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What Can Save KABC?

Perhaps...just maybe...if the geniuses that program these radio stations started thinking outside the transistor radio "box" and started thinking like an IPOD they could realize that to WIN you must be COMPELLING AND ENTERTAINING. We can split hairs for a hundred years over what will work on this signal or that but the bottom line is IF IT ISN'T BETTER THAN WHAT I CAN FIND ON SATELLITE, MY IPOD, ITUNES, BROADBAND or TV (I know, YUCK) then it's not going to do anything...a n y t h i n g!

It's kind of like when music died on AM and all of the geniuses stayed with dead formats like "pop-adult" and variations of MOR and AC until they drove it into the ground. I don't know exactly what the answer is but it will probably involve going back to ENTERTAINING AND COMPELLING PERSONALITY ORIENTED radio in one form or another.
 
Drucifer said:
Perhaps...just maybe...if the geniuses that program these radio stations started thinking outside the transistor radio "box" and started thinking like an IPOD they could realize that to WIN you must be COMPELLING AND ENTERTAINING.

What's "compelling and entertaining" about an iPod? Mine just sits there until I make it do something. If it could program itself and maybe tell me what I'm listening to, that might be something. But right now, the radio does a better job. It's nice to throw around words like "compelling and entertaining," but I'd really prefer some specifics.
 
What's "compelling and entertaining" about an iPod? Mine just sits there until I make it do something. If it could program itself and maybe tell me what I'm listening to, that might be something. But right now, the radio does a better job. It's nice to throw around words like "compelling and entertaining," but I'd really prefer some specifics.

I'm sorry, are you hiring? If not and you want specifics, why don't you walk the market and ask those who AREN'T listening. I am not a typical listener but can tell you that I would rather watch blogtv on my lap-top than listen to talk radio. The last compelling thing on AM was Neil Rogers on WQAM in Miami (RIP). As for the L.A. market, I haven't heard ANYTHING that makes me excited about tuning in so I'm tuning out.
 
Move it to 95.5 FM and reshuffle the line-up to attract a younger demo, starting with Mark & Brian in the morning. Hannity could probably move to the FM. Cumulus may have some great middle-market hosts they could move to LA, I don't know, but some new talent to create a new buzz may be the only hope.
 
One more thought, you said "if it could program itself and maybe tell me what I'm listening to, that might be something. But right now, the radio does a better job."

Really?

Have you looked at the cume's today compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago?? Radio has been TELLING people what to listen to for years. In reality, how do you think that's working out?
 
Drucifer said:
Have you looked at the cume's today compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago?? Radio has been TELLING people what to listen to for years. In reality, how do you think that's working out?

Considering the number of choices available now vs 20 years ago, I'd say it's doing very well.
 
TheBigA said:
Drucifer said:
Have you looked at the cume's today compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago?? Radio has been TELLING people what to listen to for years. In reality, how do you think that's working out?

Considering the number of choices available now vs 20 years ago, I'd say it's doing very well.

I am sure some AM program directors said the same thing when the people woke up and discovered FM. Look, we are splitting hairs here but the reality is that business as usual isn't going to cut it. I assume we agree on that. Radio faces some daunting challenges, not if it is to remain competitive but to remain viable. Seriously. Music has been the centerpiece of radio broadcasting forever. It then morphed into many different formats, talk, news, sports and variations of that have made winning even a miniscule piece of the pie acceptable.

My point is that radio is losing and in some cases has lost it's compelling edge, it no longer has the advantage of being the only "in car" or "personal media device." It's very existence and ability to morph into the next generation of programming is coming...I hope but so far, I'm not hearing it.
 
Drucifer said:
My point is that radio is losing and in some cases has lost it's compelling edge, it no longer has the advantage of being the only "in car" or "personal media device." It's very existence and ability to morph into the next generation of programming is coming...I hope but so far, I'm not hearing it.

I view things differently. I believe the audience has splintered into many many smaller groups, making traditional methods of measurement, like cume, obsolete. The word "compelling" has infinite meanings depending on the specific individuals we're talking about. So what's compelling to you is probably not compelling to, on average, 92% of the other people in your listening area. So this idea of radio magically "morphing" into something "compelling" is kind of silly. Radio will continue to do what it does, aiming at the largest of the small groups available. If you're not in any of those larger small groups, then you'll chase after something more personalized, like the aforementioned iPod. In your case, you've said you've tuned out. So you're not counted any more. And if something "compelling" comes along, you'll miss it because your attention is elsewhere. That's the reality of the situation. Creating something new and compelling is unlikely to have much impact because attention spans are shorter, and few people actually SEEK OUT or SCAN radio dials as they once did. They have their favorites lists, and they continue to frequent them, while tuning out all the clutter.

I'm constantly amazed at people who complain about "limited play lists" or "playing the same songs over and over." I ask them if they've ever tried a different station, maybe one with a different format. They say no. So it decomes a self-defining circumstance, where a station plays the same songs, and yet they keep tuning in to the same station. If you've heard every song on the classic rock station, try listening to country for a week. I promise you'[ll hear lots of songs and artists you never heard before. We control our media, not the other way around. If people truely want something different, it's out there. But it won't be on the favorites list or among the presets on the radio. But that takes time, has an element of risk, and challenges our sense of what we really want. Do we really want something different, or something similar.

Meanwhile, AM radio is still in the last century. If you're waiting for something compelling to come along on AM, my guess is you'll be waiting a very long time. There's not much money there, the audience is older, more stuck in its ways, less attractive to advertisers, and there's probably only a couple AM stations per market worth a damn. That's not going to change.
 
Drucifer said:
Have you looked at the cume's today compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago?? Radio has been TELLING people what to listen to for years. In reality, how do you think that's working out?

Yes, radio cumes nearly the same percentage of the population it did 20, 30, 40 years ago.
 
AM FM listener said:
Move it to 95.5 FM and reshuffle the line-up to attract a younger demo, starting with Mark & Brian in the morning. Hannity could probably move to the FM. Cumulus may have some great middle-market hosts they could move to LA, I don't know, but some new talent to create a new buzz may be the only hope.

The problem is that the FM is cash flowing significantly, so there is no real reason to change it right affter putting together a leveraged deal. The AM can't compete due to signal, so it may be that they have to look for options on the AM that don't depend on competing with stations with bigger signals.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Drucifer said:
Have you looked at the cume's today compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago?? Radio has been TELLING people what to listen to for years. In reality, how do you think that's working out?

Yes, radio cumes nearly the same percentage of the population it did 20, 30, 40 years ago.

And that same percentage is of a larger population...so the raw numbers of radio listeners have grown.
 
You make a lot of assumptions and direct them at me. You have personalized my observations but they are simply observations. I don't have the magic answer and you certainly don't either.

I believe the audience has splintered into many many smaller groups, making traditional methods of measurement, like cume, obsolete.

How, then, are you going to measure the shrinking audience. It may be obsolete but advertisers are going to want some evidence of where their money is going. When you are selling air you need a measurement.

So what's compelling to you is probably not compelling to, on average, 92% of the other people in your listening area.

What is compelling then? What are people tuning in on Satellite, IPOD's and laptops that radio is NOT doing?

Creating something new and compelling is unlikely to have much impact because attention spans are shorter, and few people actually SEEK OUT or SCAN radio dials as they once did.



If you think this industry will survive, as is, offering NOTHING new, you are badly mistaken.

I'm constantly amazed at people who complain about "limited play lists" or "playing the same songs over and over." I ask them if they've ever tried a different station, maybe one with a different format. They say no. So it decomes a self-defining circumstance, where a station plays the same songs, and yet they keep tuning in to the same station. If you've heard every song on the classic rock station, try listening to country for a week. I promise you'[ll hear lots of songs and artists you never heard before. We control our media, not the other way around. If people truely want something different, it's out there. But it won't be on the favorites list or among the presets on the radio. But that takes time, has an element of risk, and challenges our sense of what we really want. Do we really want something different, or something similar.

I AGREE!

Radio MUST morph into something besides the playlists and clocks of yesterday. You admitted that attention spans are shorter but I would counter that drive times are massively longer in a lot of places (Houston, L.A., Dallas, East Coast) and I do think people will scan the dial listening for something, anything that grabs them.
 
Drucifer said:
Radio MUST morph into something besides the playlists and clocks of yesterday. You admitted that attention spans are shorter but I would counter that drive times are massively longer in a lot of places (Houston, L.A., Dallas, East Coast) and I do think people will scan the dial listening for something, anything that grabs them.

This is an example of the incorrect assumptions you criticize.

Only about a third or less of radio listening is in the car. The length of commute times is an average, with many people living close to their job and others choosing not to. We will see what commute times are in the new Census, but I don't think there will be a change that is significant to the radio industry.

Of course, people scan the dial on occasion if their favorite station is in commercials, gets to chatty, or plays a bad song. They won't stop for an unfamiliar song on another station.
 
Drucifer said:
Radio MUST morph into something besides the playlists and clocks of yesterday. You admitted that attention spans are shorter but I would counter that drive times are massively longer in a lot of places (Houston, L.A., Dallas, East Coast) and I do think people will scan the dial listening for something, anything that grabs them.

This is an example of the incorrect assumptions you criticize.

Only about a third or less of radio listening is in the car. The length of commute times is an average, with many people living close to their job and others choosing not to. We will see what commute times are in the new Census, but I don't think there will be a change that is significant to the radio industry.

Of course, some people scan the dial on occasion if their favorite station is in commercials, gets to chatty, or plays a bad song. They won't stop for an unfamiliar song on another station.
 
Well, it seems you all have all the answers to save KABC and seeing that I really don't give a damn, I'm checking out of this thread. Interesting conversation though.
 
Drucifer said:
It's kind of like when music died on AM and all of the geniuses stayed with dead formats like "pop-adult" and variations of MOR and AC until they drove it into the ground.

Music did not "die" on AM. It faded away, generally due to the ageing of the folks who grew up tolerating the sound of an AM station. FM may have barely had 15% to 20% of the audience in 1970, but it took almost a decade to get that number up to 50%.

I've never heard of a format called "pop-adult" so I can't address that one (and, anyway, you said that since you were not winning us over with your genius, you were taking your ball and bat and going home). But MOR, like a number of other formats, was simply a mainstay format of an era, just as Beautiful Music was a mainstay of the 70's. AC, on the other hand, is a viable format today, irrespective of the delivery channel. Nobody drove AM into the ground; FM simply provided a better listening experience.

I don't know exactly what the answer is but it will probably involve going back to ENTERTAINING AND COMPELLING PERSONALITY ORIENTED radio in one form or another.

Well, entertaining in the 60's was Edd Byrnes ("Kookie") in 77 Sunset Strip. Today it is Snooki on Jersey Shore. If there is some kind of undiscovered "personality oriented" radio it's not coming from the kind of banter that typified early Top 40 and which most listeners under 50 have very low tolerance for.
 
Drucifer said:
You make a lot of assumptions and direct them at me.

You're overly sensitive. I just stated my views on the subject.

Drucifer said:
When you are selling air you need a measurement.

The measurement radio should be giving is ROI: Return on investment. Just selling reach isn't enough any more. Radio salesmen need to connect the dots between advertising and sales.

Drucifer said:
What is compelling then? What are people tuning in on Satellite, IPOD's and laptops that radio is NOT doing?

There isn't anything "compelling" on any of those devices. Except that they can be personalized. OTA radio can't be personalized. But there's nothing unique or compelling about Pandora or satellite, and I think in the long term, people will realize that.
 
DavidEduardo said:
AM FM listener said:
Move it to 95.5 FM and reshuffle the line-up to attract a younger demo, starting with Mark & Brian in the morning. Hannity could probably move to the FM. Cumulus may have some great middle-market hosts they could move to LA, I don't know, but some new talent to create a new buzz may be the only hope.

The problem is that the FM is cash flowing significantly, so there is no real reason to change it right affter putting together a leveraged deal. The AM can't compete due to signal, so it may be that they have to look for options on the AM that don't depend on competing with stations with bigger signals.

I have always understood KLOS to have very good ratings during Mark & Brian and then mediocre ratings after that. So, if they kept M&B in the mornings and revamped the rest of the day's programming -- i.e., talk -- they could continue to see today's cash flow and perhaps improve upon it in the future.

I say sell KABC to help pay down the extra debt, hold onto KLOS, and flip it to talk. Given our demographic trends, will there continue to be room for two Classic Rock stations in LA?
 
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