What anti HD people ignore

[davideduardo]

Then why are the vast majority of radio ads on the 50 kW flamethrowers for national chains or national services? I don't hear but a handful of local ads for things like car dealers on those stations.

I just looked at the monitor for KFI, and I could not find one out of market advertiser... one, a Honda dealer in Riverside (not in the market) has copy focused on LA residents who are invited to drive out to Riverside for the lower prices. Otherwise, the accounts are LA market specific or placed by agencies for the LA audience.

National accounts by radio for local market coverage... not distant coverage. And nearly all paid advertising is run 6 AM to 7 PM, which much of the year is pure daytime.

Ads running late at night on the clears is predominantly PI, run on the chance that a few dollars may come in from it.

Most stations, AM or FM, have next to no car dealer ads today.

Let's be sure and tell WSM, KTNN,

WSM is the lowest billing of all the former 1 A clears, with revenues of less than $20 k per month. It does not make money. KTNN serves the Navajo Nation, and it does so better by day than by night because the night signal nulls to part of the Navajo territory and it is subject to interference from Mexican stations in that zone. By day, it does a great job of covering the intended audience.

Anybody care to go to a truck stop and tell truckers they are old fashioned for listening to skywave radio at night?!

You'll have to ask them to turn down their satellite radios first... nearly all intterstate truckers have given up on the ratty quality and fading and noise on AM for the variety of satellite.

 

[davideduardo]

David was wrong then, and is wrong today. There are many stations which derive advertising dollars from service outside their SMSA or local retail area. WSM is just one.

There are very few stations getting revenue from outside their MSA (metropolitan survey area) because advertising by agency accounts and large advertisers who buy in-house use a market by market approach to buying. Stations with significant audience in adjacent metros generally derive no revenue from them.

Many of the LA stations are major performers in the Riverside San Bernardino market, but I know of no case of that helping them on an LA buy, much less getting them a better rate. And the LA stations, of course, can not sell in the Riverside market...

AM distant coverage is a night phenomenon, and most advertising is placed 6 am to 7 pm. No match there.

As to WSM, it's current revenues are at or below $20 k a month, making it one of the most dismal performers in its market... all its audience is over 55, and there is scant advertiser interest.

 

[KB1OKL]

As to WSM, it's current revenues are at or below $20 k a month, making it one of the most dismal performers in its market... all its audience is over 55, and there is scant advertiser interest.

And also what a great link to the former past glory of clear channel radio when it mean something other than greed, bring back the clears, we need personality in radio or it will go the way of the dodo, er I mean HD radio

 

[Savage]

"Most stations, AM or FM, have....no car dealer ads today?"

That would come as startling news to stations in most upstate New York radio markets. Actually this has been a banner year for car dealer advertising on the radio here. It's one of the top three local advertising categories in total dollars. Car dealers spent like drunken sailors on "Cash For Clunkers."

There were big factory co-op programs for Chrysler and Ford, and we had dealers calling scrambling wanting to burn off co-op budgets because they had to "use it or lose it." As in: they were discovering ad dollars they didn't initially realize they had. We had one major advertiser who lost his a franchise thanks to the Chrysler dealer realignment - and he responded by increasing his budget.

It hasn't slowed down: now that new car inventories are down, they're all promoting used cars like crazy, which thanks to CFC are selling at record prices.

Car dealers are a robust and lucrative radio sales category. They've spent a record amount on WYSL this year. The big group players have had a good year with cars too.

 

[davideduardo]

Car dealers are a robust and lucrative radio sales category. They've spent a record amount on WYSL this year. The big group players have had a good year with cars too.

Automotive is off around 80% per RAB based on pre-recession dollars. The category has nearly disappeared, and about a third of all car dealers are closed or in the process of closing. Inventories are reduced to about a third of what was common before, as floor financing has dried up.

 

[davideduardo]

As to WSM, it's current revenues are at or below $20 k a month, making it one of the most dismal performers in its market... all its audience is over 55, and there is scant advertiser interest.

And also what a great link to the former past glory of clear channel radio when it mean something other than greed, bring back the clears, we need personality in radio or it will go the way of the dodo, er I mean HD radio

WSM is the only one of the former 1 A clears to still be doing a music format... with personalities. And the listeners could care less. The rest of the 1 A's are doing news / talk or all sports. And they are doing well, as in most of the markets where they are located, they are the only station that covers the rated metro day and night (WTAM, WHO, WOAI, WWL, WSB, WCCO, etc. are good examples of this). Even then, they are plagued with the "oldness" of the AM listener, and some, like WWL, have added FM simulcasts to attract younger listeners.

 

[davideduardo]

"Most stations, AM or FM, have....no car dealer ads today?"

Clever and deceptive edit there, AM Boy. I said that stations.... had next to no car deal ads today; your edit significantly changed my statement and spun it into an ill-based conclusion on your part. Compared to years past, automotive (cars, car dealers, auto supply, used cars) is off by 80% nationally. And most stations have next to no car dealer ads today.

 

[Savage]

Wow....THREE posts PLUS name-calling. Must be a slow day around the Gleason/Eduardo "Hacienda."

Did an AM tower fall on your dog or something? While you're heaping derision on the entire population of 4700 AM stations and denying the existence of millions of dollars in car-dealer radio revenue in Upstate New York, you might want to check:

http://www.radioworld.com/article/89902

There was an ellipsis in my quote. That's the indication that something was removed for clarity.

 

[davideduardo]

There was an ellipsis in my quote. That's the indication that something was removed for clarity.

Generally, that device is used to remove extraneous words... in this case, you conveniently changed the entire meaning of my statement.

"Ask not what your country can do.... ask what you can do..." is not the same as what Kennedy said.

 

[radiotower40]

Here in Chicago there is still a lot of automobile advertising on the radio. WBBM, WIND and WGN, run a lot
of ads for car dealership's. There are also a large amount of dealership ads running on the FM side as well.
They are run very frequently on some of the top rated FM's such as WDRV, WVAZ and WLS FM, to name a few.

 

[davideduardo]

Here in Chicago there is still a lot of automobile advertising on the radio. WBBM, WIND and WGN, run a lot
of ads for car dealership's. There are also a large amount of dealership ads running on the FM side as well.
They are run very frequently on some of the top rated FM's such as WDRV, WVAZ and WLS FM, to name a few.

Yes, and automotive, as I said (and which was maliciously edited or "savaged"), is off 80% over the last 2 years, and along with financial institutions is responsible for the bulk of the drop in radio advertising overall.

 

[landtuna]

It seems that 80% lost to radio has moved to TV. Car ads predominate here.

 

[davideduardo]

It seems that 80% lost to radio has moved to TV. Car ads predominate here.

It has not gone anywhere. To quote the head of Regent, "We’re selling tons of car commercials to lots of car dealers, but the unit cost is down to the point where that is driving part of the problem with decreased revenues.” Auto advertising was off 40% last quarter helping push Regent revenue down 14%. And that is compared to last year, which was also off by similar amounts... thus, about 80% reduction in auto ad dollars, whether it be radio or TV.

Nationally, nearly a third of dealers have closed or are in bankruptcy, and floor financing is nearly gone, driving inventories to about a third of traditional levels. Car sales themselves are off, with around 10 million units projected for this year, vs. 17.1 million units as recently as 2005. When sales are off 40%, most dealers are unprofitable and cut ad expenses eiter by getting lower rates or by advertising less.

 

[stacker]

Mr. Gleason/Eduardo. Refresh me. Now, just why should we heed your advice?

 

[davideduardo]

Mr. Gleason/Eduardo. Refresh me. Now, just why should we heed your advice?

I'm not giving any advice in this thread. I am just correcting the mistaken impression that automotive advertising has not suffered in the last two years of recession.

Among the facts that have been subject to contradictory posts are:

1. Auto (dealer and automotive) are down about 80% over 2006.
2. Depending on the area, anywhere between a quarter and a third of dealers have closed.
3. Many dealers are close to bankruptcy, and advertise less
4. Ad rates have tumbled, and car dealers are getting very attractive deals, sometimes less than a third of former rates.
5. Auto ads have not moved to TV as was suggested. TV ad revenue for the category has gone down in similar amounts.

My only advice is to check the facts; the automotive category is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

 

[KB1OKL]

I would have to say that to most people who are not splitting hairs "next to nothing" and "nothing" mean practically the same thing especially when they are used to express an idea not an exact quantity.

 

[davideduardo]

I would have to say that to most people who are not splitting hairs "next to nothing" and "nothing" mean practically the same thing especially when they are used to express an idea not an exact quantity.

I asked a couple of people, and "next to nothing" to all of them meant "a very small amount. " "Nothing" on the other hand means "nothing."

And in this context, what is left of the automotive category is "next to nothing." One broadcaster, Regent, in its earnings call, said the category was off 77% this year. On top of declines last year, that is truly "next to nothing."

 

[Savage]

Wow...we're still beating that dead "nothing/next to nothing" horse? Let's see now: "nothing" would be, by definition...zero. "Next to nothing" could mean one or two. It's a distinction without a difference. Anyway anyone who thinks I quoted you unethically could just scroll up the page and read your initial statement verbatim. The latter category, by the by, of posters who apparently think this numbers precisely one - who would be, YOU. Or you might say: "next to NO posters here agree with you."

Now, let's turn to your claim that a 77% decrease in car dealer business at Regent equates to "next to nothing." That means 23% of the business is still there (atypical, IMHO, compared with this region, but I'm letting that go.) To keep the math simple, if the group did $5 million in car business in 2008, the most recent period meant $1.15 million.

Could you please send me a check for $1.15 million ASAP? You'll never miss it. It's "next to nothing."

 

[SirRoxalot]

Auto advertising was off 40% last quarter helping push Regent revenue down 14%. And that is compared to last year, which was also off by similar amounts... thus, about 80% reduction in auto ad dollars, whether it be radio or TV.

Whoa, sorry to be late to the party, but there's a SERIOUS flaw in your math here, David. You too, Bob.

Auto advertising was down 40% from 2007 to 2008. Let's say that auto was - for convenience sake - $1,000,000 in 2007. That means that it was $600,000 in 2008.

It was down another 40% from 2008 to 2009. 40% of $600,000 is $240,000, which means that Auto brought in $360,000 in 2009. HARDLY "nothing" OR "next to nothing". It's more like 36% of the 2007 numbers.

Hey, isn't this a discussion of HD radio? If so, then couldn't the money dumped into facilities and licensing for HD radio be better spent elsewhere? Obviously, HD isn't bringing in any NEW audience. If anything, it's diluting the existing audience, reducing ad rates even further - all in a flawed technology with NO affordable receivers that reduces the fidelity of existing stations. My guess is that money could be better spent reducing debt, improving programming, or improving on-line capabilities.

BTW - Savage is wrong, too, so please send ME $1.8-Million.

 

[davideduardo]

It was down another 40% from 2008 to 2009. 40% of $600,000 is $240,000, which means that Auto brought in $360,000 in 2009. HARDLY "nothing" OR "next to nothing". It's more like 36% of the 2007 numbers.

RAB is saying 80%, and I think they have a good grasp on the market.

If GE stock were off 80%, I think most people would say you could get the shares for next to nothing... twenty cents on the dollar is pretty thin.

There is an auto dealer magazine that a friend who owns a dealership showed me yesterday... they thing as many as a third of all surviving dealerships are at bankruptcy level now, so we might have a reduction of half of all dealers.