What Format is Lubbock Most in Need of?

[bhenslee]

A big reason that KLUV and Jack are in the Top 5 is due to their appeal to both men and women. The same can't be said for KVIL...which targets women only. Dumping Jack does not guarantee that KVIL moves into the Top 5. Especially, when a Jack-type format immediately resurfaces across town. That's way too much risk with no guarantee of reward.

 

[DMcCloy]

You have 2 stations in the Top 5 in market #5...you'd be crazy to mess with that...you leave them alone. In today's environment you have to think more as a cluster, and less as individual stations. CBS/Dallas is doing that. Jack and KLUV make a great tandem. KLUV focuses mainly on the 70s with some 60s and little bit of 80s. Jack focuses on the 80s with a fair amount of 90s and a small amount of 70s. Sure, they share a few titles, but overall they're quite different.

As a 37 year-old male, both Jack and KLUV are in my top 5 Dallas FM presets...Clear Channel has the other 3 (KZPS, KEGL, KDGE). However, unlike the CC stations, Jack and KLUV are also appealing to women, as well.

Thank goodness someone has some sense.

NOW answer mine...why did cbs flip Jack in Chicago to go head to head with WLS-FM oldies vs oldies? if jack is so great?

I'm not familiar with the situation in Chicago, but looking at the ratings before WJMK was switched back in March, it's a no-brainer. http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/new...at-chicagos-march-radio-ratings-from-arbitron
Jack was doing 14th in Chicago. It wasn't working there. It is working in Dallas sitting at #5. You would be out of your mind to change formats when your station is finishing in the top 5 of the ratings in the 5th biggest market in America.

 

[cspotrun]

A big reason that KLUV and Jack are in the Top 5 is due to their appeal to both men and women. The same can't be said for KVIL...which targets women only. Dumping Jack does not guarantee that KVIL moves into the Top 5. Especially, when a Jack-type format immediately resurfaces across town. That's way too much risk with no guarantee of reward.

i never said dumping jack would guarantee KVIL would be #5...all i said was don't you think cbs would rather have a stronger KVIL (at say #5 or better) with younger female demos to sell than Jack, splitting Older demos with kluv who wouldn't?

hey, looking at the dallas landscape about all cbs has there is kluv and jack- 2 stations sharing roughly the same demos, the rest for them are further down the list, so i guess i can understand why they might be conservative when it comes to changing, although i disagree.

 

[cspotrun]

NOW answer mine...why did cbs flip Jack in Chicago to go head to head with WLS-FM oldies vs oldies? if jack is so great?
[/quote]

I'm not familiar with the situation in Chicago, but looking at the ratings before WJMK was switched back in March, it's a no-brainer. http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/new...at-chicagos-march-radio-ratings-from-arbitron
Jack was doing 14th in Chicago. It wasn't working there.

they LOST the 1st round or two with WLS-FM, splitting the Oldies audience with them was a STUPID move.

 

[bhenslee]

Would they rather have KVIL in the top 5 over Jack? I imagine so...they spend a lot more money and effort operating KVIL!


Looking at it on paper from the outside (assuming you're not in DFW), I do understand your point of view on this issue! However, if you spend some time listening to Jack and KLUV, it doesn't take long to understand what they're trying to accomplish...it really does make sense, when you hear it.

I mentioned earlier that both KLUV and Jack are in my top 5 Dallas FM presets. I'll be more specific...Jack is usually #2 or #3, behind KZPS, and occassionally KEGL. KLUV is a distant #5 right now and could easily slip to #6 or #7 (too old to get much TSL out of me). I don't have the data, but I speculate that a core Jack listener is at least 10 years younger than the core KLUV listener...possibly 15 years younger. Sure, both stations are selling 25-54...but they're each getting their ratings from different segments of that demo. Have you ever considered what a 25 year-old (or even a 35 year-old) has in common with a 54 year-old? Very little.

Lastly, I don't know squat about Chicago radio! Sorry.

 

[DMcCloy]

NOW answer mine...why did cbs flip Jack in Chicago to go head to head with WLS-FM oldies vs oldies? if jack is so great?

they LOST the 1st round or two with WLS-FM, splitting the Oldies audience with them was a STUPID move.

You asked why they switched Jack. I said it was because of low ratings. I'm not sure what you're wanting here.

but really, if you are cbs wouldn't you rather see KVIL as #5(with younger sellable demographics) than Jack, 3 tenths of a point away from your other upper end station KLUV?

You say that KVIL has a younger demo. How then would dropping Jack help KVIL?


Then you say

i never said dumping jack would guarantee KVIL would be #5...all i said was don't you think cbs would rather have a stronger KVIL (at say #5 or better) with younger female demos to sell than Jack, splitting Older demos with kluv who wouldn't?

If KVIL was to get to #5 it should be able to do it on its own merits and not from CBS dropping a different format.

 

[Kent]

they LOST the 1st round or two with WLS-FM, splitting the Oldies audience with them was a STUPID move.

While it looks that way, you're looking at 6+ numbers. WLS-FM beats K-Hits handily 6+, but K-Hits actually has slightly better numbers than WLS-FM in the coveted 25-54. A substantial portion of 94.7's audience is 55+, which is a demo advertisers won't buy. That's why True Oldies has been taken off the station outside of weekend specialty programming, and they've added shows like AT-40 The 70's.

 

[cspotrun]

NOW answer mine...why did cbs flip Jack in Chicago to go head to head with WLS-FM oldies vs oldies? if jack is so great?

they LOST the 1st round or two with WLS-FM, splitting the Oldies audience with them was a STUPID move.
[/quote]
You asked why they switched Jack. I said it was because of low ratings. I'm not sure what you're wanting here.
it makes sense Blow Up a station that is #14 like Jack, i just wanted to KNOW WHY they would choose to replace Jack and become the 2nd Oldies station in Chicago?

but really, if you are cbs wouldn't you rather see KVIL as #5(with younger sellable demographics) than Jack, 3 tenths of a point away from your other upper end station KLUV?

You say that KVIL has a younger demo. How then would dropping Jack help KVIL?
It wouldn't, it would most likely help KLUV. and you would have ONE stronger station VS 2 that do "Allright".
Then you say

i never said dumping jack would guarantee KVIL would be #5...all i said was don't you think cbs would rather have a stronger KVIL (at say #5 or better) with younger female demos to sell than Jack, splitting Older demos with kluv who wouldn't?

If KVIL was to get to #5 it should be able to do it on its own merits and not from CBS dropping a different format.
[/quote]
[EXACTLY![/i]i was just asking for your OPINION about whether kvil at #5 with Younger demo's would be more attractive to advertisers than Jack splitting 25-54's with kluv at 5th place or better.

 

[cspotrun]

they LOST the 1st round or two with WLS-FM, splitting the Oldies audience with them was a STUPID move.

While it looks that way, you're looking at 6+ numbers. WLS-FM beats K-Hits handily 6+, but K-Hits actually has slightly better numbers than WLS-FM in the coveted 25-54. A substantial portion of 94.7's audience is 55+, which is a demo advertisers won't buy. That's why True Oldies has been taken off the station outside of weekend specialty programming, and they've added shows like AT-40 The 70's.

just trying to understand the thinking behind this, but either way i WIN! maybe more markets will have more than one Oldies station,(after all PPM LOVES the format)& i LIKE the format, it means more job possibilities for me.

 

[LibertyNT]

ok then... explain to me CBS flipping Jack to go oldies head to head against WLS-FM in Chicago? so far that isn't working out well.

Thats easy,
WLS is not owned by CBS.
So obviously CBS wants a piece of that Oldies Pie.

KLUV and KJKK (100.3 Jack FM) Are Both Owned by CBS.

And the fact they are both highly rated proves they don't
necessarily compete with one another. In reality they serve two different demographics.

 

[Kent]

just trying to understand the thinking behind this, but either way i WIN! maybe more markets will have more than one Oldies station,(after all PPM LOVES the format)& i LIKE the format, it means more job possibilities for me.

I'm sure the thinking was that Jack was tapped out, and WLS-FM was going after too old of an audience. So, why not position yourself a little younger than 'LS-FM and get that lucrative audience you're getting in Dallas and Los Angeles? As for whether or not it was a smart move, time will tell. It gets about the same 25-54 numbers Jack got, but operating costs are a little higher. Of course, Jack had Steve Dahl's contract to deal with that artificially inflated its costs. K-Hits has a potential for growth that Jack really didn't, but we'll have to wait and see if it hits that potential.

As for the job possibilities, get your demo tape ready and start sending it out!

 

[cspotrun]

ok then... explain to me CBS flipping Jack to go oldies head to head against WLS-FM in Chicago? so far that isn't working out well.
[/quote]

Thats easy,
WLS is not owned by CBS.
So obviously CBS wants a piece of that Oldies Pie.

i WANT to keep hearing that across the Nation, "i want a piece of that OLDIES PIE" YES!its NOT the most sought after demographic(but it SHOULD be) 35+ are the people with the MONEY and i'm ALL in favor ot MORE stations playing the Classic Hits.

KLUV and KJKK (100.3 Jack FM) Are Both Owned by CBS.

my Only bitch with Jack is there are NO Air personalities-Live or tracked- and I'm an Air personality who wants to earn a paycheck, can't happen with the Jack's of the world.

And the fact they are both highly rated proves they don't
necessarily compete with one another. In reality they serve two different demographics.

i'm with ya i guess... but REALLY,
its the difference between a Chevy VS a GMC pick-up...ahhh, not much


[/quote]

 

[fredcantu]

Jack FM can be a highly successful personality format.
Check out the web site for the original Jack FM.
http://www.jackfm.com/

 

[DMcCloy]

its the difference between a Chevy VS a GMC pick-up...ahhh, not much
[/quote

But if they were two of your top selling cars would you discontinue one because it's too much like the other? NO. That's the reason why CBS keeps Jack and KLUV in Dallas. They both do well.

 

[cspotrun]

its the difference between a Chevy VS a GMC pick-up...ahhh, not much
[/quote

But if they were two of your top selling cars would you discontinue one because it's too much like the other? NO. That's the reason why CBS keeps Jack and KLUV in Dallas. They both do well.

ohh andDon't look now they did..
alot like a Chevy??GM discontinued Pontiac & Saturn, alot like a Dodge? Chrysler discontinued Plymouth, there wasn't much difference between most any Ford and a Mercury, i think Mercury is gone. don't tell me nobody was buying them, in this economy it cost too much to DUPLICATE efforts.
Dallas must be different, and i don't think you're going to start a trend, but lets just "Let It Be"... NOW playing on Pontiac & Plymouth...i mean Jack & KLUV.
hey, i don't have a dog in this fight, and i don't much really care, but you must be the DUDE who made this decision to keep defending it, lets see how long it plays out in Big D, and good luck.

 

[DMcCloy]

ohh andDon't look now they did..
alot like a Chevy??GM discontinued Pontiac & Saturn, alot like a Dodge? Chrysler discontinued Plymouth, there wasn't much difference between most any Ford and a Mercury, i think Mercury is gone. don't tell me nobody was buying them, in this economy it cost too much to DUPLICATE efforts.
Dallas must be different, and i don't think you're going to start a trend, but lets just "Let It Be"... NOW playing on Pontiac & Plymouth...i mean Jack & KLUV.
hey, i don't have a dog in this fight, and i don't much really care, but you must be the DUDE who made this decision to keep defending it, lets see how long it plays out in Big D, and good luck.

I live in Lubbock as the subject of this thread indicates, so obviously I don't have a dog in the fight either. You continue to defend your point, so why shouldn't I?

You can be the radio exec to drop a top 5 rated format in the largest market in Texas. Your career funeral.

 

[hayseed]

Hey you two!! Nobody cares. It's Lubbock.

 

[cspotrun]

I live in Lubbock as the subject of this thread indicates, so obviously I don't have a dog in the fight either. You continue to defend your point, so why shouldn't I?

You can be the radio exec to drop a top 5 rated format in the largest market in Texas. Your career funeral.
[/quote]
you wouldn't if you wanted or NEEDED younger demographics to sell, but for whatever reason they're happy with #5, so be it for NOW.

LUBBOCK! Ramar is advertising for someone for Radio, anybody got a handle on this?

 

[DMcCloy]

but for whatever reason they're happy with #5

They're happy because they're not one of the 53 stations in DFW rated less than #5

 

[cspotrun]

to the Original question...
Lubbock doesn't NEED any format. if you are creative and a good programmer or manager,YOU Create the need. IF you can do a format BETTER than someone else(who is not cutting it) GO For It! i will say those trying to knock off the #1 Country here, they keep trying, not sure its working for them-so we probably don't need another Country station... we're Maxed out with Hispanic stations, the ones out there are pulling 2 shares- so appearantly NO ONE is listening- 2 CHR's & an Rhythmic are battling for ANYONE 18-24 who hasn't discovered an I-Pod yet.. A/C is NOT catching on, 1 station bailed on it the other is pulling somewhere in the 2's.. news/talk is in its own realm and one is mid charting with males over 50 the other not doing as good, dispite having a weak FM simo. Rock, there is only one station getting audience, the other one is classic Rock and hasn't moved much from the mid-bottom for quite awhile. then there's Classic Hits 60's-70's one station here, by default they end up in the top 3 or 4. there's no one doing 70's 80's t-40 hits in the market. the stations doing their respective formats well with their Heritage are the ones that show well in book after book here, BECAUSE its been some time since there was ANYTHING N E W IN LUBBOCK if there was, it might shake up the market, whether it is something NEW or a better spin on something here already, it would have an impact for a short time, and may capture a large audience for the long run-IF done well.