If one were to program a full-service small town/county AM, what would you do with the processing to maximize the sound quality (voice, and music)???? Items, Brands, Mics and Mic Processors????? "Skip" Big fan of how Chief Engineer had WKWH (formerly in Shelbyville) sounding and old small town AM's like Obergainer's KJAS in Jackson/Cape, MO and the old WGBF-Evansville sound.... How much better is the Omnia 3.5AM over Invonics and others.. Which Mic Processors give you the best for less??? What mics give value and yet strong performance?? Taking notes... "Skip" ???
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What do you ENG's suggest for AM 'On-Air' Processing?
- Thread starter skippertthomas
- Start date
The 9100 sounds good on air, but expect your air monitor to sound a little harsh. If $ are no object, it's tough to beat the Omnia 5EX HD+AM for about $5700. It can sound brighter than the 9100 and it sounds heavenly on the air monitor. WSM uses one & even the Grand Ole Opry staff likes it.greenie said:
M
menotti1
Guest
for mics try the at3035(AUDIO technica)with the dbx 286a.a bargain at 199.99 each.great sound,although the old trusty sennheiser 421 is great,Every AM HAS USED THEM, at about 300.00,most am's used the symetrix 528e mic processor.i just installed the AT 3035 and DBX 286a mic processor,you won't believe how good it sounds.one engineer that heard it thought it was a tlm103 with a aircorp500ph.what a compliment.on air the 9100 is good,but i'll go with the omnia 5ex am if you have the bucks.It really did wonders for WSM's sound,much better clarity...in a AB comparison the Omnia would win hands down.you can bet their engineers did alot of comparing before they pulled the 9100...
What's your budget for on-air processing?
For AM mics, I really like the RE-20 or RE-27's. For AM, I've had good luck with the Aircorp processors. I don't like them for FM. They are not flexible enough for FM, to my ears anyway.
If you're going budget, get the CRL Amigo and put a texar or some other multiband unit out in front of it.
If you're going midline, totally get a 9100.
If you're going uptown, I'd still recommend a 9100 or the Omnia 5 that was mentioned earlier. Solid box.
For AM mics, I really like the RE-20 or RE-27's. For AM, I've had good luck with the Aircorp processors. I don't like them for FM. They are not flexible enough for FM, to my ears anyway.
If you're going budget, get the CRL Amigo and put a texar or some other multiband unit out in front of it.
If you're going midline, totally get a 9100.
If you're going uptown, I'd still recommend a 9100 or the Omnia 5 that was mentioned earlier. Solid box.
M
menotti1
Guest
the AM standard years ago was the sennheiser 421,while the FM standard was the re20.i just never could get use to the re20 even on my FM,actually used the 421's on it with aircorps,never a problem for me;i love the aircorps..But there are plenty of players today like Heil PR40,a very good mic.But the AT3035/DBX 286A combo will knock your socks off...
I have been relying on the design of my tube-type Van der Bijl modulator for some 18 years. It is difficult to achieve 100% because
it mixes audio and a small RF input to a single grid of a triode. The audio will begin to clip peaks but never is able cut off conduction.
I suppose if I cooled down the heater on the modulator 6SN7, it might be able to cut off conduction and achieve 100%.
It sounds just fine in the house, but listening at the fringes shows that there's still some gains to be made.
I don't have the budget for any of the processors being discussed.
However, Santa will be bringing an ART (Applied Research and Technology) Pro VLA compressor allegedly with up to 30 db of comp.
I read an awful lot of good things about it, and for $300, it may not be the greatest, but I'll be finding out soon how it sounds for AM.
My aircheck podcasts of AM 1620 W- nuthin - nuthin - nuthin so far have no compression except that from the modulator.
I can hardly wait to see if I'll be disappointed or happy.
I will be reviewing the results here and on my podcast page.
The most recent (#11) has some fun old spots and finally has the reverb level where I want it.
http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2007-12-15T12_31_50-08_00
it mixes audio and a small RF input to a single grid of a triode. The audio will begin to clip peaks but never is able cut off conduction.
I suppose if I cooled down the heater on the modulator 6SN7, it might be able to cut off conduction and achieve 100%.
It sounds just fine in the house, but listening at the fringes shows that there's still some gains to be made.
I don't have the budget for any of the processors being discussed.
However, Santa will be bringing an ART (Applied Research and Technology) Pro VLA compressor allegedly with up to 30 db of comp.
I read an awful lot of good things about it, and for $300, it may not be the greatest, but I'll be finding out soon how it sounds for AM.
My aircheck podcasts of AM 1620 W- nuthin - nuthin - nuthin so far have no compression except that from the modulator.
I can hardly wait to see if I'll be disappointed or happy.
I will be reviewing the results here and on my podcast page.
The most recent (#11) has some fun old spots and finally has the reverb level where I want it.
http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2007-12-15T12_31_50-08_00
CRL is currently selling off remaining stock of new Amigos at a discount, which makes the Amigo AM a fantastic bargain buy for C-Quam AM Stereo stations, or even mono AM stations who want to be the best-sounding on the dial, not necessarily the loudest.Sgeirk said:
Those who have compared both tell me the new Optimod-AM 9400 is superior to any of the Omnia AMs. It's more than just a stereo version of the 9200... it's a true step ahead, and perhaps the first digital AM processor which can truly compete with -- although maybe not exceed -- the 9100-B2.
This sounds like a crazy combo but we had a Harris MSP 90 triband (I belive it was for FM actually) processor at the studio and a 9200 at the transmitter. Together they made one hell of an on-air sound. I suppose it had a lot to do with settings, but I was very impressed.
I can vouch for the cheap DBX mic processors. For the money they are hard to beat. There seems to be quite a few good choices out there these days for mics. Usually I'd say try to find an old SM5 and that would be the closest to right a guy could ask for. I would have to think there's some pretty cool sounding mics out there these days so if a guy could try a few before he bought them it would be worth a look into different makes and models, etc.
I can vouch for the cheap DBX mic processors. For the money they are hard to beat. There seems to be quite a few good choices out there these days for mics. Usually I'd say try to find an old SM5 and that would be the closest to right a guy could ask for. I would have to think there's some pretty cool sounding mics out there these days so if a guy could try a few before he bought them it would be worth a look into different makes and models, etc.
K
kyscott
Guest
BobOnTheJob said:
Omnia all the way. I have an Omnia 3 on an AM client running a POTS codec for an STL and it sounds awesome. I'm trying to convince them to replace two Optimods with an Omnia 3.
M
menotti1
Guest
well, this station is not in NY,so i imagine budget is a huge concern. best bet is probably the crl or the omnia 3 am,depending on the allowed budget.PLUS DIGITAL AM IS TURNING OUT TO BE A BIG JOKE., so why have a processor for that.When i have a client wanting to upgrade,we start with a realistic budget,then try to build around that,with lots of product demo's.When Omnia had the red ball special on the 03t fm,that was by far the best deal going and a great sounding box..if i was doing AM talk, i would try to find a set of the old CBS units.pretty good stuff,audiomax and volumemax...Most AM's i hear today sound like crap with antiquated antenna systems,would not get close to passing a proof, or have gone silent......
Hey Fellas! Great feedback for me! I have been looking at a small AM that would be the only local programmed facility in a suburban small metro county and wondered what would be good for a 500 watt AM near the top of the (right side of the old analong) dial... Someone asked about budget... Economy to Midline... I am more impressed, daily with HEIL on mics... Joe Walsh is so right... Doc Heil near St.Louis gives you more for a 'buck'.... My dream chain (at this point) would be two mics in the control room (HEIL), going into a mic-processor (dbx or Symetrix, two of them)...Then into a affordable control board (any suggestions are welcomed)...Then into a reverb (Slight enhancement for music and 'old time' feel..Now WABC overkill).... Then into the host computer for streaming and out the 164kb stream to the tower....There, I am leaning on the Omnia 3 non HD box and out the nice transmitter, already in the rack... What do our pros think??? Oh, I love hearing old clean airchecks of 'LS on the CBS Labs stuff and 'CFL on the first generation DAP's....
"Skip" ;D
"Skip" ;D
M
menotti1
Guest
good mic and processor choice.tell us about the antenna system.How old is it?is it a unipole?i had a AM years ago with the unipole ,got great bandwidth and the station was as clean as fm mono.used a harris msp-100 processor.the dbx 286a will work fine,no need to spend 600.00 on a symetrix mic processor.Ihope your antenna is in A 1 condition,it will make the difference in your air sound..as far as mics i would get one heil and one sennheiser 421.that old 421 still sounds darn good..good luck.
I think the owner told me it's a Nautel and the antenna is diapole attached to the tower... I know the station has been there since the 50's... I am not sure if the grounding system has been redone.. I am in the mid-phase of making a proposal... Thanks on the advice.. You ENG's are great... 
M
menotti1
Guest
i think you mean unipole not dipole...how does it sound on the air now? nautel is a good xmtr.on the high end of the dial,is the tower about 150 ft? Just make sure the ENTIRE transmission system is solid.been awhile since i built mine from the ground up,then i migrated over to FM.
M
menotti1
Guest
may i guess?? CRL or Inovonics?.. key to processor setup is a great set of ears.most presets are not that great,but the ratio may be 50-50.Omnia seems to be better than others.But as we all know it's subjective.i prefer a more open sound,not real aggressive.Omnia has a warm comtemp preset on their site for the O6.Really sounds good on my station.i added just a tad more bass.But, this box will do whatever you want...i have tried different presets but i keep coming back to this one.
Ahh.. Who IS an engineer.
I love this. Is it the design guy, or the ( to use a term I define my self by ) an application engineer?
The words would seem mutually exclusive, but not at all, as field engineers well know.
When those of us in the field make the damn hairy beast behave, and MUST tell the design guys why, how, and where
changes must be made, is this not engineering?
Yet many practice engineering with no degree.
I see much brand loyalty, and surely all are doing their best to satisfy those who like the results.
I am very impressed with WSM here in Chicago, and WLS and WCFL back in the music days are what I strive for.
I'd like to keep my pt 15 digital at the source, for automation, but my best efforts at analog everywhere else.
I will not fault software OR hardware solutions.
Some of the best computer algorithms are so analog, they beg for a simple PID loop. (Proportional Integral Derivative)
An ANALOG cmputer, in other words. I have read that analog computers have found new applications in real-time processing.
I am hoping a budget compressor designed for the low-budget recording industry will be enough to make a worthwhile investment.
The ART pro ( I hate it when they throw that in) VLA, with a supposedly-soft-knee compression which has two separate channels with a
triode driver which can be cascaded with alternate attack/releases sounds like enough to fatten any AM.
The ART info claims opto-electronic compression surpasses VC ( Voltage control ) amplifiers used in many of the older hardware-based
units mentioned.
I chose based on this, as most of the sucessful and natural sounding expander schemes (way-way back) relied upon lamps/amplifier bias.
Compete for your own best, but don't just walk up and tell someone else doing their job that they're going about it the wrong way.
I love this. Is it the design guy, or the ( to use a term I define my self by ) an application engineer?
The words would seem mutually exclusive, but not at all, as field engineers well know.
When those of us in the field make the damn hairy beast behave, and MUST tell the design guys why, how, and where
changes must be made, is this not engineering?
Yet many practice engineering with no degree.
I see much brand loyalty, and surely all are doing their best to satisfy those who like the results.
I am very impressed with WSM here in Chicago, and WLS and WCFL back in the music days are what I strive for.
I'd like to keep my pt 15 digital at the source, for automation, but my best efforts at analog everywhere else.
I will not fault software OR hardware solutions.
Some of the best computer algorithms are so analog, they beg for a simple PID loop. (Proportional Integral Derivative)
An ANALOG cmputer, in other words. I have read that analog computers have found new applications in real-time processing.
I am hoping a budget compressor designed for the low-budget recording industry will be enough to make a worthwhile investment.
The ART pro ( I hate it when they throw that in) VLA, with a supposedly-soft-knee compression which has two separate channels with a
triode driver which can be cascaded with alternate attack/releases sounds like enough to fatten any AM.
The ART info claims opto-electronic compression surpasses VC ( Voltage control ) amplifiers used in many of the older hardware-based
units mentioned.
I chose based on this, as most of the sucessful and natural sounding expander schemes (way-way back) relied upon lamps/amplifier bias.
Compete for your own best, but don't just walk up and tell someone else doing their job that they're going about it the wrong way.
Some years ago, we had Chris Imlay, the S.B.E. Counsel look into the 'engineer' brouhaha, when it was being bandied about in both Tejas and California. His opinion at that time, relating to Georgia was - you may not hang a shingle nor may you represnt yourself as a 'Registered Professional Engineer' in the State of Georgia unless you are so licensed by the Board of Examiners of Engineers and Land Surveyors. As long as you lay off 'registered professional..' you can pretty much call yourself what you want.
Likewise, in Georgia, if you work for other than your regular employer - e.g. do contract work - you probably ought to have a Georgia Low Voltage Contractor's license. Of course, if you pull power to your equipment, you need an electrician's license, but most of us hire that out anyway.
The generic 'Engineer' term is applicable based on past use. (Otherwise, we'd need the Amalgamted Brotherhood of Choo - Choo Train Drivers)
Likewise, in Georgia, if you work for other than your regular employer - e.g. do contract work - you probably ought to have a Georgia Low Voltage Contractor's license. Of course, if you pull power to your equipment, you need an electrician's license, but most of us hire that out anyway.
The generic 'Engineer' term is applicable based on past use. (Otherwise, we'd need the Amalgamted Brotherhood of Choo - Choo Train Drivers)
K
kyscott
Guest
littlejohn said:
That word right there rules out most of the folks I have worked with in broadcasting.
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