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What Can Save KABC?

michael hagerty said:
David: Pop/Adult was Radio & Records' term for Adult Contemporary for a few years in the 70s and 80s.

Now that's embarassing. The term was either so generic or so forgettable that I don't recall ever hearing it!

I actually collected R&R, Hamilton, Gavin and others (I never found FMQB to be collectable, though) and was doing various forms of "pop AC" in both decades. This is probably a lesson to me that terms we think mean something to our listeners may not mean anything... in this case, I was an "R&R Listener."

I never liked their "CHR" creation, either.
 
If you don't have a clear channel station (the signal, not the company) on AM, you really don't have much of a prayer against the FM's anymore. KFI should continue to do well for a while and KNX may hang in there, too, because they have the signals.

If I were running a big radio company, I would gradually sell all of my AMs that weren't clear channels and get out of the AM radio business. On the other hand, NEW radio entrepreneurs, who can only afford to buy one AM station at a time, may be the perfect types of people to revamp the AM band with compelling programming.
 
AM FM listener said:
NEW radio entrepreneurs, who can only afford to buy one AM station at a time, may be the perfect types of people to revamp the AM band with compelling programming.

They will lose their shirts. Putting compelling programming on AM will not bring people back. Just as urban renewal didn't fix the cities devastated by the 60s riots.
 
TheBigA said:
AM FM listener said:
NEW radio entrepreneurs, who can only afford to buy one AM station at a time, may be the perfect types of people to revamp the AM band with compelling programming.

They will lose their shirts. Putting compelling programming on AM will not bring people back. Just as urban renewal didn't fix the cities devastated by the 60s riots.

It seems to me that if the price of an AM station got low enough, someone would buy it and be able to make money from it. That is the capitalistic way. Price is the ultimate equalizer and I gotta figure prices for AM stations are falling.
 
TheBigA said:
AM FM listener said:
NEW radio entrepreneurs, who can only afford to buy one AM station at a time, may be the perfect types of people to revamp the AM band with compelling programming.

They will lose their shirts. Putting compelling programming on AM will not bring people back. Just as urban renewal didn't fix the cities devastated by the 60s riots.

Oh really? Tell that to news/sports/talkers WIOD and WQAM in Miami when they had Neil Rogers, Rick & Suds and Randi Rhodes. Of course, there's L.A. and then there is the rest of the country so maybe it's a fluke!
 
AM FM listener said:
It seems to me that if the price of an AM station got low enough, someone would buy it and be able to make money from it. That is the capitalistic way. Price is the ultimate equalizer and I gotta figure prices for AM stations are falling.

Through the floor. But the people who buy them do brokered religion or infomercials. People who buy at fire sales don't spend money on rebuilding.


Drucifer said:
Oh really? Tell that to news/sports/talkers WIOD and WQAM in Miami when they had Neil Rogers, Rick & Suds and Randi Rhodes. Of course, there's L.A. and then there is the rest of the country so maybe it's a fluke!

We're not talking about the old days. We're talking about now. Who has taken a 5K AM from a 1 share to a 3 in the last two years? Anyone?
 
We're not talking about the old days.

You're right, we're not. We're talking 2 -3 years ago in Neil's case.
 
Drucifer said:
We're not talking about the old days.

You're right, we're not. We're talking 2 -3 years ago in Neil's case.

He had been a Miami staple for 30 years. How is that something new and compelling?

I can put Howard Stern on an AM in NYC and get great ratings. But we're talking about starting from scratch.

Tell me someone who launched a new host on a 5K AM and got great ratings.
 
TheBigA said:
Drucifer said:
We're not talking about the old days.

You're right, we're not. We're talking 2 -3 years ago in Neil's case.

He had been a Miami staple for 30 years. How is that something new and compelling?

I can put Howard Stern on an AM in NYC and get great ratings. But we're talking about starting from scratch.

Tell me someone who launched a new host on a 5K AM and got great ratings.

I'm sure you didn't mean this but you are making my argument. I never said it had to be new, I said it had to be compelling. You admonished me not to throw words like that around. Are you telling me that there is NO ONE in the L.A. market who could bring personality and ratings to KABC? I find that hard to believe. Personality and talent driven radio does not have to be locked into FM. Is Stern the end of the line of compelling talkers? Was Neil Rogers the end of compelling talk? I don't think so. I don't have the particulars but it's certainly worthy of thought and discussion as opposed to selling off the AM's or letting them go dark.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KABC&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
 
Drucifer said:
Are you telling me that there is NO ONE in the L.A. market who could bring personality and ratings to KABC?

Sure. Tell Lew Dickey to go to Rush Limbaugh and offer him twice as much money to work for him. Great idea.

They hired Frosty, Heidi and Frank after KLSX flipped. What did that do for KABC?
 
Neil Rogers was tremendous. He was a reason for Miami listeners not to leave WIOD for FM and other options. But that's not the same as walking into a basket case like KABC and getting the audience to come back.
 
AM FM listener said:
If I were running a big radio company, I would gradually sell all of my AMs that weren't clear channels and get out of the AM radio business.

It's not necessary to have a clear channel, particularly since there are only 25 of the old 1-A's and about 40 or 50 really really good 1-B's or equivalents, like KNBR, KOA, WGY, KNX.

KLAC with 5 kw on the beautiful 570 frequency covers nearly an identical population in its LA metro 5 mV/M as KNX on the inferior 1070. There are quite a few stations like 560 in Denver and Chicago, 610 and 560 in SF, 600 in San Diego, 610 in Miami that are not clears but which cover very very well and are fully competitive.

And technically, 1020, 1110, 870, 710, 1540 and 1580 in LA are clears, too... but all are either lower night power operations or highly directional.

The bigger issue is that in the Top 100 markets, there are fewer than 200 viable AM signals (cover the market day and night). That means in most markets, there are not enough signals to really create traffic on AM.
 
michael hagerty said:
Neil Rogers was tremendous. He was a reason for Miami listeners not to leave WIOD for FM and other options. But that's not the same as walking into a basket case like KABC and getting the audience to come back.

Remember that Neil was on WQAM, the Beasley station, for the last 12 years of his career. He was on WIOD for 7 or 8 years prior, having spent time at Zeta, WINZ and WNWS before that.

What's significant about the WQAM show is that it was on a sports station, and the show had minimal sports content, if any. It was not even the classic "guy talk" on a sports station. Wherever Neil went, he was bigger than the station.

There are not many talents in radio like that. And none of those few is going to go to a station like KABC (by coincidence, Al Rantel, who was on KABC, was on WNWS in Miami at the same time as Neil)
 
My point is compelling radio is not dead. Finding compelling talent in a world of voice-tracking and liner card readers may be difficult but it's NOT impossible. While the odds are likely against KABC they are not impossible. If it can be done in Miami or Chicago then it can be done in Los Angeles. I am not suggesting it would be a cake walk just that it is possible.

By the way, I worked with Al Rantel, Neil, Randi Rhodes, Steve Kane and Rick and Suds (which was a morning team on in afternoon drive) and it was a BLAST! The Miami radio market responded very well to AM radio. The success at WIOD can be attributed to Gary Bruce (PD) who had a strong newsroom, the Miami Dolphins and a station pretty much "stream of consciousness" and "nonsense talk" that was entertaining as hell. That formula worked and they went out on a limb to create it. Their were those who said it wouldn't work BUT IT DID but unless someone steps up to create something COMPELLING, we may never know and KABC may end up with leased, dead programming.
 
Drucifer said:
My point is compelling radio is not dead. Finding compelling talent in a world of voice-tracking and liner card readers may be difficult but it's NOT impossible.

Yes we know. That's why 280 million people listen to OTA radio. As I've said a few times, the problem is defining "compelling," and find someone who can actually connect with a mass audience. The word "compelling" is thrown around a lot, but it doesn't mean squat unless you have a specific name attached to it who is alive, available, willing to work, reasonable, and still relevant. Coming up with another 65 year old legend isn't going to be much better than running Imus or some other syndicated guy. It's easy to make it someone else's problem. It's a lot harder when it's YOUR problem, and you have to solve it, given all the realities of declining budgets and short attention spans. Put your butt and your money on the line and let's see what you do.
 
Yes we know. That's why 280 million people listen to OTA radio. As I've said a few times, the problem is defining "compelling," and find someone who can actually connect with a mass audience. The word "compelling" is thrown around a lot, but it doesn't mean squat unless you have a specific name attached to it who is alive, available, willing to work, reasonable, and still relevant. Coming up with another 65 year old legend isn't going to be much better than running Imus or some other syndicated guy. It's easy to make it someone else's problem. It's a lot harder when it's YOUR problem, and you have to solve it, given all the realities of declining budgets and short attention spans. Put your butt and your money on the line and let's see what you do.

I have told you what I would do, ad-nauseam, you offer nothing to the conversation other than insisting why my ideas won't work. Are you hiring? Are you looking for a blueprint? PAY FOR IT! I have already offered examples, although broadly painted, of why your presumptions are just that, presumptuous, now go beat up someone else because your take on AM radio sounds strangely like some guy who has a AM tied around his ankle who HATES it and wishes daddy would come and take it away.
 
Drucifer said:
I have told you what I would do, ad-nauseam, you offer nothing to the conversation other than insisting why my ideas won't work.

I haven't seen a single usable solution. You want someone compelling, like Neil Rogers. Hooray. They'd love to have him back in Miami, but he's dead.

"Broadly painted" is useless. Like saying "live and local." So what. SPECIFICS. WHO would you hire, HOW would you get people to listen, WHY would anyone care? You sound like Mickey Rooney saying "Let's do a show" without any plan to get anyone to listen. Just fixing programming won't bring back listeners who've moved on or passed away. Anyone can start a web site, anyone can do a show. It takes more than putting something compelling on the radio to get an audience that has already left, already removed the station from their presets, already tuned out, to come back. I already brought up Frosty. Didn't work. Rick Dees didn't help Movin.' Do you think Tom Leykis would make a difference? If you do, you haven't mentioned him. At least Tom is under 60. But so is Frosty. The reality in fixing radio stations can be summed up this way: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. That will be the challenge to anyone who thinks they have the answer to KABC's problem. The solution isn't just programming. That may have worked 40 years ago, but it won't work now. You need a lot more, and to invest that kind of money on a 5K AM station isn't an effective use of resources.
 
Can anyone tell me.....given the problems illustrated here with KABC, why is it worth saving?
 
If we listen to you BigA??, then just shut KABC down and forget it...cut your losses! I don't buy that but I am hardly going to provide you with specifics...PAY FOR THEM? If you have such a keen interest in KABC, then PAY SOMEONE TO SAVE IT or just shut it down.
 
Drucifer said:
I am hardly going to provide you with specifics...PAY FOR THEM? If you have such a keen interest in KABC, then PAY SOMEONE TO SAVE IT

I don't work for them or anyone connected with them. This is a discussion board. We discuss things here, not make business connections. I think I've been very specific and very direct in my opinions. You have not. Neither of us are getting paid. This is not about pointing the finger at someone else, and saying it's their problem. This is about you and I discussing real solutions to a real problem. That's what people do on discussion boards.

I don't think Citadel or Cumulus is going to shut the station down, but as I said, I doubt very much they'll be investing a lot of money in it either, mainly because the upside isn't very good. I expect they will continue with status quo for the foreseeable future.
 
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