch for ABC programming, although WGGB Springfield has viewers in the northern end of the market.
Hartford and New Haven is one TV market, not two separate ones.
Yes, I just posted to illustrate why that was the case.
Let’s say I have a meter and I am traveling cross country. Do those numbers count.
Yes, but in the market you are a permanent resident in.
If you are a resident of Huntington but vacation in Atlantic City (and take your meter and charger) your listening while on vacation to Atlantic City stations is tabulated in the New York City metro, not Atlantic City. The NYC survey shows the listening of local residents, not matter where they are.
Doesn’t that really fudge the numbers. If I’m 500 miles away from home but listening to the radio shouldn’t the local station get the data.
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