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What do you ENG's suggest for AM 'On-Air' Processing?

Interesting that the assumption is that you need to be an ENGINEER to setup an audio processor.

Does being an Engineer give you a better ear? Im a production engineer myself, dynamics processing is my daily business...You won't see me pulling transmitters apart, but with compressors, limiters, and clippers I do relate.

Do I qualify to post?

My personal preference is with Orban. I like the sonic texture their agressive limiting gives, and I think they sound smoother, and more consistant when processed heavily. Don't get me wrong, I also love the Omnias clean open sound on formatts that need it. This is where I would take the stations format into consideration for a processor purchace. Because you prefer the Optimods sound on a certain station, doesn't mean it's the processor for all.
 
The year was 1989, and I was program director of a country station in the heartland of America. One of my first missions when I arrived was to get to know my chief angineer and convince him that I cared about how we sounded...and I *valued* his opinion. I also made my case for making our sound more dense, but not to the point of fatigue. Once he understood where I was coming from, he presented me with a key to the Optimod! I worked very hard, and successfully, to *never* betray his trust.

Between programming and air chain tweaks, the numbers doubled in a year. And I thanked my engineer as well as the air staff for it.

PaulyBoy, I'm no engineer, but I know what I want...and I seek out and work with the people with the specialized knowledge necessary to help me reach the end result desired. You, sir, are outta line...please, SIT DOWN...
 
To be honest I'd trust the ear of a production engineer that produces MUSIC over any of us normal broadcast engineers anyday. Most of the guys that are in that industry can HEAR the little suttle things most everyone else just passes over. That's why they do what they do.

I've also seen PDs that are MUCH better than the staff engineer and set all the processing in the building. The last place I was at my PD was the guy that tweeked up the processor so damn good it was amazing. He had an 8200 kicking complete ass. I might add we were one of the highest rated classic rock stations at the time in the country under his direction. Processing was only one part of the success but definately part of it.

Really when it comes down to it, those that are good with processing have to have two qualifications. The first is they have to be able to HEAR how to set the processor. Secondly they have to have enough tech sense to intitively set the box up or be able to READ enough to know how to set it. Patience helps a great deal when messing with processing. I for one have NEVER been one to just pick a preset and go with it. They are a start but not the final sound.

Having the invisable engineering tin badge or not has very little to do with success and qualifications with processing. Arguing that it has some merit isn't even valid.
 
OK... Love the 'Take it outside' for the non-on-topic debate of qualifications of levels... My next sub-question is: Which box gives you the opportunity to have a sound as close as the 'glory days' of 'LS/'CFL and that sound of the ol' CBS Lab and DAP processors??? Orban or Omnia??? ;D
 
Not that I can speak for all, but you should take a listen of WLNG's audio stream, which I believe is an off-air feed. From what I was last told, they are using an Optimod 8100 and some other "assorted goodies" to get that signature sound of Top 40 radio from the past. Sound complete with reverb and the up-suck (gateless) compression

I was kind of surprised to hear that they had an 8100.
 
By lack of any reference or response to the ART pro-VLA , I must presume its use has been limited in broadcast.

I will be adding this to my airchain in 2 days, and posted the last AM 1620 aircheck likely to be recorded with only the built-in
compression of the van der Bijl type modulator.

This aircheck has the opening theme from Journey to the Center of the Earth, with huge deep bass and hi-end too, yet is not
distorting nor creating significant IM distortion. The following song, Jack the Ripper by Link Wray, has always been tough to make behave
on AM, as it is SO harsh and loud. I would appreciate comments on the existing sound, plus what gains you may see as
possible with compression/limiting. Is this still way too "open sounding"?

http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2007-12-22T21_37_49-08_00
 
DON'T DO IT SKIP! Just kidding, my station is doing good, not a second thought yet. I am still working on the proc. myself. Got the mod up, still not enough though.

What about an Ahex compellor? Will that replace my old gates agc? I am also looking into an Omnia or Optimod. I saw an Optimod am on ebay the other day, but it is gone now! Hard to find those things used.

Merry Christmas and I am looking foward to that visit Skip.
 
Bill DeFelice said:
Not that I can speak for all, but you should take a listen of WLNG's audio stream, which I believe is an off-air feed. From what I was last told, they are using an Optimod 8100 and some other "assorted goodies" to get that signature sound of Top 40 radio from the past. Sound complete with reverb and the up-suck (gateless) compression

I was kind of surprised to hear that they had an 8100.
Click to expand...

Last time I saw it, LNG has a Compellor and Dominator at the studio and an Aphex 2020 at the transmitter. The 8100 is long gone.
 
wgliradio said:
Last time I saw it, LNG has a Compellor and Dominator at the studio and an Aphex 2020 at the transmitter. The 8100 is long gone.
Click to expand...

How long ago was that? I would have never thought a 2020, let alone an 8100.
 
WKMB sounds fabulous.. Please share what you have! Fish and I need coaching! He's an hour and thirty west of me with a 5kw at 1150... Omni-Directional.. I am looking at a non-da at a high end ... Working on how to get the $$ for license, build out small studio and a little operating captial.... Any advice there will be researched.. I have great a credit rating and a little debt from a divorce, but slightly more in my Vangard 500... Go at it....
 
Bill DeFelice said:
wgliradio said:
Last time I saw it, LNG has a Compellor and Dominator at the studio and an Aphex 2020 at the transmitter. The 8100 is long gone.
Click to expand...

How long ago was that? I would have never thought a 2020, let alone an 8100.
Click to expand...

When I was there, the FM was a prism with an 8100. The reverb was Orban. The left channel fed the FM the right the AM. The AM chain was all CRL... APP-400 / SEP-400B / PMC-450.

The 8100 that was at WLNG is in another station now, replaced by the 2020 and the other Aphex stuff at the studio. At some time, I think they had replaced the prism with the Behringer 4 band multicom (the same box that Jim Somich made the Banshee IV out of). It may have even been a Banshee, I only saw it for a few seconds 10 years ago... but it was THAT box in some form or another.

THAT may still be on the air with the Dominator and 2020... it is either the Banshee / Dominator / 2020 or Compellor / Dominator / 2020.

Speaking of the Banshee, I had one, but it was all screwed up. Would love to hear that or the Behringer stock at some point. I'm told Behringer signal processing peaked early on... all of my experience with Behringer has been after that fact as far as signal processing goes... and it's not that prettty.
 
skippertthomas said:
If one were to program a full-service small town/county AM, what would you do with the processing to maximize the sound quality (voice, and music)???? Items, Brands, Mics and Mic Processors????? "Skip" Big fan of how Chief Engineer had WKWH (formerly in Shelbyville) sounding and old small town AM's like Obergainer's KJAS in Jackson/Cape, MO and the old WGBF-Evansville sound.... How much better is the Omnia 3.5AM over Invonics and others.. Which Mic Processors give you the best for less??? What mics give value and yet strong performance?? Taking notes... "Skip" ???
Click to expand...
Skip, don't over think the technical on-air sound. Your audience doesn't care. You want to focus on being loud, listeneable and reliable. Eliminate the distractions and concentrate on your content. Remember what John Q Sheppler used to say.......

Best wishes.....
 
Skip,

As far as getting the money, some luck, a chance happening that an old school friend and a very nice guy, that beleived in me and supporting local people, were the heads of the bank. Also good credit helped and my (very smart) wife made it happen period!

Also the local revolving loan fund helped with the down payment. You have to have some money though. Even if you find a way to fund the 10 percent or whatever, it is a good thing we had some money put away to pay for the transfer, Atty and random things that come from every direction, like incorporating and transfer hassels of the utilities ect. We had to pay an extra $500 per month for the first 3 months for the power company to switch it over. So you need to plan for those things. Go for it!

As for processing, I have been REALLy over thinking it, trying to get that big, dense silky and LOUD sound, without mudding it up. I have tried several things and then wound up having the engineers come over and undo most of it and just make sure the mod is up. When I was doing all that and putting old crl boxes on, it seemed to sound ok, but when I tried to get the mod up it would clip. Southern Gospel is hard to get to sound good in my oppinion. Lots of mids. When I try to get some bottom in there, it is muddy and to much boom, if that makes sense.

Here is where I am now:

Not in front of it so not sure the exact agc unit, but it is an old gates I think. Then into the Texar Prism and a light touch on a BBE 882 (still not sure about that) it seems to add some tight bottom, then into the inovonics. I did have a crl preperation processor, but took it out, after the engineers said it was not doing much good and causing distortion. I just got a compellor and am going to put it up front.

Thanks for reading all this and sorry bad spelling ect, I rushed.
 
Thanks Jimmy...

I have a great credit rating and look to gather more than just the license transfer.. With the folks, I might be able to get an undersigner.. We still own some farm interest from way back at the end of WWII... Get the 50k for the sale, 30k for studio buildout and legal/transfer fees, and somewhere around 45k for operating capital.. I have liquid debt from the divorce at about 22k and about 25k in investments from the settlement....
My brother is a great idea guy, too.. I will keep at it... "Skip" in Evansville....
 
Just get an Optimod-AM 9100B and be done with it. Who knows, Orban might even still have a few left in stock. I know they still have a few new CRL Amigo AMs and FMs left, at a nice discount off list price. :)
 
I think the AMIGO will only process spanish music.Is that correct?hee hee Happy Holidays yall...
 
For reasons not germaine to this discussion, I wound up running a couple of racks, each of which had a half dozen FM generators (Radiometer Copenhagen) modulated with Amigos. We were running dry voice, and looking for high density without any noticeable distortion (which is fatigueing)since the TSL was on the order of four hours at a pop. They were impressive boxes, all the more for the price and small size. If I was the only guy on a particular format, I wouldn't worry greatly about using one as the processor.
 
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