So I am driving around, and thought I'd check in on good old AM 1010. Man what a weird station they have turned into.. Are they really trying to get listeners? Are there any people working there? Any revenue? Strangest mess of music I have heard in years. Will 35-55 year olds truly miss "Love Jones" by Brighter Side of Darkness if it never played? And other old skool strangeness with no back announce. Never heard a spot..or anything just song after song..middle of the afternoon on a Thursday. Who's paying for the electricity to keep that great daytime signal on? Processing was..a little shrill..coulda been a contender...
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WGUN..whaaat?
- Thread starter jefflaurence
- Start date
I do not understand why they changed from the oldies and standards, I for one will not be listening to WGUN anymore, it is obvious to me that who ever is running this station has absolutely no clue of what they are doing. They are destroying what was once a great radio station to listen to!
For the first time in it's history WGUN has a single format! No more 3 R's.....no more hodgepodge of music and infomercials....a real, consistent, sound from sun up to sun down. Not a bad choice of music for an AM approach IMO.
The station sounds very good technically on every radio I have listened to. Processing sounds great for AM.
I have opined here before about going with a music approach at WGUN - I think it's a mistake destined to fail. It would take a ton of ad dollars to position the station in the community and since it's a niche format it would get a .5 share at best. The return on investment would never be enough to justify the outlay upfront. And then you have the problem of who will sell it......
Niche marketing is the answer for WGUN....and I would jump on the health/wellness bandwagon. Center the programming around Dr. Chris and Duke &the Doctor.....get every trainer and gym rat you can find on the air and for free. Get these guys to bring, and build an audience. When you have listeners..... and only then......you can start charging money for product ads, infomercials, etc.
There are enough people who are interested in health that you could build an audience. But it can't be wackjobs....it has to be mainstream programming accessible to the average Joe/Jane.
To position any station with any format you must advertise. Ads cost $$$ and with no advertising you are destined to fail. And you still need a few warm bodies who can sell time. They cost money, too. So again....the Rivers are faced with spending money to make this station go or......well....more of the same.
If it were my problem I would find a way to bust up the ED Rivers trust and sell these stations.....all of them. Then they could take the 4-5 million dollars and split it up.....and never have anything to fight about again.
The station sounds very good technically on every radio I have listened to. Processing sounds great for AM.
I have opined here before about going with a music approach at WGUN - I think it's a mistake destined to fail. It would take a ton of ad dollars to position the station in the community and since it's a niche format it would get a .5 share at best. The return on investment would never be enough to justify the outlay upfront. And then you have the problem of who will sell it......
Niche marketing is the answer for WGUN....and I would jump on the health/wellness bandwagon. Center the programming around Dr. Chris and Duke &the Doctor.....get every trainer and gym rat you can find on the air and for free. Get these guys to bring, and build an audience. When you have listeners..... and only then......you can start charging money for product ads, infomercials, etc.
There are enough people who are interested in health that you could build an audience. But it can't be wackjobs....it has to be mainstream programming accessible to the average Joe/Jane.
To position any station with any format you must advertise. Ads cost $$$ and with no advertising you are destined to fail. And you still need a few warm bodies who can sell time. They cost money, too. So again....the Rivers are faced with spending money to make this station go or......well....more of the same.
If it were my problem I would find a way to bust up the ED Rivers trust and sell these stations.....all of them. Then they could take the 4-5 million dollars and split it up.....and never have anything to fight about again.
Tom, I believe the lawsuit was decided in favor of Georgia Salva's brothers, and she has been out for a while.
When I was listening a few weeks ago, a jock was on the air, and he sounded good. But that station in this form will never be able to pick up an audience going against the full-time Urban FM's. And as you say, how do you establish awareness among listeners and sell the station to advertisers? This was not a good move on the part of Rivers Radio. Infomercials were WGUN's bread and butter. Maybe your health/wellness idea would fly.
When I was listening a few weeks ago, a jock was on the air, and he sounded good. But that station in this form will never be able to pick up an audience going against the full-time Urban FM's. And as you say, how do you establish awareness among listeners and sell the station to advertisers? This was not a good move on the part of Rivers Radio. Infomercials were WGUN's bread and butter. Maybe your health/wellness idea would fly.
I thought 50s/60s oldies was a good match considering the gap in the market now that TOC is gone and the fidelity limitations of the AM band.
I would suggest trying talk...but if WCFO can't make a go out of third-tier syndicated talk neither will WGUN (although one could argue that WGUN has a much better signal than WCFO's POS signal).
There's all-news...but you're dealing with the same daytimer issue WGST has. If you don't get them at the start of AM drive they won't tune in when the sun is up.
If WGUN stays urban, they're going to go right into the triple buzzsaw of CBS, Cox, and Radio One.
Now where's that 25kW night signal they keep bragging about? Put up or shut up time...
I would suggest trying talk...but if WCFO can't make a go out of third-tier syndicated talk neither will WGUN (although one could argue that WGUN has a much better signal than WCFO's POS signal).
There's all-news...but you're dealing with the same daytimer issue WGST has. If you don't get them at the start of AM drive they won't tune in when the sun is up.
If WGUN stays urban, they're going to go right into the triple buzzsaw of CBS, Cox, and Radio One.
Now where's that 25kW night signal they keep bragging about? Put up or shut up time...
The Rivers family has been fightin' since they buried Dee Rivers back in the early 80's. My guess is it will continue until they find a way to bust up the trust and go separate ways.
The infomercial business will only work with sufficient capital outlay for advertising and staff. And the infomercials have to be coherent or "formatted" if you will. There must be a common thread, or theme, to keep people tuned in The problem they have always had is the programming jumped from health product infomercials to insane religious zealots to right wing talk shows to.....you get the idea. It's impossible to build an audience with that approach to programming.....and with no audience the time buyers get no response....and they cancel. There is a steady supply of crazy people with money so there will always be another buyer for that 30 minutes of time but to build a following they(WGUN) will have to change and insist on airing only good programming consistent with their goals.
Health/wellness/personal development would be the best focus for such an effort. Duke and the Doctor is a good show....it is carried on a hundred or so stations and is mainstream. They had a local guy, Dr. Chris, who runs a local health food store, and he was great on the air. Plus.....he brought listeners. With some good marketing I think you might find a decent size older audience for these programs. And then get a trainer, or two, from a local gym to do shows. Before long you have a reasonable niche audience and if you feed them good programming.....consistently....you might grow this audience to a marketable size group.
It will never be a huge ratings winner but it could become a very profitable radio station. And that is, after all, what really counts.
The infomercial business will only work with sufficient capital outlay for advertising and staff. And the infomercials have to be coherent or "formatted" if you will. There must be a common thread, or theme, to keep people tuned in The problem they have always had is the programming jumped from health product infomercials to insane religious zealots to right wing talk shows to.....you get the idea. It's impossible to build an audience with that approach to programming.....and with no audience the time buyers get no response....and they cancel. There is a steady supply of crazy people with money so there will always be another buyer for that 30 minutes of time but to build a following they(WGUN) will have to change and insist on airing only good programming consistent with their goals.
Health/wellness/personal development would be the best focus for such an effort. Duke and the Doctor is a good show....it is carried on a hundred or so stations and is mainstream. They had a local guy, Dr. Chris, who runs a local health food store, and he was great on the air. Plus.....he brought listeners. With some good marketing I think you might find a decent size older audience for these programs. And then get a trainer, or two, from a local gym to do shows. Before long you have a reasonable niche audience and if you feed them good programming.....consistently....you might grow this audience to a marketable size group.
It will never be a huge ratings winner but it could become a very profitable radio station. And that is, after all, what really counts.
They could just do what Weiner and Franz and the other fellows that run commercial shortwave stations do..take Pay Pal, and give them a phone number to call..when it's your time, call the number and have at it. As long as it is legal, you hear the beep...GO...they shut you off when your time is done, and go to the next one. It really doesn't matter if there are zero listeners..the whack jobs and nut balls have money and Pay Pal accounts..
mr Taylor is right..a niche format would be okay for them. Health is big business, and it would work. But it would..like diets..become tiresome and interest would fade...then what.
The radio station will never be worth more than it is right now. If they can not bust up the trust, and take the money they would be better off than pretending to be a viable Atlanta station.
The back to back soul records from the 70's just doesn't have any juice. Jocks or not.
mr Taylor is right..a niche format would be okay for them. Health is big business, and it would work. But it would..like diets..become tiresome and interest would fade...then what.
The radio station will never be worth more than it is right now. If they can not bust up the trust, and take the money they would be better off than pretending to be a viable Atlanta station.
The back to back soul records from the 70's just doesn't have any juice. Jocks or not.
That's actually a great idea, Jeff! And it would probably work great!! Let crazy people buy time by the minute with credit card or PayPal. Tell 'em to wait for the beep......and then keep your finger on the "dump" button.
I might be inclined to give that a listen on those days when I'm taking Vicodin.......
I might be inclined to give that a listen on those days when I'm taking Vicodin.......
Piggybacking on what Jeff Laurence said, the station is a WEIRD format..Inconsistent programming and from what I undertand some folks aren't STILL GETTING PAID..The days of being SEEN and noticed are gone especially on AM.. 2 Urban AC's and one POWERHOUSE URBAN will not draw any listeners to that station in Tucker,Ga.. They still owe me money!!
taylorengineer said:
You might have an idea: "WGUN Crazy Radio 1010." Listeners could come on and say, "This is Tom from Tucker. I'm crazy, and I listen to WGUN." They could give away crazy buttons, and button wearers spotted by the WGUN Crazy Man would win prizes. Now that would get some attention.
Well, I WAS gonna suggest digging into Old Time Radio and sell the old network shows to sponsors as blocks. Then throw in songs from 30s and 40s as filler like they did at one time, BUT, by the turn this thread has taken, any ideas from here on out will probably be taken as "crazy". 
Time to get some consulting from Joe Weber...
Time to get some consulting from Joe Weber...
Roddy.....you have truly missed your calling in life! Crazy 1010 would actually generate some buzz!!
Jabba.....you're correct, sir! WGUN does sound technically very good.
Trusty......now I don't care who ya' are....that's funny!! WWJD.....what would Joe do??!! (We can sell bracelets!)
I keep thinking that radio drama like the stuff from the 30's and 40's just might work if they were done in short segments with the news/weather/traffic segments inserted. Off the wall radio soap operas.....small groups of musicians doing live music segments.....game show segments.....and a modern day Jack Benny or Bob Hope to tie it all together.
Problem with that concept is the price! That would cost some real $$$!!
But look at the potential upside if it really did take off. How many more formats are there out there that can be done on the cheap and still attract listeners?
And what about the kids who would rather hear music on Pandora or Spotify? How are we going to evolve radio to attract the kids who are spoiled on IPods? My kids....and their friends.....don't care about radio. The girls listen to Q100 and Wild but can't tell you any jocks name or even what station it is. They only know the frequency. And their loyalty lasts as long as they are playing something they want to hear. My sons, 21 and 17, can't even tell you which stations I work for.....and as long as the checks don't bounce could care less.
This industry MUST find people with new ideas and new approaches if it is to remain relevant. I think wireless internet will soon allow listeners to program their own news/traffic/weather segments into their own playlists of music.....and they will be allowed to pick the slant of the news, the anchor, specific traffic reports exclusively for their route to work, and dependable Kirk Mellish weather forecasts. The ads and music will be downloaded to your radio while you sleep....the only real live segments will be news/weather/traffic.
My guess is that this is where real personality radio will come back.....when bean counters and research hacks no longer control the programming elements.
And Arbitron will be a distant bad dream. We will have real listener data with none of Arbitron's statistical dog squeeze!
Wake up radio industry leaders.......the bell tolls.....and it tolls for thee!
Jabba.....you're correct, sir! WGUN does sound technically very good.
Trusty......now I don't care who ya' are....that's funny!! WWJD.....what would Joe do??!! (We can sell bracelets!)
I keep thinking that radio drama like the stuff from the 30's and 40's just might work if they were done in short segments with the news/weather/traffic segments inserted. Off the wall radio soap operas.....small groups of musicians doing live music segments.....game show segments.....and a modern day Jack Benny or Bob Hope to tie it all together.
Problem with that concept is the price! That would cost some real $$$!!
But look at the potential upside if it really did take off. How many more formats are there out there that can be done on the cheap and still attract listeners?
And what about the kids who would rather hear music on Pandora or Spotify? How are we going to evolve radio to attract the kids who are spoiled on IPods? My kids....and their friends.....don't care about radio. The girls listen to Q100 and Wild but can't tell you any jocks name or even what station it is. They only know the frequency. And their loyalty lasts as long as they are playing something they want to hear. My sons, 21 and 17, can't even tell you which stations I work for.....and as long as the checks don't bounce could care less.
This industry MUST find people with new ideas and new approaches if it is to remain relevant. I think wireless internet will soon allow listeners to program their own news/traffic/weather segments into their own playlists of music.....and they will be allowed to pick the slant of the news, the anchor, specific traffic reports exclusively for their route to work, and dependable Kirk Mellish weather forecasts. The ads and music will be downloaded to your radio while you sleep....the only real live segments will be news/weather/traffic.
My guess is that this is where real personality radio will come back.....when bean counters and research hacks no longer control the programming elements.
And Arbitron will be a distant bad dream. We will have real listener data with none of Arbitron's statistical dog squeeze!
Wake up radio industry leaders.......the bell tolls.....and it tolls for thee!
taylorengineer said:
We seem to be in some kind of "interim phase" world of radio right now. It is possible today to piece together elements on an mp3 player and with a bunch of Podcast material, create your own station. BUT, that is currently possible because broadcasters and "recently former broadcasters" are putting a lot of stuff out there we can download. If the "podcast smash-ups" become the choice of the masses, broadcasting as we know it might not have the finances to keep putting stuff on the web for people to grab. At that point, where do we reach out to get the pieces to put on our iPods? Even to read things on screen it is getting where everybody wants a subscription fee. $20 per year here, $99 per year there, $399 per year over there. I could easily see waking up some morning realizing I am spending $3,000 per year in subscriptions just to read this newspaper and that newsletter.
Are people ready to pay out $1,000 up to $5,000 per year so they can download all the good stuff they want in the way of Podcasts?
And podcasters don't have a base income from the radio station any more, what kind of material will they be able and willing to make available for $20 to $200 per year subscription. Will we realize six years from now that our mp3 player has become as bland and non-interesting as the radio spectrum is today?
!gawd I hate it when I get this pessimistic this early in the day! ;D
I forgot who coined this phrase but, "content is king." The mechanics of delivery are quickly becoming not important.
My main thought is that radio must become something different to remain an important part of people's daily routine.
It takes no particular talent to play music and read liner cards. The people who do seem to have a knack for gab mainly opine on Hollywood gossip and network television programming. (There are plenty of people, mostly women, whose universe is pretty much limited to who was kicked off "Dancing With the Stars" the night before.)
We are lacking entertainers who can consistently create "content." People like George and Gracie Burns.....Bob Hope......Jack Benny.....and all the other yesteryear stars from the infancy of radio. We do not have anyone like that period! Oh yes....they are out there - just as plentiful as in years past. But not in radio. Not in radio because the medium has become so narrowly defined and cost sensitive. There are only a couple of paradigms and no company has the gut instinct to try something new and different.
We very well may be paying for content in the future. When I was a kid I never thought we would pay for television. I still can't believe people pay $14/month to hear Howard Stern talk to strippers. We pay for content.....for entertainment....for information.
And I believe the companies who position themselves as providers versus delivery conduits are going to be the ones who prosper.
My main thought is that radio must become something different to remain an important part of people's daily routine.
It takes no particular talent to play music and read liner cards. The people who do seem to have a knack for gab mainly opine on Hollywood gossip and network television programming. (There are plenty of people, mostly women, whose universe is pretty much limited to who was kicked off "Dancing With the Stars" the night before.)
We are lacking entertainers who can consistently create "content." People like George and Gracie Burns.....Bob Hope......Jack Benny.....and all the other yesteryear stars from the infancy of radio. We do not have anyone like that period! Oh yes....they are out there - just as plentiful as in years past. But not in radio. Not in radio because the medium has become so narrowly defined and cost sensitive. There are only a couple of paradigms and no company has the gut instinct to try something new and different.
We very well may be paying for content in the future. When I was a kid I never thought we would pay for television. I still can't believe people pay $14/month to hear Howard Stern talk to strippers. We pay for content.....for entertainment....for information.
And I believe the companies who position themselves as providers versus delivery conduits are going to be the ones who prosper.
Mr Taylor...we need to meet up at One Star BBQ in Buckhead for a plate of ribs and to gab. You are observant and seeing the big picture here. As this thread started as a WGUN thread, remember that every market large and small has a WGUN or three, and many even have underperforming FMs, but true enough most under 21 year olds don't even realize that radio is there at all. Never mind active or passive listening..radio is NOT cool, and furthermore people who WORK in radio are dweebs and dinosaurs. Try assembling more than 4 college kids for an elective course on broadcasting, and you will hear crickets..between the mumbling of the few who signed up for it because it sounded like a gut course..and one who wants to be Howard Stern, and one who wants to be Al Michaels and go to football games for free. There is no interest in the medium. None. This is the reason the broadcast companies can not find good talent IF they wanted to, and they don't. It poses a loss of control if a "personality" flexes his or her creative abilities. The absolute ONLY chance a terrestrial audio entertainment source has is to become DIFFERENT, compelling, edgy..and COOL to listen to. Build a perception that radio (and especially AM) has a world of unusual and damn near forbidden programming to persuade new listeners to adapt radio as a guilty pleasure..almost a return to listening on an earphone under the covers at night. An underground community of niche listeners can become very profitable. More Art Bell types..more Joe Pyne, and more bizarre whackos that stand on the edge of being less than savory...slightly smarmy and nearly illegal.
Yes it is going to take a move THAT aggressive. And balls. Big ones. A new Randy Michaels incarnation could pull it off. When that person surfaces..if ever..there will be a massive cume infusion and radio..might be okay.
Yes it is going to take a move THAT aggressive. And balls. Big ones. A new Randy Michaels incarnation could pull it off. When that person surfaces..if ever..there will be a massive cume infusion and radio..might be okay.
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