What ever happened to Dan Ingram

[fang39]

I have a great deal of respect for Dan Ingram turning down the chump change offer that CBS-FM brought before him. I have no respect for the fulltime djs who are on CBS-FM now and accepting the AFTRA minimum. I, also, have no respect for all the djs who work for $15.00 an hour on various XM and Sirius music channels. When a dj whores himself, he is saying that $15.00 an hour is all he is worth. Overall, it brings down the salaries for all djs.

While I also applaud Dan Ingram's integrity by turning down the CBS-FM gig because of the scale wages, I'd like to know what planet YOU are broadcasting from, Radio Truth? In case you haven't noticed, since the corporates have taken over the airwaves, often operating mulitple stations within a single market, pay rates have gone down as opportunities have become fewer. Technology has also contributed to this as many companies will have their jocks VT on stations outside of their market.

I'd like to bring to your attention a recent job post on All Access. THIS NOT A JOKE!:

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Top 10 Market needs Morning Host!

We are currently looking for a multi-tasking morning host/genius! Our last guy retired at 49!!

Can you put in a 6 day-a-week morning show that is lively, funny, local, logical and RATINGS AMAZING??

You must also be a webmaster with sharp multi-tasking HTML skills. Also act as a Administrative Assistant.

Duties include producing, assigning and overseeing production and imaging for our FOUR station cluster! It's easy believe me!

Can you also act as a Sales Assistant – Complete and organize written presentations following the sales department guidelines. Complete sales promotional materials, presentations and poster layouts as directed, update website daily etc??

Write advertising orders and production orders for the Account Executives in order to make time deadlines.

Maintain sales reports, sales promotion reports and other materials for the sales department and Non Traditional Revenue Director.

Knowledge of popular culture, musical trends, and what interests men is a must!!!

New media content creation and distribution skills help complete the description of a qualified candidate. Salary is $22,000 a year on a five year agreement. Some insurance for you only & 1 week vacation!!!

You must be able to multi-task in a fast paced environment and be willing to work a split shift.

Requirements of the shift: Top and Bottom Hour Newscasts, providing hourly newscasts for our sister station, writing and recording stories and wraps for the next shift, and learning the two weekday morning anchor positions for fill-in.

You must be able to happily voice 4 stations outside the market. This takes only minutes!!

Experience producing “Rock” imaging particularly helpful.

Our air talent work multiple formats and stations, and may do anything from live shifts, voice tracking, production, newscasts and weather, and remotes.

If this sounds like something that you would be good at, please email your resume and mp3!

Market size and talent are not correlated!

E-mail resumes and demos to B** k***y

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Like I said, THIS IS NOT A JOKE! We're talking a station in a Top Ten Market asking for a ridiculous amount of work for what amounts to wages that are guaranteed to keep anyone from reaching the poverty line! Unfortunately, this is becoming the industry standard. The only way to reverse this trend is for the Government in get involved and repeal the laws that allow a company to own more than one Radio/Television station per listening market and create true competition in the marketplace.

 

[DawsButlerFan]

I my humble opinion, Dan Ingram was one of the greatest talents in the radio business EVER!! Always entertaining and professional and was the inspiration for may young "jocks"in get into radio. I am glad to see he will be inducted into the Museum of Radio Hall of Fame. Way to go Big Dan .

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

When a top ten market station pays $22000 for morning drive, it is time to find another vocation. There are still
some djs who make very good money because they do something unique that pulls ratings that cannot be replicated. I don't particularly like Howard Stern but, he has a niche that allows him to make big money. I believe that ownership consolidation is a factor in lower salaries but, a lack of unique radio talent is equally responsible. Again, when djs on XM and Sirius whore themselves for $15.00 an hour, it brings down all salaries.
Maybe they get $15.00 an hour because they lack talent and that is all they are worth. Companies like XM and Sirius figure that these djs with minimal talent are interchangeable parts. They figure they can always find some
untalented jock to work for $15.00 an hour. If you have a unique marketable talent, you will do much better but,
after 30 years of liner card reading djs, the chance of finding that unique talent is between slim and none.

 

[calstymes]

raykroc intoned:

I would like to know why there was friction between Dan Ingram and Harry Harrison. Their public personae are different. Ingram has had several marriages and a very liberal political perspective. Harry was married to the same woman for many years, had four children, and gave the public a perception of a man with strong family values. That could make him somewhat right-of-center. However, Barry Goldwater and John Kennedy were close friends, so it's not as if you have to be politically compatible to get along.

Also, Dan was irreverent while Harry was warm and fuzzy. Perhaps Ingram thought of Harrison as a wimp.

It had nothing to do with political persuasion or any issue of family values vs. irreverence. Public personae aside, which is nearly always different from the true nature of these individuals anyway when they are off the air (except in Bruce Morrow's case where what you observe on the air is exactly what you get in person), just suffice it to say that they were purely professional differences between them.

C'mon, somebody give us the E! True Hollywood Story.

Sorry, can't do that. But it's awfully amusing that you are wondering about it. People who listened to Dan carefully back in the WABC days might have gotten a clue that something was afoot.

 

[fang39]

When a top ten market station pays $22000 for morning drive, it is time to find another vocation. There are still
some djs who make very good money because they do something unique that pulls ratings that cannot be replicated. I don't particularly like Howard Stern but, he has a niche that allows him to make big money. I believe that ownership consolidation is a factor in lower salaries but, a lack of unique radio talent is equally responsible. Again, when djs on XM and Sirius whore themselves for $15.00 an hour, it brings down all salaries.
Maybe they get $15.00 an hour because they lack talent and that is all they are worth. Companies like XM and Sirius figure that these djs with minimal talent are interchangeable parts. They figure they can always find some
untalented jock to work for $15.00 an hour. If you have a unique marketable talent, you will do much better but,
after 30 years of liner card reading djs, the chance of finding that unique talent is between slim and none.

Again, because of consoildation, syndication and voice tracking, the opportunities afforded to experienced jocks are few and far between and don't pay very well. Unfortunately, this is a reality that you must face If you want to work in the industry. For every Howard Stern, there are 5,000 Howard "wanna-be's" and newcomers looking for a chance to make their mark in the business and they WILL work for $15 p/h or even less. I came across another ridiculous job opening on All Access this morning.

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Talented Beginner Wanted
Voice Tracker & Production. This is an entry-level position that requires you to live in Elko, Nevada, and do whatever we tell you to do for almost no money. It’s a good opportunity to learn radio in a competitive environment. As a further test of your commitment, we don’t plan to pay any moving expenses - you have to get here on your own. Send an mp3 and a resume to **********. Please don’t send us to your website, we won’t go there. Equal opportunity.

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These types of posts have become common on the job boards. You can almost hear the employers laughing at you because they know they'll find some poor schmuck who'll be more than willing to work for nothing just to be on the air. It's obnoxious!

 

[raykroc]

Cal, I appreciate your insight into the subject, and I certainly did not want to make it look like it was Harry, the good right-to-lifer vs. Dan, the bleeding heart liberal. I
spent most of the 70's in Florida and got only limited access to both. In fact, I preferred to listen to Imus in the Morning and then Dan in the afternoon when the signal would come in. For my money, they were far more entertaining than Harry Harrison, however, I always appreciated the warmth and sincerity that Harry exuded.
Was not Ron Lundy Dan's best friend? Did he not exude a lot of warmth more in the
Harry mode than the Dan mode?
When I lived in New England, circa February, 1967, the Daily News ran an article that
basically featured and contrasted Dan Ingram and Bruce Morrow. Dan was painted as the "left of Moscow" liberal, and Bruce was portrayed as the more conservative, capitalist. I believe that Dan was still on his first wife and had a boat-load of kids, and Brucie had his wife and two children. They certainly were portrayed as opposites.
All I am trying to understand is how these diverse personalities meshed or failed to mesh with one another. They were all icons in my young life.

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

In regard to shrinking radio dj salaries.....There is an old saying "Water seeks its own level". If radio station management perceives no difference between a dj and automation, then it means that the dj makes no difference and has no talent and should be paid accordingly. On the other hand, if a dj can make a ratings and
billing difference, he will also be paid accordingly. In an era where over-the-air radio is dieing a slow, ugly, fragmentation death, radio management is doing what television is doing. Both radio and tv are paying as little as possible and giving the audience as little as possible. That is why there are so many reality and quiz shows on television now. It is much cheaper to give some schmuck $1,000,000 for 12 weeks of acting like a fool on a reality show than paying 6 actors $1,000,000 per episode like the last year of Friends. Just remember that radio is in far worse shape than television. There will continue to be less and less radio on-the-air jobs and the salaries will continue to go down but, if you are the one dj who can do something unique and special that garners
audience, you still have the potential to make some money but, you better be really good.

 

[chacha]

In regard to shrinking radio dj salaries.....There is an old saying "Water seeks its own level". If radio station management perceives no difference between a dj and automation, then it means that the dj makes no difference and has no talent and should be paid accordingly. On the other hand, if a dj can make a ratings and
billing difference, he will also be paid accordingly. In an era where over-the-air radio is dieing a slow, ugly, fragmentation death, radio management is doing what television is doing. Both radio and tv are paying as little as possible and giving the audience as little as possible. That is why there are so many reality and quiz shows on television now. It is much cheaper to give some schmuck $1,000,000 for 12 weeks of acting like a fool on a reality show than paying 6 actors $1,000,000 per episode like the last year of Friends. Just remember that radio is in far worse shape than television. There will continue to be less and less radio on-the-air jobs and the salaries will continue to go down but, if you are the one dj who can do something unique and special that garners
audience, you still have the potential to make some money but, you better be really good.

Thats the old 1970's argument. And it's not wrong.
But its really more of a supply and demand situation.....there are less gigs, so they can pay less salary-wise because
more people want the gigs.

So if you're looking for the comfortable night show that pays a decent wage. There are far fewer places to look than
10 years ago. Somebody can voicetrack it for less (and thats your competition).

 

[van hespen]

Is that $22,000. for real in a top 10? I can't believe that. Maybe it was a typo and should have read $220,000? A five year deal seems like it would have to generate more than $22,000. Maybe not. Whatever the case, sounds like a bad situation.

 

[pdwips]

"When I lived in New England, circa February, 1967, the Daily News ran an article that
basically featured and contrasted Dan Ingram and Bruce Morrow... I believe that Dan was still on his first wife and had a boat-load of kids, and Brucie had his wife and two children."

FWIW, in 1967, Big Dan was "on" his second wife. His first wife was killed in a car crash in 1963, leaving him with five kids ranging in age from six-years to 18-months.

 

[calstymes]

raykroc observed:

I always appreciated the warmth and sincerity that Harry exuded.

Harry is known for that trademark warmth which he has the gift of being able to communicate to his listeners. He is a master at that.

Was not Ron Lundy Dan's best friend?

I don't know whether or not they were "best" friends but they were certainly very close to each other. They both worked at the same station in St. Louis before coming to New York and Dan is actually responsible for bringing Ron to WABC.

Did he not exude a lot of warmth more in the Harry mode than the Dan mode?

Each of these guys had their own manner and style on the air and each of them were different. Harry was more of a mom-and-pop kind of guy and was an expert at doing mornings. In the New York market, that meant providing consistency to his audience. Both Harry and Herb Oscar Anderson were the very best at talking to the "normal" folks at home in the morning to get them ready (and looking forward) to going to work and/or school each day.

Ron (because of the time of day he was most often on the radio which was after husbands were at work and the kiddies were in school) talked more to the wives of the household and kept the good cheer going that the morning guys had started for the day. Off air, Ron was a lot like he was on the radio, friendly, happy and personable and everybody with whom he came into contact enjoyed his candor and good nature.

As a contrast to everyone else, Dan appealed to the humor in all of us. He could find something funny in nearly everything and he loved to entertain his listeners using hidden messages, innuendo and inside humor. He can come up with a witticism faster than most of us can think. This is what made him come across as aloof, cocky and detached. It was an entirely different style of entertaining. In some ways, Dan was the original "shock jock" but his style and technique was such that he was very cerebral and he didn't have to force the humor, it just came naturally.

When I lived in New England, circa February, 1967, the Daily News ran an article that basically featured and contrasted Dan Ingram and Bruce Morrow. Dan was painted as the "left of Moscow" liberal, and Bruce was portrayed as the more conservative capitalist. I believe that Dan was still on his first wife and had a boat-load of kids, and Brucie had his wife and two children. They certainly were portrayed as opposites.

Interesting contrast! Honestly, I'd never heard about the political persuasions of any of these guys before and yes, I would consider them to be somewhat "opposite".

All I am trying to understand is how these diverse personalities meshed or failed to mesh with one another. They were all icons in my young life.

Yes, they were all icons in our young lives and they certainly appeared to be larger than life to us. There were interesting dynamics between each of them and each one brought a unique bit of personality to contribute to the whole of what became "musicradio" in the 1960s. And the whole was definitely greater than the sum of its parts. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever.

 

[fang39]

In regard to shrinking radio dj salaries.....There is an old saying "Water seeks its own level". If radio station management perceives no difference between a dj and automation, then it means that the dj makes no difference and has no talent and should be paid accordingly. On the other hand, if a dj can make a ratings and billing difference, he will also be paid accordingly. There will continue to be less and less radio on-the-air jobs and the salaries will continue to go down but, if you are the one dj who can do something unique and special that garners audience, you still have the potential to make some money but, you better be really good.

Oh really? Here in NYC, veteran jock Al Bandiero, who took WKTU from 15th to the top 3 in his time slot in the ratings, recently left the station after Clear (Cheap) Channel made it very clear that they would not pay him more money when his contract came up.

 

[fang39]

Is that $22,000. for real in a top 10? I can't believe that. Maybe it was a typo and should have read $220,000? A five year deal seems like it would have to generate more than $22,000. Maybe not. Whatever the case, sounds like a bad situation.

Not a typo, my friend. I checked it out. It was legit.

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

Al Bandiero could do what the CBS-FM jocks are doing and work for nothing.

 

[justareporter]

Obviously CCU is run by fools. talent always wins all ties.

 

[fang39]

Al Bandiero could do what the CBS-FM jocks are doing and work for nothing.

The point being, ratings and a following apparently mean very little to the corporate radio giants these days. It's all about squeezing every last penny from their holdings to inflate the bottom line for their shareholders. The profit potential from a well run, programmed, maintained and promoted station in this market is lost on them. It's a shame.

 

[MACK184]

While this thread is about the great Dan Ingraham, the issue of money is a concern. Citadel has a fixed figure in mind when they hire anyone not in sales, that figure is $18,000. While they certainly do pay more, they also pay less. Not too long ago on another industry website, KFI in L.A. was advertising for a morning show producer..they wanted to pay.....$8 an hour!! In L.A.!! You can't buy a coke for 8 bucks in L.A. Another comment made about jocks at XM & Sirius making $15 an hour. There are a lot of people out there on the air for a whole lot less than that these days. No matter what goes on in this industry, it has to be able to attract talented people in all it's departments. If people can't make a living wage and can do better as a truck driver, what will become of this industry. People like Brucie, Ingraham and Harrison didn't work for peanuts.

 

[chacha]

While this thread is about the great Dan Ingraham, the issue of money is a concern. Citadel has a fixed figure in mind when they hire anyone not in sales, that figure is $18,000. While they certainly do pay more, they also pay less. Not too long ago on another industry website, KFI in L.A. was advertising for a morning show producer..they wanted to pay.....$8 an hour!! In L.A.!! You can't buy a coke for 8 bucks in L.A. Another comment made about jocks at XM & Sirius making $15 an hour. There are a lot of people out there on the air for a whole lot less than that these days. No matter what goes on in this industry, it has to be able to attract talented people in all it's departments. If people can't make a living wage and can do better as a truck driver, what will become of this industry. People like Brucie, Ingraham and Harrison didn't work for peanuts.

The 18K you quote is not a national Citadel "fixed figure" thats silly. As for KFI, if that's true...and no one took the $8 an hour job, they would have raised the number (supply & demand) although I'm sure someone gladly accepted it.
There was a time when you'd do anything to get your foot in the door in radio!!
As for Brucie , Harry and Dan INGRAM...they were some of the best in the country at the time and were paid accordingly (for the times). I do believe that by around 1968 or so, Ingram was the highest paid air personality in America....(deservedly so).

 

[fang39]

While this thread is about the great Dan Ingraham, the issue of money is a concern. Citadel has a fixed figure in mind when they hire anyone not in sales, that figure is $18,000. While they certainly do pay more, they also pay less. Not too long ago on another industry website, KFI in L.A. was advertising for a morning show producer..they wanted to pay.....$8 an hour!! In L.A.!! You can't buy a coke for 8 bucks in L.A. Another comment made about jocks at XM & Sirius making $15 an hour. There are a lot of people out there on the air for a whole lot less than that these days. No matter what goes on in this industry, it has to be able to attract talented people in all it's departments. If people can't make a living wage and can do better as a truck driver, what will become of this industry. People like Brucie, Ingraham and Harrison didn't work for peanuts.

You can add the Hamptons on Long Island to that $8 an hour list. You've heard of The Hamptons, right? It's the summer playground of the rich and famous, where Howard Stern spent $1m for a summer rental and P-Diddy holds his annual "White Party." $8 is what a cluster of stations out there pays their part-time air personalities. Their full timers don't make that much more. Now, you might think being in market #260, one shouldn't expect to be paid more. But realize that the residents in this market boasts the highest per capita income in the entire country and that it's an offshoot of market #18 (Nassau/Suffolk), that's an awful paltry sum! Also consider that most of their air staff has to travel in excess of an hour to get there and gas ain't cheap!

 

[justareporter]

Fang39:

There is no quibble about radio salaries being idiotically small...we agree....but start a thread on it...don't muck up a perfectly good one about a class announcer.