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What has happened to KVIL?

I just saw the trends for KVIL in Allaccess.com and was shocked. Granted, it's been a while since I paid much attention as I live out of state, but KVIL had always been a major player not only in the DFW Metroplex, but in all of the country as a leading AC station. It seems as of late though that something has happened to take them where they are now.

Does anyone have any insight? It seems a shame to me that the polish has come off the star.
 
Gee what has changed. It just the same as it was in the Glory days. Liner cards carefully read that say Today's refreshing lite Rock followed by a 14 min spot set and Deliahla ;D
 
JockFan said:
I just saw the trends for KVIL in Allaccess.com and was shocked. Granted, it's been a while since I paid much attention as I live out of state, but KVIL had always been a major player not only in the DFW Metroplex, but in all of the country as a leading AC station. It seems as of late though that something has happened to take them where they are now.

Does anyone have any insight? It seems a shame to me that the polish has come off the star.

What's your point?
 
sidchase said:
Gee what has changed. It just the same as it was in the Glory days. Liner cards carefully read that say Today's refreshing lite Rock followed by a 14 min spot set and Deliahla ;D

And the music is better too.
 
It will never be what it used to be. No broadcast station will.

I remember being excited when I got up and had a shift scheduled at KVIL. Looking forward to talking to the metro, interaction with listeners, wondering if I will get anything airworthy from the phones today, what's on my playlist, etc.

I am wondering what jocks look forward to now? Can't wait to do 2-3 takes per break in a small production room/closet and upload them to the server when I am done?

Really??
 
I would say KVIL has gone from a one-of-a-kind radio station straight into the cookie-cutter mold. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth KVIL allowed listeners to develop an emotional bond with the station, feeling you were a part of the station simply by listening. You tuned in to hear someone you felt you sort of knew and were curious what the DJ might do or say next. Now it is the typical radio fodder. KVIL has become more 'average' over the years. It is an evolution that plagues radio today. People say radio cannot do what it once did because our world has changed and more media choices have eroded radio's edge. I can see that but I contend people were saying the same thing about Rush Limbaugh when he started. Love him, or hate him, he built his empire by not following the road well traveled. Rush enjoys his success by building the same sort of 'one-of-a-kind' qualities as KVIL once had (and I'm not talking about his politics, etc...I'm talking the elements of his format).
 
It started with deregulation in the 80's. KVIL sold several times to a point where the debt service on the note was more than they could produce. This led to cuts that took away the talent, promotions and sizzle that was KVIL. Big corporations, minus real radio people, brought in the bean counters and local ownership and control was a thing of the past. Add that to many additional stations added to markets under deregulation and the party was over.

Even the transmitter at Cedar Hill was being held together with bailing wire.
 
The_X_Man_Cometh said:
KVIL, in its heyday, was some of the very best "theater of the mind" ever created.

I haven't listend to KVIL for several years, but I can still sing those jingles...especially the Hugh Heller "It's a Shame What's happened To Radio..But They Can't afford to do it anymore."

And I'm getting a feeling of deja vue on this topic.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=149284.0

I remember those jingles. I never thought they were as creative as their other station WNAP...the buzzard of rock :)
 
The_X_Man_Cometh said:
KVIL, in its heyday, was some of the very best "theater of the mind" ever created.

I haven't listend to KVIL for several years, but I can still sing those jingles...especially the Hugh Heller "It's a Shame What's happened To Radio..But They Can't afford to do it anymore."

And I'm getting a feeling of deja vue on this topic.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=149284.0

Thanks for posting this link. The heydays of KVIL were radio at it's best !
 
Last July, KVIL was "back in the game" and got compliments on the music...

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=172181.0

In December/January, KVIL was #1, but people weren't really listening and ratings don't matter...

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=159785.0
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=160006.0

KVIL was a dying legend in 2005 (five years ago)...

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=23733.0

You guys always make for interesting reading. ;)
 
BenB said:
Last July, KVIL was "back in the game" and got compliments on the music...
One poster's opinion doesn't make it a fact.


In December/January, KVIL was #1, but people weren't really listening and ratings don't matter...
Impress me with something besides a stunt. Okay, great, you were #1 playing Christmas music. Then why don't you play Xmas music all year long? Oh, that's right, it wouldn't draw the same kind of listeners in July as it does in December.

KVIL was a dying legend in 2005 (five years ago)...
I don't have the time or inclination right now to go dig up your old ratings, but IMHO people used to perceive that station as "the #1 station in town", as a ratings monster, etc.

to be continued...
 
Sorry, hotspot issue...
Where was I? Oh yeah,
KVIL was a ratings monster. Now? You're 14th 6+.
I don't have the w25-54 ratings handy, but 6+ you're getting beaten by at least 5 other female skewing stations (KISS, KPLX, KLUV, KLTY, and KDMX). Hell, i93 is within half a point of y'all, that's how far back into the pack you've fallen.

We make make for interesting reading, but when it comes to the listeners, the ratings prove that KVIL no longer makes for interesting listening.
 
I recall a D magazine article about KVIL in its heyday. Ron Chapman made the following observation: " As long as I have my women [listeners] everything is going to be fine." And he was right. For a long, long time.

I never programmed radio in my life, but I believe if you have the lady of the house convinced of the merits of any of a number of categories,you are going to get the entire house. Church, doctor, supermarket, school, etc. Mom is keenly aware that she has to make a lot of decisions affecting the entire house, and she will do her best to choose wisely.

Based upon the finished product that eminated from that frequency, Chapman was obviously extremely adept at programming to women. One of the reasons KVIL had the programming it did: Chapman noted many years ago that "when a woman gets into your car, what's the first thing she does? She turns down the radio volume." Very subtle...and true.

Here is where other programmers made/still make a big mistake: They try to be like KVIL. See also: KMGC..etc. A raft of people tried to just bring in sunny-personality people and play an AC playlist. It never worked. And it won't work. What they fail to realize is that Chapman wasn't imitating anybody...his programming was visionary.

As an aside, what The Fan failed to realize is that they can't just bring a bunch of guys in and tell them "talk sports, except when you are talking guy stuff." That concept has been done quite well. It's called "The Ticket." And if Bruce Gilbert tells them, "Be hardcore sports guys"? That's been done too. It's called "ESPN."

I posted this on a thread where everyone was whacking The Fan like a cheap pinata, but I still believe it's possible: The Fan should take their guys, accentuate the talents of everybody there, and move them around for maximum effectiveness. I think Arnie is a talent, and I think he cares. Same with Newy. They aren't crap, they are just a hodgepodge. And the people have spoken.

My .02. Your mileage may differ.
 
pintobuddy, you know very little, if anything, about me, so I suggest you do not judge.

My point is that when KVIL may not be doing so good, they're terrible and the world's about to end, and when they win, it's just a gimmick or the ratings don't matter anyway.

6+ is a joke, 12+ is a joke. Check out W 25-54 and I think you'll see KVIL is strong with their target demo.

In today's world, with so much competition from all over, KVIL is going ok. It ain't never going to be like it used to be. If it could, somebody would be doing it.

Keep on truckin'. :)
 
BenB said:
My point is that when KVIL may not be doing so good, they're terrible and the world's about to end, and when they win, it's just a gimmick or the ratings don't matter anyway.
The only time they do well is Xmas. That's 1. maybe 2 months a year. The other 10 months, KVIL is an afterthought in this market now.

6+ is a joke, 12+ is a joke. Check out W 25-54 and I think you'll see KVIL is strong with their target demo.
If they were #1, you probably would say that. Look what I posted earlier. Off the top of my head, there's at at 3 stations that I would put money on beating you W25-54. Kiss, Kplx and KLTY.

In today's world, with so much competition from all over, KVIL is going ok. It ain't never going to be like it used to be. If it could, somebody would be doing it.
Th epoint is they used to be so much betterthan "Okay".
 
I'm amazed at how some think. Just because the trend is what it currently is simply means nobody has figured out how to create a new trend. I do not think radio is stuck in a rut, but in a situation where thinking outside the box hasn't happened yet in the right set of circumstances.

Funny thing, radio was mass appeal but we took our formats to a specialized market. We might do well 18 to 49 but decide we only want females 25-54. We got people so used to specialized radio, listeners now want a specialized format. If we can target a larger audience for a particular format it might work if we don't become so plain vanilla that nobody identifies with the station.

I guess I'm saying I'm just not satisfied with the same old, same old...it's time for some creativity but where are the companies that will try something beyond the same old, same old? The little guy can't handle the 'chance' and the big boys can't sell it to their stockholders. I know their thinking...my former boss was a banker who'd ask "How does this assure a return on my investment when this format her has a proven track record?"
 
"I'm amazed at how some think. Just because the trend is what it currently is simply means nobody has figured out how to create a new trend. I do not think radio is stuck in a rut, but in a situation where thinking outside the box hasn't happened yet in the right set of circumstances.

Funny thing, radio was mass appeal but we took our formats to a specialized market. We might do well 18 to 49 but decide we only want females 25-54. We got people so used to specialized radio, listeners now want a specialized format. If we can target a larger audience for a particular format it might work if we don't become so plain vanilla that nobody identifies with the station. "


I am wondering if the right set of circumstances are behind us now. The radio host used to be king of the mountain. Aside from tin cans on a string it was the only option that went beyond print. As TV phased in the radio guys lost some status, there was a competing form of communication and it had pictures. There were movies, but they are not local nor interactive and it took effort to go see one. TV at least had local personalities and felt like home during local broadcasts. Evening TV viewing took over evening radio listening for the average American family as the preferred consumption of communication. People didn't probably pick up the phone to chat, not really seen at that time as a form of casual communication. Now there are so many outlets for communication folks may seem overwealmed and many of them a lot more personal and interactive than radio. I can hop on Facebook and connect with a couple of hundred people I actually know personally at the tap of a button and find out what they are up to with a few minutes in front of the screen. My wife and I text message back and forth throughout most days and anyone looking for me can find me hanging out on the other end of my Blackberry (which I just got 3 weeks ago and had never sent a text message before that). The IPAD brings the web right to your fingertips wherever you are. Honestly I listen to Pandora on my cell phone via blue tooth over my car radio at 87.1 more than I do local radio now. I can build the format that meets my musical desire of the moment that way. If not, I am streaming MP3 in the same fashion. About the only thing my car radio is used for is to listen to sports talk if I am in the mood. I think music radio has been way overshawdowed by other better more listen specific and/or intimate forms of communication. Hello text messaging between teenages, goodbye night high profile CHR jock numbers.

The other downswing is what I think digital has done to the music industry. They seem slow to embrace it for obvious reasons and I think it hurts some artists motivation to work as hard on new material as the payoff is not the same as it used to be at .99 per song or whatever. The spectrum and volume of quality new material from major players seems more limited over the last 10+ years than ever (I cannot speak for urban or country as I am not in the demo). I loved my time in personlity music radio. I am seeing what is happening to print newspapers now. Times are changing and delivery methods and associated content have to adapt or face extinction.
 
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