What can be done to save rock radio?

[Neanderpaul]

Your wrong on most of your points.
I'm assuming your a PD who doesn't know the listener cause 95% of corperate suits don't. I'm not trying to sound harsh so I apologize if it sounds this way

It absolutely sounds harsh. Because you retort with telling me I'm wrong, and then attempt to toss a passive-aggressive slam on top of it. That may be the first time I've ever been accused of being a "corporate suit"

If people know you will play a band.. they will call in and suggest it.

No. They won't. If people *want* to hear a band, they will call in and suggest it. Plus, there are hundreds of thousands listening at any given time, and maybe a hundred or so will call in on any given day. If you run a station completely based upon the 200 people who might call each day, that will be your total audience.

Hey.. I want to here Slaughter "Up all Night" from 1989 but I won't call your station and request it cause I know you won't play it
.. also that song wont be 1 of the songs you play for me on the phone for me to hit 1=Like 2=Dislike cause again, it's not out there to give a answer to #1.

Here's a partial list of stations playing the song you referenced:

WJXQ-FM Lansing
KBER-FM Salt Lake City
KZRR-FM Albuquerque
WMMS-FM Cleveland
WCCC-FM Hartford
KISW-FM Seattle
WGIR-FM Portsmouth, NH
WBYR-FM Ft. Wayne, IN
WROV-FM Roanoke, VA
WKQZ-FM Saginaw, MI
KMOD-FM Tulsa
KFLY-FM Eugene,
WMMR-FM Philadelphia
WQXA-FM Harrisburg
WIYY-FM Baltimore
WDHA-FM Morristown,
WEBN-FM Cincinnati
KRDJ-FM Lafayette, LA
KBOB-FM Quad Cities, IA-
WJJO-FM Madison, WI
WHEB-FM Portsmouth, NH
WHJY-FM Providence
WIIL-FM Chicago
WEND-FM Charlotte
WRIF-FM Detroit
WQBK-FM Albany, NY
KATT-FM Oklahoma City
WAAF-FM Boston
KTUX-FM Shreveport, LA
KAZR-FM Des Moines
KCLB-FM Palm Springs, CA
WRCQ-FM Fayetteville, NC
WIOT-FM Toledo
WJRR-FM Orlando
KQRC-FM Kansas City
WTKX-FM Pensacola, FL
WXFX-FM Montgomery, AL
WXTB-FM Tampa
WXZZ-FM Lexington, KY
WZZO-FM Allentown
WXQR-FM Greenville, NC
WRQK-FM Canton, OH
KFRQ-FM McAllen
KOMP-FM Las Vegas
WEDG-FM Buffalo

And that's only the stations in monitored markets. Still, looks like a pretty healthy list of Rock stations eh?
Maybe not the best example...

Suits play the same bands all the time and that's why ratings are bad.

Ratings aren't bad. You must only have access to the "public" numbers. There's a reason those are free.

People are going to Talk radio..especially in the 30s-40s cause they heard the same damn songs for 20-25 years every single day on the radio.

You still haven't backed up this opinion. People are *not* "going to talk radio." In fact, people aren't going anywhere. The overwhelming majority are happy with what they hear on the radio every day. They listen in droves. Statistically speaking, it is the most repetitious stations that have the highest audiences. That would be the Top 40 world.

Yes we are tired of hearing the same stuff over and over again. Play popular stuff that was big 20 years ago..but hardly play it.. another words.. EXPAND YOUR PLAYLIST!

*You* might be tired. You, are the extreme minority. This is a mass-appeal business. The masses are satisfied.

Your reasons on most of your replys are flawed and out of touch with the listener. Some are valid, but most are not.

Then refute them. Factually.

If you really want to make a station work... make it fun to listen to. If you play Active Rock.. play more New Music.. everyone loves New Music.. if your a Classic Rock station... Expand your playlist and stop playing the same overplayed songs cause you get the wrong idea by giving out samples of the same music. Your samples are flawed and it's what fails.

Show me where it's failing. You cited that radio won't play certain music. I cited 45 examples that refute your assertion.

I ask you to cite one *legitimate* example that supports your assertion. Anything else, is the individual rant, of a disgruntled internet surfer.

If that sounds harsh, it was intentional.

 

[radiobum]

There are a zillion examples of Classic Rock songs that could be played. Check out Sirius/XM's Classic Rock channels.

 

[agentUrge]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not in the industry...just a fan not only of rock but of radio as well...so my opinion is going to be more from a consumer standpoint rather than business. But I do get that it's advertising dollars that make it go 'round.

Anyway, this is something that's been on my mind for a while and it goes beyond radio. It seems to me that rock, as a genre, is pretty much being ignored by the industry...maybe they don't like what's coming out these days, I don't know.

Look at, for example, the 2012 Billboard music awards.


TOP ALTERNATIVE ARTIST
COLDPLAY, FOSTER THE PEOPLE, FOO FIGHTERS, MUMFORD & SONS, THE BLACK KEYS

TOP ROCK ARTIST
COLDPLAY, FOSTER THE PEOPLE, FOO FIGHTERS, MUMFORD & SONS, THE BLACK KEYS

This looks like nobody cared enough to consider the artists and the genres and essentially just did a simple copy/paste. (This happened with the Top Rock and Alternative Album categories as well.) I like Foo Fighters..I like The Black keys...but I don't think they other artists really needed to be in both categories and I really don't consider Coldplay a rock band...not in the sense we are used to. Maybe it was a name recognition thing...I don't know. This just screams "we're billboard magazine...and we're out of touch". I seem to recall a time when billboard was pretty much cutting edge..not status quo.

But then we have THIS....

TOP ROCK SONG
ROLLING IN THE DEEP - ADELE, SOMEONE LIKE YOU - ADELE, PARADISE - COLDPLAY, PUMPED UP KICKS - FOSTER THE PEOPLE, WALK - FOO FIGHTERS

Adele? How? To quote Ricky Ricardo "Please 'splain this to me, Lucy." How does an artist who's all over the top 100, top 200, hot 100, pop, female, etc. somehow get into the top rock song category? Or even....

TOP ALTERNATIVE SONG
ROLLING IN THE DEEP-ADELE, SAIL - AWOLNATION, PARADISE - COLDPLAY, PUMPED UP KICKS - FOSTER THE PEOPLE, THE CAVE - MUMFORD & SONS

....I'm confused. Is there a secret reorganization of the genres going on? Billboard has a hard rock category. Why aren't they included? Are they afraid to scare someone? Are they fearful of some higher up who should be close to retirement could be saying, "That's music? Get that crap off of my list". Well, Skrilex was nominated for top dance album, and as my 20 year old daughter says, Dubstep sounds like to robots having sex. So, that's okay..but apparently anything with heavy guitar or drums is a no-no

Even the Grammy awards just dissed the hell out of rock altogether by combining the rock categories:

Past:
Best Female Rock Vocal Performance
Best Male Rock Vocal Performance
Best Rock Solo Vocal Performance
Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal
Best Rock Instrumental Performance
Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance, Vocal or Instrumental
Best Hard Rock Performance
Best Metal Performance

Present:
Best Rock Performance
Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance
Best Rock Song
Best Rock Album

This is just an example of the industry cold-shoulder rock seems to be getting.

 

[Jacko]

The Billboard thing that you cited is interesting. A few years ago, Billboard stopped publicly publishing its active rock and mainstream rock charts, and instead began publishing an overall "rock" chart, which encompasses alternative, AAA, active, and AOR stations. The largest proportion of "rock" stations comes from alternative, so it's no surprise that the nominees are virtually the same among the categories. The "rock" and alternative charts are pretty similar as well, not to mention if you were to blend together the active rock and AAA subgenre charts, you'd basically get the alternative chart.

Being disenfranchised with rock music seems to be commonplace nowadays. Growing up through my teenage years in the 90s in Rhode Island, there was a variety of rock options: we had AOR 94HJY, modern rock 95.5 WBRU, classic rock 103.7 WRX, and for a time, alternative 99.7 The Edge--all unique stations, but all had a piece of the market. We were also able to pick up out of town stations like 104.1 WBCN/Boston, 92.9 WBOS/Boston, and my favorite during the time, 107.3 WAAF/Worcester. The version of WAAF during the early-mid 90s had jocks with a lot of personality and a playlist that introduced me to a lot of heavier bands like Rage Against the Machine, White Zombie, Korn, Pantera, Corrosion of Conformity, Danzig and the like. Reflecting back on it, they did also play a lot of rock staples from Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, AC/DC, et. Al.; while incorporating a healthy dose of 90s alt/grunge that was popular at the time. Very smart programming, I must say (besides the one time I heard a dead segue from Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" into Down's "Stone the Crow.")

The truth is, rock formats have overall become quite stale, but that's because--in most cases--that's what the average listener wants. There are many rock stations that are currently jockless, or have significant periods of time without on-air jocks, but those stations seem to be performing well. On the flip side, programmers--or more likely, the suits working above the programmers--are putting their hands up and letting the stations go stale. Twenty years ago, many listeners enjoyed radio that took some chances, opened their eyes to new bands and new sounds. But the choices were more limited then. Now, the people that want something different have many avenues in which to find what's different.

One other thing, I've learned to never doubt anything that Neanderpaul says. He's a talented jock and programmer whom I've liked since his days at 'AAF and 'BCN, and is among the last of a dying breed of programmers still trying to do what's right for rock radio, as opposed to those "corporate suits" in San Antonio who strip away an individual station's personality only to replace it with an approved personality that is voicetracked from another market.

Jacko

 

[sdh483]

2. Bring back some of the hair bands that made music fun to listen to... Yes it was very glammy...but there is a reason they went Gold and Platinum.. they had the best ballads. Bands like Tesla,Poison,Firehouse,MotleyCrue,Kiss,Iron Maiden,Anthrax,Megadeth,Whitelion,Queensryche,... I can go on and on but PD's are afraid to play most of this type of music.

Kiss, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Megadeth and Queensryche might have been around during the 80s hairband era, but they are nothing like that god awful 80s pop metal crap we had to live through at that point. Those bands are actually heavy metal or hard rock, not fluff butt rock.

 

[RedWingCJS278]

I'm going to play the role of conspiracy theorist here, but I really do believe there's something to it: Electronic music is (successfully) being shoved down the throats of the masses, and it's not an accident. Nor is it an accident that 'macho,' 'politically incorrect' rock music has been frowned upon in the mainstream for about 20 years now (since the arrival of Grunge, a purposeful middle ground between the muscular rock of the past and the sissy, 'emo' rock that is prevalent today; and, no, I don't know what to make of all the 'nu-metal' and 'post-grunge' stuff, other than to say it is God awful.) All this dance music is hypnotic by its very nature, and those who are hypnotized are far easier to control and brainwash. Let's face it, most people are pretty stupid and sheep-like to begin with, so this isn't some science fiction nightmare I'm speaking of (though it is a nightmare.) I think those of us with eyes to see are seeing all this being played out in this time. There's far more to this than just 'oh, that's what the kids today want to hear.' You guys on here who are program directors and such, you're probably not even in on what's really going on. You're middle management, and middle management in most any field are only told what their bosses want them to know and carry out. So, of course you're going to think I'm crazy offering this up. Think long and hard about this, though ...

 

[Neanderpaul]

There is something to what you're saying. Although not on any conspiracy front.

The true measure of great *mass-appeal* Rock music is, "Does it groove?" AC/DC grooves. Led Zeppelin grooves. Shinedown, does not groove. Five Finger Death Punch does not groove. That doesn't make them any better, or worse than AC/DC, or Led Zeppelin. But, it does limit their appeal.

If you're programming in a PPM market, mass-appeal is the single most important aspect of your product.

Statistically speaking (and I'm not sure I agree), *most* people listen to a lot of radio stations, in small doses. Therefore, you have to present a product that would be appealing to as many people as possible when they're making their choices. You need to be among the list. In order to do that, the masses must be more likely to be receptive to your music product.

Enter, the groove.

The greatest thing about those bands that have sustained over the years is; They "rock" enough for men, and women want to dance to them. Aerosmith, AC/DC, Guns n' Roses...all of them have a rhythmic quality to them. Even Journey. They wrote some rocking riffs, with big beats, and the kids went wild. Look at Metallica. Their early stuff is brutal, and awesome, and genre-defining.

But, until they release music with a groove on their 5th album, after having been together ten years in 1991, they weren't a household name.

This concept both brings us back to Nickelback (the Journey of this generation), and why you're hearing so much music with a rhythmic backbone (Sublime, Beastie Boys, Linkin Park) on Mainstream Rock radio.

It's all about the groove. Always has been.

Now, take a look at the Active Rock currents. How many of those songs lock in? Now, how many do you think work next to AC/DC and Led Zeppelin? See, when the music you place in sequence with brilliant songs from the library, is *so* lacking in comparison, it causes instant tune out, to the other guys, who are playing the hits.

In PPM, new music, is a potential tune out. *UNLESS* it's able to stand side-by-side with the greatest songs in Rock. That's an unreasonable expectation for a new band. But, unfortunately, it is the arena they now have to exist in. Not a fun prospect. It sets the bar extremely high. And eventually, someone will figure it out. You gotta have great songs that move people. Both figuratively & literally.

Then...and this is where *we* come in...You gotta deliver it to those who are listening, with conviction and credibility.

That's a whole other rant.

Enjoy the day.

 

[thelegacy]

RockNuts! mentioned his station being Album Rock. There is a real difference between "Classic Rock" or should I call them "Classic Hits" stations and Album Rock, Progressive Rock, AOR stations. The Legacy (See signature below) I feel is what stations should be going back to and that is Album Rock. throw away the "charts" Billboard, Rolling Stone magazine (its not the same anymore), and other dribble. Lets get back to the basics of Rock and this may require teaching our young what Real Rock was. It wasn't a bunch of synthesizer and fake drums but real instruments (The Old Rush is an example, Electric Light Orchestra) and many more. The RIAA has worked very hard to kill UK artists in the USA. Why? because their sheer talent walks over 90% of American artists Today. Hell even Rush was one of the best hardcore Rock bands of the 70s and yet they were from Canada. It was their goal to dumb down america's youth to a point where an old man carrying a toy synthesizer to the stage of America's Got Talent and rapping "what cha gonna do" is considered talent in America. I for one am damn sick of it all and the music industry hollers fowl play to "piracy" its the Adults who pay the bills and who go to concerts, some paying up to 7K for a real good sounding audio/video system (this kids have no idea what audiophile means).

They all need a lesson in True Album Rock such as that played on The Legacy. No I'm not owned by a corporation, but then again I can play what the hell I want and damn proud of that.