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WGN to add WABC-based show "The Other Side Of Midnight"

JoeU said:
Incredibly stunning that you can tune up and down the AM dial in the wee hours of the morning and hear virtually the same thing on what used to be 50kW "Clear Channel" stations and hear Red Eye Radio on virtually all of them. What ever happened to having a responsibility to holding a license for such large stations but showing zero responsibility to what used to be known and acceptable broadcast standards for your city of license.
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Those licences were granted when there was no FM, no internet and when there were barely 500 or so stations in the whole nation. The purpose of a higher power AM station today is to provide a listenable signal day and night in each one's market area.

People don't listen to noisy, fading and staticy distant stations on AM at night. Like network television, people look for good programming on local stations.

Further, there are no advertisers buying time for the kind of programming you'd probably like. Heck, stations can't sell late night and overnights locally, let alone for reaching some distant area.
 
Syfy said:
Well red eye radio just got dropped earlier this year on kdka so Wls is probably their biggest station they arent on many 50 kw stations any more. As crazy as it sounds I think frank moranos show might be on more 50 kw stations.
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"The Other Side of Midnight" is on four of the 50,000 watt Class A clear channel stations: WABC NYC, WGN Chicago, WCCO Minneapolis and KMOX St. Louis.

"Red Eye Radio" is on all of the Cumulus talk stations, including eight 50,000 watt outlets: WBAP Fort Worth-Dallas is the home base. Also WLS Chicago, WJR Detroit, KSFO San Francisco (formerly KGO), KOKC Oklahoma City, KBOI Boise, KKOB Albuquerque and KKOH Reno. (The latter three are not Class A but still 50,000 watts.)
 
And "Coast to Coast AM" has almost a clean sweep of the mid-band Clear Channels:

1040 WHO
1080 WTIC
1090 WBAL
1100 WTAM
1110 WBT
1140 WRVA
1170 WWVA
1180 WHAM
1210 WPHT
 
inari said:
Plus the fact that many guest on C2C either are or seem like informercial/paid spots as well. Then add in Noory's notable decline and high commercial load.
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That's probably true about WOR and infomercials .... I haven't listened enough to judge whether Mr Noory, as you say, shows "decline" .... as far as high commerical load, one look at the clock for the basic C2CAM show - hasn't changed since I ran the show years ago. One two minute network break per half hour...local breaks at top and bottom. "Same as it ever was..."
 
Nearby said:
That's probably true about WOR and infomercials .... I haven't listened enough to judge whether Mr Noory, as you say, shows "decline" .... as far as high commerical load, one look at the clock for the basic C2CAM show - hasn't changed since I ran the show years ago. One two minute network break per half hour...local breaks at top and bottom. "Same as it ever was..."
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Noory is just plugging more things IN the show itself instead of those spot breaks So the whore-out has definitely gotten worse. Critical Health News interviews are a show-length informercial. Then the steady parade of psychics, remote viewers, tarot readers, palmists, etc.
 
JoeU said:
Having a live a local show at past midnight holds up well in severe weather situations where today's radio is vast waste land. Syndicated talk apparently needs to be conservative as a preferred programming choice although most stations carrying these conservative talkers are consistent performing poorly but the station owners like them as in many instances reflect their political stances on issues especially taxes the corporations will/would have to pay.
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Where did you get so much misinformation?

Conservative talk stations are doing well, although with older demos, in many markets. They mostly sell locally, and find a decent array of advertisers. Station owners program the best format for revenue, and progressive talk has failed to produce ratings and revenue when tried.

Do you think all the owners of Country stations like country music? Owners look for the best way to produce revenue.
JoeU said:
Conservative talk is not a harmless programming choice for those that are drunk and ad dollar money,
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That makes no sense. Drunk?
JoeU said:
it also affects our national discourse as we are most assuredly seeing right now in todays's news.
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You can't "see" discourse, You hear it.
 
JoeU said:
Incredibly stunning that you can tune up and down the AM dial in the wee hours of the morning and hear virtually the same thing on what used to be 50kW "Clear Channel" stations and hear Red Eye Radio on virtually all of them. What ever happened to having a responsibility to holding a license for such large stations but showing zero responsibility to what used to be known and acceptable broadcast standards for your city of license.
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Today, there are over 15,000 radio stations in the USA. When the idea of clear channels was created, there were not even 1,000. So the nation needed those big signals to reach Flagstaff and Traverse City and Caribou. Today, those cities have a bunch of stations of their own.

The main purpose of those medium power "clear channel" stations today is to overcome local man-made noise and to reach areas in a metro where other AM stations don't reach.

And back when the clear channels were created, essentially non of them operated after midnight. It was not until very reliable equipment became available, mostly in the 60's and 70's, that many stations "left them on the air" overnight.

And these points don't cover the elephant in the room, which is the survivability of any AM station. A huge percentage of AM news, talk and sports stations have added an FM simulcast because that is how listeners in their local market area prefer to hear them.
 
davideduardo said:
Today, there are over 15,000 radio stations in the USA. When the idea of clear channels was created, there were not even 1,000. So the nation needed those big signals to reach Flagstaff and Traverse City and Caribou. Today, those cities have a bunch of stations of their own.

The main purpose of those medium power "clear channel" stations today is to overcome local man-made noise and to reach areas in a metro where other AM stations don't reach.

And back when the clear channels were created, essentially non of them operated after midnight. It was not until very reliable equipment became available, mostly in the 60's and 70's, that many stations "left them on the air" overnight.

And these points don't cover the elephant in the room, which is the survivability of any AM station. A huge percentage of AM news, talk and sports stations have added an FM simulcast because that is how listeners in their local market area prefer to hear them.
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Steve King and Johnnie Putman who did the 2AM to 6AM shift at WGN for many years claim that Nexstar wanted to bring them back for a 5 day a week show. They specifically said nights not a daytime show. They declined and instead said they would do one night a week which is currently 9PM to 2AM on Saturday night / Sunday morning.

They were doing nights on WGN from about 1984 thru 2011. 2011 was a turbulent time for WGN which was the Sam Zell, Kevin Metheny era which put the station into a tail spin. Steve is in his early 80s now and Johnnie is about 70. Their Saturday night show is mainly about the live music scene in Chicago along with tech and car talk.

Forcing conservative talk down everyone's throat which most of these overnight syndicated shows do is a poor programing option which in most cases reflects what station ownership wants to put out and what specific advertisers want to pay for. From a broadcast standards aspect, it was never a good idea to promote political ideology as a programing choice vs. discussing partisan political issues fairly with both sides of an issue being presented fairly. This worked very well throughout the 70s and early 80s until Rush Limbaugh came on the scene and the era conservative talk was promoted like top 40 rock'n roll. The broadcasters wanted more Rush Limbaughs and thus many Rush wannabes popped up on the AM broadcast band for over 35 years.

In WGN's case, Chicago radio listeners expect more out of WGN as a broadcast institution vs, what most expect out of WIND with Salem's conservative talk or Cumulus's idea of making WLS the most conservative station in the country, their stated goal. Cumulus is trying to copy that with KSFO, formally KGO in San Francisco. Nexstar's main reason for hanging onto WGN is to use it to promote their News Nation cable news channel as many of the personalities on News Nation are featured throughout the day parts of WGN's programing.
 
I could in theory see a general interest or lighter overnight talk show. It seems conspiracy or conservative stuff is all that’s out there but if you were going to do something different even as a low risk experiment that’d seem to be the place. A smart talent could probably do something with it.
 
Andy Travis said:
I could in theory see a general interest or lighter overnight talk show. It seems conspiracy or conservative stuff is all that’s out there but if you were going to do something different even as a low risk experiment that’d seem to be the place. A smart talent could probably do something with it.
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Fox Sports Radio has live overnight talk shows. ESPN does live overnights but they don’t take calls, although they do have a sponsored number (I think it’s sponsored by Dr. Pepper).
 
JoeU said:
Forcing conservative talk down everyone's throat which most of these overnight syndicated shows do is a poor programing option which in most cases reflects what station ownership wants to put out and what specific advertisers want to pay for. From a broadcast standards aspect, it was never a good idea to promote political ideology as a programing choice vs. discussing partisan political issues fairly with both sides of an issue being presented fairly. This worked very well throughout the 70s and early 80s until Rush Limbaugh came on the scene and the era conservative talk was promoted like top 40 rock'n roll. The broadcasters wanted more Rush Limbaughs and thus many Rush wannabes popped up on the AM broadcast band for over 35 years.
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What happened towards the end of the 80’s was the end of the Fairness Doctrine that pretty much required “balanced”programming whether stations wanted it or not. Rush rode a r ising tide of conservative voices; there was no successful liberal side.

In fact, when a progressive syndicated network came on the scene, it only worked well in a few markets to and lost its initial momentum rather quickly. There are a number of opinions why Air America f ailed, the most prevalent one being that the hosts were to intense and not a fun listen. And some believe that progressives tend to have different favorite causes and thus don’t have a great commonality in radio host preferences.

Station owners wanted anything that would help dying AM stations; in fact, the biggest Air America affiliate group was owned by Clear. Channel.
 
I was listening to Noory the other night, and the decline has gotten worse. When he's speaking, his voice now trails off to the point where he starts mumbling. Its too sad to try and listen to him now. Premiere, I'm sure, must be planning for the future. They have a number of fill in hosts. In fact, when Noory is gone, not having a permanent host, and instead rotating the different hosts they have now would make the show a lot more interesting to listen to, and with more diverse topics and subject matter.

I have heard that Bill Handel on KFI (in his mid 70's) hired a voice coach to help him sound youthful and more vibrant on the air. Maybe that might help George Noory.
 
KilowattKat said:
I was listening to Noory the other night, and the decline has gotten worse. When he's speaking, his voice now trails off to the point where he starts mumbling. Its too sad to try and listen to him now. Premiere, I'm sure, must be planning for the future. They have a number of fill in hosts. In fact, when Noory is gone, not having a permanent host, and instead rotating the different hosts they have now would make the show a lot more interesting to listen to, and with more diverse topics and subject matter.

I have heard that Bill Handel on KFI (in his mid 70's) hired a voice coach to help him sound youthful and more vibrant on the air. Maybe that might help George Noory.
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I remember when Noory took over the show he said he'd do it for maybe 5 years. It's sad to hear the mental decline. Bob Grant stayed on the air much too long too.

Howard Stearn said on WNBC, "Robin, we're doing this for 5 years, " while slamming some other host for staying past his prime.

I guess quitting isn't easy.
 
JoeU said:
Incredibly stunning that you can tune up and down the AM dial in the wee hours of the morning and hear virtually the same thing on what used to be 50kW "Clear Channel" stations and hear Red Eye Radio on virtually all of them. What ever happened to having a responsibility to holding a license for such large stations but showing zero responsibility to what used to be known and acceptable broadcast standards for your city of license.

Pretty sad.
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The idea is this: "skip" doesn't matter anymore. Even if you're a 50 kw blowtorch like WSCR or WGN, management now draws a hard geopolitical boundary on who they serve to their potential advertisers. It's no longer how far can we reach...it's can we reach our audience well. Which is why WBBM, WSCR, and WMVP are all going to cheaper real estate and rent for their tower. As long as they can hit northeastern Illinois and northwestern Indiana, everyone else outside that area absolutely does not matter, even if they can be heard in 42 states. And, sadly, very few listen to stations outside of their market via skywave at night. Plus, the nighttime audience has dwindled greatly. And listeners after the evening rush hour are frequently ignored until the crack of dawn. Thus, bland, low-budget simulcast programming is what you get in evenings and overnights.

And finally, in the spring book, I think WMVP or WSCR had more streaming listeners than those listening over-the-air by a slight margin. That may become the norm sooner rather than later...
 


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