WGN to add WABC-based show "The Other Side Of Midnight"

[JoeU]

The idea is this: "skip" doesn't matter anymore. Even if you're a 50 kw blowtorch like WSCR or WGN, management now draws a hard geopolitical boundary on who they serve to their potential advertisers. It's no longer how far can we reach...it's can we reach our audience well. Which is why WBBM, WSCR, and WMVP are all going to cheaper real estate and rent for their tower. As long as they can hit northeastern Illinois and northwestern Indiana, everyone else outside that area absolutely does not matter, even if they can be heard in 42 states. And, sadly, very few listen to stations outside of their market via skywave at night. Plus, the nighttime audience has dwindled greatly. And listeners after the evening rush hour are frequently ignored until the crack of dawn. Thus, bland, low-budget simulcast programming is what you get in evenings and overnights.

And finally, in the spring book, I think WMVP or WSCR had more streaming listeners than those listening over-the-air by a slight margin. That may become the norm sooner rather than later...

This line of reasoning is what is killing the broadcast industry as a whole. The fact that you can consider conservative talk a programing choice like choosing country music over rock and not thinking that your creating a propaganda base that can eventually change the entire direction of the country was just stupid and harmful thinking. You have to wonder how many programers from decades ago sleep well at night knowing that they help plant the seeds for the U.S. going in the direction of a dictatorship. I would feel grossly ashamed of myself.

Live and local programing after midnight is a loss leader getting who ever is listening be it night workers, people having trouble sleeping, people that are lonely just needing a voice to listen to keeping the radio tuned to your station in the day parts where the revenue is generated. Hearing Red Eye Radio or After Midnight on multiple stations is just plain boring and uninteresting. All of this just drives one to seek out alternative media such as podcasts and YouTube videos.

In the day parts does it make sense to have dueling conservative talkers trying to be more outrageous than the other or is it better to do a more public service type of offering giving solid news and rounded opinion like existed back in the 60s and 70s? I guess if Brendan Carr has his way we'll have even more conservative talkers as it appears he'll pull the licenses of those who dare to put a liberal voice on the air.

The broadcast industry is broken and the broadcasters have know one to blame but themselves for putting out such poor programing choices.

As for AM station moving to inferior sites, background noise is going to be a big issue as noise levels are more prominent than they used to be. One more reason to push the listener to the FM simulcast especially in the case of WBBM AM. I'm betting that WSCR will appear on 104.3 after their switch to the WYLL site as it's signal will be noisy south and southwest. WMVP has a noisier signal in general over Chicago since it's move to Joliet vs the old Downers Grove site. The only benefit to the Joliet move is the night signal improvement in the far southwest burbs where the Downers Grove site put out a deep null in that direction. Northern burbs, way nosier. So, yes you'll add to your bottom line by selling land and leasing a site from another broadcaster but you can count on your signal being degraded even in the local area where it matters. The old sites were designed the way they were for a reason which was to provide a full quieting ground wave signal. The night time skip was just an added bonus.

 

[davideduardo]

This line of reasoning is what is killing the broadcast industry as a whole. The fact that you can consider conservative talk a programing choice like choosing country music over rock and not thinking that your creating a propaganda base that can eventually change the entire direction of the country was just stupid and harmful thinking. You have to wonder how many programers from decades ago sleep well at night knowing that they help plant the seeds for the U.S. going in the direction of a dictatorship. I would feel grossly ashamed of myself.

As someone who added Rush to two Florida stations very early in his syndication career, I am proud of having found what became a huge trend. I am proud of adding a format that reflected the beliefs of a majority of listeners there. I am proud that we got lots of listeners and made money on AM when that band was considered dead by many.

Live and local programing after midnight is a loss leader getting who ever is listening be it night workers, people having trouble sleeping, people that are lonely just needing a voice to listen to keeping the radio tuned to your station in the day parts where the revenue is generated. Hearing Red Eye Radio or After Midnight on multiple stations is just plain boring and uninteresting. All of this just drives one to seek out alternative media such as podcasts and YouTube videos.

Overnights is not a "loss leader". It is "having your station available all the time". Whatever the reason for listening at 2 AM or whenever, you want to be there to capture listeners... who likely will also be listeners later in the day.

In the day parts does it make sense to have dueling conservative talkers trying to be more outrageous than the other or is it better to do a more public service type of offering giving solid news and rounded opinion like existed back in the 60s and 70s?

It did not get ratings when compared to conservative talk. We did it only because of legal requirements. Once those were repealed in the 80's, stations did what got audience and revenue.

I guess if Brendan Carr has his way we'll have even more conservative talkers as it appears he'll pull the licenses of those who dare to put a liberal voice on the air.

There is no evidence of intervention based on political content at all.

The broadcast industry is broken and the broadcasters have know one to blame but themselves for putting out such poor programing choices.

We make programming choices based on what will give us more listeners and more revenue.

As for AM station moving to inferior sites, background noise is going to be a big issue as noise levels are more prominent than they used to be. One more reason to push the listener to the FM simulcast especially in the case of WBBM AM. I'm betting that WSCR will appear on 104.3 after their switch to the WYLL site as it's signal will be noisy south and southwest. WMVP has a noisier signal in general over Chicago since it's move to Joliet vs the old Downers Grove site. The only benefit to the Joliet move is the night signal improvement in the far southwest burbs where the Downers Grove site put out a deep null in that direction. Northern burbs, way nosier. So, yes you'll add to your bottom line by selling land and leasing a site from another broadcaster but you can count on your signal being degraded even in the local area where it matters. The old sites were designed the way they were for a reason which was to provide a full quieting ground wave signal. The night time skip was just an added bonus.

The old sites were "designed" to fit the available land and the directional pattern or signal of each station; most of the decent facilities were designed and built in the 1930's.

Today, markets have expanded way beyond what the original design of most early "good facilities" were planned for. Nulls that were in farmland or wastelands are now highly populated areas. The usable signal may not reach all extremes of the market, either.

And, with unfortunate frequency, stations that need to replace a tower due to aging or a storm or whatever find that zoning and NIMBY actions don't even allow the rebuilding of the original facility.

You are forgetting that, in some states, real estate taxes can be increased based on valuations. So a station may be paying taxes on a $50 million dollar piece of property and, due to that, losing money!

And most successful AMs are finding that they have to add an FM or, eventually, die of old age.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

Live and local programing after midnight is a loss leader getting who ever is listening be it night workers, people having trouble sleeping, people that are lonely just needing a voice to listen to keeping the radio tuned to your station in the day parts where the revenue is generated. Hearing Red Eye Radio or After Midnight on multiple stations is just plain boring and uninteresting. All of this just drives one to seek out alternative media such as podcasts and YouTube videos.

Very few stations are live and local at 12 noon, even fewer at 12 midnight. You're fighting a battle that was lost 30-40 years ago.

 

[wadio]

Overnights is not a "loss leader". It is "having your station available all the time". Whatever the reason for listening at 2 AM or whenever, you want to be there to capture listeners... who likely will also be listeners later in the day.

That's exactly what I've always said about weekends. Many listeners used to have a favorite station that was there every time they turned on the radio. When stations started selling infomercials on the weekends that changed so the listeners wouldn't necessarily be there on Monday morning. I truly believe that's at least partly responsible for the state of radio today.

 

[radiofan2023]

Live and local programing after midnight is a loss leader getting who ever is listening be it night workers, people having trouble sleeping, people that are lonely just needing a voice to listen to keeping the radio tuned to your station in the day parts where the revenue is generated. Hearing Red Eye Radio or After Midnight on multiple stations is just plain boring and uninteresting. All of this just drives one to seek out alternative media such as podcasts and YouTube videos.

ESPN Radio is live overnights and so are Infinity Sports Radio and Fox Sports Radio.

 

[Weiserguy]

ESPN Radio is live overnights and so are Infinity Sports Radio and Fox Sports Radio.

Yes, if you want to be harangued about teams (or entire sports) that you don't give a shit about, then those guys are live. Not exactly local though. Tweedle dee, tweedle dum, and tweedle dumber.

If "live" is your benchmark, Red Eye and C2C are live also, at least their first feed is. But that's not what @JoeU was really talking about.

 

[Delete My Account]

It did not get ratings when compared to conservative talk. We did it only because of legal requirements. Once those were repealed in the 80's, stations did what got audience and revenue.

Caveat here. What got audience and revenue in Florida talk radio in the 80s and into the 90s included non-conservative hosts. Florida always had a strong showing for personality talk, and that included hosts like Neil Rogers, Randi Rhodes, stints for Tom Leykis and Phil Hendrie, Jay Marvin. Along with a pretty revolutionary at the time station called Real Radio in Orlando, which had a lot of comedy and personality talk plus the left-leaning Jim Phillips.

So something other than conservative talk did pretty well for stations like WIOD and WTKS in that era.

 

[wadio]

If "live" is your benchmark, Red Eye and C2C are live also, at least their first feed is.

But they're not live on the weekends (at least Red Eye isn't, not sure about C2C.) You'd think they could shell out a few extra bucks for a live weekend host.

 

[ILOVERADIO]

But they're not live on the weekends (at least Red Eye isn't, not sure about C2C.) You'd think they could shell out a few extra bucks for a live weekend host.

C2C is live on the. Weekend with different hosts than the weekday show. Same types of weird conversations on the weekend. Amazing it’s by far the highest rated after midnight radio show.

 

[davideduardo]

Caveat here. What got audience and revenue in Florida talk radio in the 80s and into the 90s included non-conservative hosts. Florida always had a strong showing for personality talk, and that included hosts like Neil Rogers, Randi Rhodes, stints for Tom Leykis and Phil Hendrie, Jay Marvin. Along with a pretty revolutionary at the time station called Real Radio in Orlando, which had a lot of comedy and personality talk plus the left-leaning Jim Phillips.

But by the early 90's, much of that audience was gone. The leading talk stations were in Spanish.d

And shows like Neil and Leykis that I listened to in the 80's while in Miami were not anywhere nearly as polarized as the post-2000 conservative talk shows: while "outspoken" they were not offensive to either side of the color spectrum.

So something other than conservative talk did pretty well for stations like WIOD and WTKS in that era.

But look at how WIOD died going into the 90's, down in the one share range at the end of the decade. They went more conservative at the end very end of the 90s and snapped back a bit.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Duncan-American-Radio/Duncan-1975-1992/Miami.pdf

 

[JoeU]

Very few stations are live and local at 12 noon, even fewer at 12 midnight. You're fighting a battle that was lost 30-40 years ago.

Most Chicago stations are live and local at 12 noon.

WLS and WIND are heavily syndicated with the typical conservative talkers that attract a 65+ listenership that advertisers shy away from. So much for catering to a younger demographic for increased ad revenue. Cumulus is probably the worst of the big radio conglomerate owners with poor management and lack of programing smarts. iHeart is not far behind. Audacy who is emerging from bankruptcy probably had the most integrity of the big three due to their CBS and Westinghouse lineage but, that's quickly fading. Salem is in business to get their political and religious message out. Salem will probably benefit greatly from leasing their WYLL transmitter site from Audacy's WSCR and WBBM, helping to keep both WIND and WYLL afloat. Same could be said for Heartland Signal leasing the WCPT night site to WMVP as it will help WCPT stay afloat as well. Heartland Signal a rare progressive broadcaster is a small time operator compared to the conservative Salem.

I'm not fighting any battle. Just pointing out the obvious. The radio broadcasters are loosing their battle to stay relevant primarily due to mergers and acquisitions done decades ago, controlling the music and news and dictating the politics they wanted to get across. As a result, they are no longer relevant and either fighting off bankruptcy or attempting to reorganize from it.

 

[KilowattKat]

Good news for those who hated the addition of Lionel as host of " The Other Side of Midnight" on WGN. He's gone... permanently replaced by weekend host Walter Sterling. The difference is like night and day, and the show is now much more in line with WGN's type of talk programming. The change began suddenly on Monday

Walter Sterling Replaces Lionel as Host of 'The Other Side of Midnight' on 77 WABC

Lionel began hosting the daypart last June following the exit of Frank Morano.

barrettmedia.com

 

[KilowattKat]

From last night's show...

It was mentioned that Lionel will now do the weekend version of the show " Another Side of Midnight.

John Catsimatidas put out a full page ad in the New York Times advertising the new show.

Is Lee Harris of WGN, the person responsible for the changes?

Conspiracy theories, and UFO's seem to be a popular topic.

 

[Weiserguy]

From last night's show...

It was mentioned that Lionel will now do the weekend version of the show " Another Side of Midnight.

John Catsimatidas put out a full page ad in the New York Times advertising the new show.

Is Lee Harris of WGN, the person responsible for the changes?

Conspiracy theories, and UFO's seem to be a popular topic.

Is Lee Harris of WGN the same Lee Harris that used to be the Lee Harris who anchored 1010 WINS?

 

[KilowattKat]

Is Lee Harris of WGN the same Lee Harris that used to be the Lee Harris who anchored 1010 WINS?

That's the one. Lee Harris is now Director of Integrated Operations for WGN, and good friends with Walter Sterling. It appears Lee had a lot to do with the new elevated position for Sterling.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

From last night's show...

It was mentioned that Lionel will now do the weekend version of the show " Another Side of Midnight.

John Catsimatidas put out a full page ad in the New York Times advertising the new show.

Is Lee Harris of WGN, the person responsible for the changes?

Conspiracy theories, and UFO's seem to be a popular topic.

Are you sure that ad was the Times?

Catsimatidis only advertises in the New York Post, because it's cheap (like he is) and it's the only paper he reads (and is aligned with his worldview).

 

[KilowattKat]

Are you sure that ad was the Times?

Catsimatidis only advertises in the New York Post, because it's cheap (like he is) and it's the only paper he reads (and is aligned with his worldview).

Probably was the Post, it was late at night, and was falling asleep. I did learn that Cats does like baseball, as he is part of an investment group that owns The Staten Island Ferryhawks. The talk was about the open tryouts for the team. Apparently anyone was welcome to come out and try out for his team.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

Probably was the Post, it was late at night, and was falling asleep. I did learn that Cats does like baseball, as he is part of an investment group that owns The Staten Island Ferryhawks. The talk was about the open tryouts for the team. Apparently anyone was welcome to come out and try out for his team.

Off-topic but juicy: Cats recently took on an expanded role with the FerryHawks. The previous person who oversaw the team was a Democratic operative from New Jersey who was "asked" to "step aside" a couple of months ago (ironically, after Democrats kept control of the NJ governor's office). Seeing as the team struggles on the field and at the box office–because who wants to watch baseball on Staten Island, right–someone had to take the fall. Truth is like WABC, the team is a money-losing venture that's propped up by Cats' billions (and a visit by the Savannah Bananas, if they're lucky).

The FerryHawks' only known player of note the last few seasons has been Pablo Sandoval, the former big-league third baseman who won three World Series with the San Francisco Giants. I don't think many are flocking to ride the S.I. Ferry to see a 40-year-old former World Series MVP whose best days are well behind him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's back with them this season.