What anti HD people ignore

[JimmyJames]

I'd like to point something out to all of you who suggest webcasting as a substitute for HD radio.

Namely, your theory doesn't work in more rural areas.

I've worked plenty of markets where there's spotty at best voice cell coverage much less the data capacity required for streaming. And the local economy doesn't encourage people adopting what's about as useless there as you claim HD is.

I could see selling HD radio to those people. I can't see massive boosts in capacity, selling tons of smartphones and having everyone walking around listening to niche streams with no local weather or news and sports.

HD at least allows different formats that may be of interest while enabling me to insert local content. For smaller markets, it's a better proposition than "let them eat internet."

 

[RadeoEngineer]

And how do the smaller market stations pay for the horrendously expensive installation and licensing?

 

[JimmyJames]

There's good money in small market radio. Not every operator spent foolishly like the big guys did.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

And how do the smaller market stations pay for the horrendously expensive installation and licensing?

By selling their stations to the HD radio cartel. :

 

[SUPERCASTER]

There's good money in small market radio. Not every operator spent foolishly like the big guys did.

Why dilute their already limited audience?

Most small market stations have limited coverage and population in their area. HD radio coverage is much less then their analog. Less then one in a million radios in North America is an HD radio. Chances are no one will be listening.

 

[Ken Tucky]

Digital 2 could be "Kow" 106.5! Super-serve your biggest audience (but be sure to equip the bovine with antennas on their heads - & be sure there's a pad between them and the units so the hot-running HD radios don't burn their flesh...) Sounds great, huh? HD could also stand for Horse Dung!

 

[SUPERCASTER]

There's good money in small market radio. Not every operator spent foolishly like the big guys did.

Why dilute their already limited audience?

Most small market stations have limited coverage and population in their area. HD radio coverage is much less then their analog. Less then one in a million radios in North America is an HD radio. Chances are no one will be listening.

Internet radio solves these problems by making small station content available worldwide to hundreds of millions of potential listeners.

The top rated internet stations have millions of listeners, most small market over the air stations don't.

A solution for small market FM's and even a replacement for adjacent channel HD radio could be FMeXtra.

 

[JimmyJames]

Small market stations value local news and sports. In a lot of areas that isn't online.

 

[BRNout]

Even stations in small markets can't afford to program HD2 signals! I was in Rapid City and the only HD signals I was getting were coming from their NPR station. In Sioux Falls, a couple of stations broadcast in HD - but with no HD-2 or HD-3 feeds. This tells me that the economics simply aren't there.

As far as super-serving an audience in these areas, dream on! At least 9 of 10 stations in rural areas are now primarily bird-feed. Very little local content.

Internet radio, fed via the wireless broadband networks of cellular providers, is the future. Even in rural areas.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Small market stations value local news and sports. In a lot of areas that isn't online.

But should be, so that travelers and military service members could still listen to their hometown station, personalities, interviews, news, and teams.

 

[oaktree]

There's good money in small market radio. Not every operator spent foolishly like the big guys did.

I'd like some of what he's smokin'.

In a small "rural" market of 26 stations, the top 10 stations here are all semi-to fulltime automated or voice tracked, the bottom 15 stations haven't turned a profit in a decade or longer, staffs are being eliminated, syndication is the rule 20 hours or more a day in even the most competitive clusters and billing is down 30-70 percent so far this year. The doors are locked by 5 p.m. in most places.

Now, about those single station rimshots in the rural areas? Most have never heard of HD radio and the local "Shack" and "WalMart" don't sell them."Best Buy" doesn't either, as there is one NPR station in the market and when you ask for an HD Radio - you get pointed to the Sirius XM display.

Oh, and this an "affluent" coastal market controlled by 3 significant groups and a handful of independents, including religious broadcasters.

The most over-radioed market in the country with a quarter-million population.

Don't kid yourself. That "good money" is coming from besieged retailers from radio, two in-market TVs, newspaper, print and cable who are working the rate cards to as low as they can get the rates. It's a buyer's market, not a sellers.

HD radio in many of these "small" markets is not even a consideration, let alone a luxury.

As for Internet, there are plenty of options to allow more than dial-up streaming. For those not able to do that, their choices of small town FM and/or AM serves those masses -- many times, however, not well as used to be. A bad economy does that.

Doomsday? No. But those "reserves" aren't there like believed.

And, no, HD Radio isn't the answer to success or survival in these markets.

Ever consider radio sales for a living? You might just do well.

 

[Bongwater]

What PRO-HD People Ignore

Here's my problem with digital terrestrial radio in the US. First, HD Radio is a proprietary system. DRM/DRM+ is open source. DRM makes FAR more sense than HD anyday. It should be an optional system for broadcasters/listeners. Like choosing Linux over Windows.

 

[Tom Wells]

I'd like to point something out to all of you who suggest webcasting as a substitute for HD radio.

Namely, your theory doesn't work in more rural areas.

I don't get the question....

Well, HD doesn't work in metro areas, so why would rural areas be any better, where you need to cover a greater area?

We'd be looking for something that works better than wi-fi, HD, etc. Something robust like ANALOG radio.

 

[Savage]

There is a reason why HD Radio has, thus far, been primarily a medium to large-market phenomenon. And that is: iBiquity, it its infinite ineptitude, made sure to include in its marketing strategy a pricing regimen that puts HD out of the reach of all but the wealthiest stations.

Not only are the exciters, importers, exporters and licensing unrealistically expensive, ongoing operating costs for stations using HD are prohibitively so. When using a common antenna for analog and digital, reject loads are necessary which dissipate up to 90% of the RF generated as waste heat. This squanders utility power in two ways: first of all, using energy to produce RF that doesn't result in a hearable signal, plus the air conditioning and ventilation necessary to dissipate the wasted energy. Transmitter tube life is shortened by up to 50%.

Then there's the endless tinkering with cranky double antenna systems, frozen exporters, firmware upgrades and constant juggling of audio delay systems to match the analog transmission with the digital to avoid diversity tuneouts when receivers default back to analog. A leading consultant and part-owner who regularly posts here, has estimated that HD imposes an increased engineering resource demand of 30 to 40 percent.

Maybe small-market stations have, as a rule, been better stewards of their financial resources than have typical Alliance operators, but OTOH they're working with smaller, leaner resources to begin with. HD doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint regardless of the market size. Whether it's market #1 or market #300, there's no demand, no need, no interest, no upside for broadcast operators who don't have investment in the system at the development level.

That's why the only operators who are boosting HD are those who have direct or indirect ownership interests in the system (or some individual engineers who have foolishly staked their careers on HD) - and even some of those are backing away over interference concerns.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Namely, your theory doesn't work in more rural areas.

I've worked plenty of markets where there's spotty at best voice cell coverage much less the data capacity required for streaming. And the local economy doesn't encourage people adopting what's about as useless there as you claim HD is.

I could see selling HD radio to those people. I can't see massive boosts in capacity, selling tons of smartphones and having everyone walking around listening to niche streams with no local weather or news and sports.

HD at least allows different formats that may be of interest while enabling me to insert local content. For smaller markets, it's a better proposition than "let them eat internet."

Nobody in their right mind is anti-HD radio. The vast majority are anti-HD radio INTERFERENCE. If HD radio did not jam adjacent frequencies, there would not be a single negative post, except for a very few people who post about the poor quality audio.

You tout it as a solution for rural areas, and I have to admit, I've sat in a field doing a test of HD radio reception 70 miles out, every single station locked, not a problem - no need in my view for an FM power increase, because there were just a lot of cows and scattered farm houses around. Other people have reported reliable lock 84 miles out. How much more range do you folks need?!

The main problem for rural listeners is localism about affairs that affect their community. Small regional AM and FM stations that barely make a go of it financially and certainly couldn't afford the massive fees and upgrades that accompany HD. When you get out in parts of the rural west, there may be only one or two stations even receivable in the daytime, and nighttime brings home the folly of HD AM because the noise floor is horrific across the entire US on the AM band - largely due to HD AM along the Eastern seaboard. It shocks me, frankly, how well that interference propagates thousands of miles away, well beyond the range of the analog signal. To rural Westerners listening to things like KRVN Lexington NE or KTNN Window Rock AZ, the interference is unwelcome at best and enough to cut people off from vital news and information at worst. Of course somebody will always glibly respond - well you can get that on the internet. Poor rural folks in isolated farm houses might have dial up at best, if they even care about computers at all or have anything better than a 286. So internet is not an option - what is needed in the rural West is long distance, high powered analog AM, because FM just doesn't have the range to reach across hundreds of miles. Truly clear AM channels are the most cost effective means of covering hundreds of thousands of square miles.

As far as FM HD is concerned, there are already reports of distant FM HD stations hijaaking a local analog signal. Unfortunately for HD radio, the entire duration of this experimental system has been during a solar minimum. Once the solar cycle reverts to normal or high activity, FM skip will be back with a vengeance. Add to that an HD power increase, and the potential for FM interference is severe! 1000 W does not skip very well, but 10,000 does! So how about all of those high power HD stations in the West clobbering your station with skip - you will have an unlistenable situation because now there are three times the stations on the air (main plus two sidebands) coming in on skip. What a MESS you are advocating, and it is inevitable. Atmospheric skip WILL be back, it will be unpredictable, and the signal strengths will be enough to override local signals with HD from across the country.

Nobody expects WiFi to be immediately available in rural areas. But with both dials junked up with Spanish language chatter from over the border, HD hash, AMs on translators, and dull lifeless formats abounding - people like me inclined to DX before will put up with coverage gaps to "DX" by streaming. So what if there is a drop every so often? We are no worse off than we were with DX. And the rewards with streaming are access to thousands of streams instead of vastly over crowded radio dials with a couple of hundred choices.

 

[audioguy]

Oh, look at this! Check out the article on Internet for your car on the Radio-Info home page!

 

[Gatekeeper007]

Radio in the early days was a way for rural america to get much needed information and stay in touch with the rest of the country and the world. Today there are many ways to stay in touch with the world but this doesn't work very well for rural america. Where I live us rural but not nearly as much as a whole lot of other places (you would have to be from a rural area to know what I am talking about city people wouldn't understand, just like asking where food comes from they still answer the grocery store, there is a bigger picture trust me). Here we get spoty cell coverage since digital came along analog worked pretty good. Internet yes on dial up maybe high speed if you don't need to much bandwith and if you happen to live in the right area the rest are out of luck. If this would have happened back in the days of electric lines being run across the country to supply the first electric service and if large corpations controled everything and money was the only bottom line then rural america wouldn't have had electric power. In radio the over inflated prices for a station to go HD is the killer just like the over inflated gas prices drained and killed the economy in this country. Some people would say rural america doesn't matter that much well the next time you go to the store or sit down to eat think about it does the food come from the grocery store? Really? This is the reason many things fail that people can't figure why, not seeing the bigger picture.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

According to David Eduardo who posts on this board, it is very difficult to sell rural radio coverage outside a station's city grade to advertisers. If so, then few stations are likely to invest in HD equipment or programming to cover rural areas. No return on investment. I suggest local stations, LPFM or translators might be more practical to cover rural areas.

Clear channel AM's used to cover many rural areas, but those days are mostly gone thanks to band congestion and HD radio.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

According to David Eduardo who posts on this board, it is very difficult to sell rural radio coverage outside a station's city grade to advertisers.

Then why are the vast majority of radio ads on the 50 kW flamethrowers for national chains or national services? I don't hear but a handful of local ads for things like car dealers on those stations.

Let's be sure and tell WSM, KTNN, and other stations like them that cater to a devoted and niche audience, and stations in Alaska that provide service to remote areas that nighttime skywave coverage doesn't matter any more, and is not important in their advertising campaigns.

Anybody care to go to a truck stop and tell truckers they are old fashioned for listening to skywave radio at night?!

 

[Savage]

David was wrong then, and is wrong today. There are many stations which derive advertising dollars from service outside their SMSA or local retail area. WSM is just one.

And apart from the ludicrous suggestion from HD zealots that anything outside your immediate COL is some kind of "bonus" which you have received for decades but you're no longer entitled to it - many people derive enjoyment and service from distant AM signals. These people are not freaks, nuts or - the bete noir of the HD faction - hated "DX'ers." They do this even despite the interference havoc HD Radio is inflicting on the AM band.

They're simply people who want to hear major league baseball, country music, information or whatever - from a good ol' RADIO, and not a freakin' computer, thank you very much.

Nor do they all live on the steppes of North Dakota or empty desert reaches of New Mexico. Think rural Pennsylvania, where local stations are daytimers or tiny FMs that don't bend around the Endless Mountains. They might kinda like listening to their beloved Phillies in the Series on AM Radio, stupid DX'ers that they are. (Sarcasm /off/.)