S
ScatzerFan
Guest
How did that Retro 93.9 thing work out?
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What is "independent" about KLU?
- Thread starter radioho
- Start date
How is that related to WKLU?
ScatzerFan said:
So when does Big Brother step in and turn on the "Take it Outside" switch?
By now that would have happened to me when stuff gets "too personal" or whatever.
:
By now that would have happened to me when stuff gets "too personal" or whatever.
:
So much BS and so little fact:
Lets see about how radio history has treated high power stations versus low power:
1964 WIFE (1 kw nights, 5KW days) was #1 after kicking 50KW WIBC so hard that it took them out of the market until Jim Hilliard came to town.
Bruce The Pirate would probably object to the N D radioguy's comments but he is too much of a pro and gentleman to respond so I will: When you follow your own programming ideas instead of the consultants/corporate PD/sale department, here's what you get: a station that doesn't measure up very well to a "corporate model" of local radio. (Guess this makes me neither a pro nor a gentleman.)
Before you take a shot at my characterization of corporate radio, once upon a time that was a term used to describe station ownership not programming. One of the most successful radio corporations in post WWII history was the ABC owned and operated stations prior to the 1996 rule changes.
The rule's then were very simple-allow the programming department to produce something good for the sales department to sell. The ABC radio group was programmed to the station's local markets.
Results? Must have worked OK in that in NY-Chicago-SFO they are still folding their own in their market while being AM stations. Yes, those 2 nasty words AY-EM. They still have an AM station in LA but not the original signals in Pittsburgh and Detroit.
WFBQ's programming rating weakness after Bob and Tom is well known and is one reason they are on WFBQ past 10AM. (get it, the next rating day part).
Finally, Bruce and WKLU. Ask Clear Channel what happens when you don't buy the ARB's. Bruce knows how it works. Pick a whole number between 1.0 and 3.0. Add that to Bruce's the last WKLU 12+ rating. Makes a hell of a sales pitch for buying ratings services. As we all know, the ARB numbers used for sales are limited to station which participate in the book. Since all stations that are measured do not participate, those non-participating stations are passive with respect to any reviews of the diary's contents and "clearifications" which are used to generate the ratings.
Power-versus ratings:
Top 5 Indianapolis stations powers: December ARB Trends
58 KW
50/10 KW
13 KW
3.3 KW
3.0 KW
This list is not in rating order.
Lets see about how radio history has treated high power stations versus low power:
1964 WIFE (1 kw nights, 5KW days) was #1 after kicking 50KW WIBC so hard that it took them out of the market until Jim Hilliard came to town.
Bruce The Pirate would probably object to the N D radioguy's comments but he is too much of a pro and gentleman to respond so I will: When you follow your own programming ideas instead of the consultants/corporate PD/sale department, here's what you get: a station that doesn't measure up very well to a "corporate model" of local radio. (Guess this makes me neither a pro nor a gentleman.)
Before you take a shot at my characterization of corporate radio, once upon a time that was a term used to describe station ownership not programming. One of the most successful radio corporations in post WWII history was the ABC owned and operated stations prior to the 1996 rule changes.
The rule's then were very simple-allow the programming department to produce something good for the sales department to sell. The ABC radio group was programmed to the station's local markets.
Results? Must have worked OK in that in NY-Chicago-SFO they are still folding their own in their market while being AM stations. Yes, those 2 nasty words AY-EM. They still have an AM station in LA but not the original signals in Pittsburgh and Detroit.
WFBQ's programming rating weakness after Bob and Tom is well known and is one reason they are on WFBQ past 10AM. (get it, the next rating day part).
Finally, Bruce and WKLU. Ask Clear Channel what happens when you don't buy the ARB's. Bruce knows how it works. Pick a whole number between 1.0 and 3.0. Add that to Bruce's the last WKLU 12+ rating. Makes a hell of a sales pitch for buying ratings services. As we all know, the ARB numbers used for sales are limited to station which participate in the book. Since all stations that are measured do not participate, those non-participating stations are passive with respect to any reviews of the diary's contents and "clearifications" which are used to generate the ratings.
Power-versus ratings:
Top 5 Indianapolis stations powers: December ARB Trends
58 KW
50/10 KW
13 KW
3.3 KW
3.0 KW
This list is not in rating order.
R
radiofriend1
Guest
clear channel subscribes to arbitron
Let's clarify "following your own programming ideas". Does this mean programming in a vacuum, not asking for anyone's input, and being determined that you know better than your own potential listeners what they want and having no need to ask them? I do remmeber Bruce Quinn's stations in Monticello and Attica...shoving every concievable genre of music on the stations and playing Bruce's favorite obscure Belinda Carlisle tunes. Even he had to eventually go with a dreaded format eventually.
O
Old Skool
Guest
Media1170, your comments border on the bizarre are are at best naive. While Arbitron may be the most unscrupulous organization in the world, they are not suicidal enough to change or tilt ratings based on whether a station subscribes or not. They are accredited and AUDITED. Your high minded, philosophical ideas are great for the ONE PERSON PROGAMMING THE ONE STATION and nobody else. Radio stations have to program to the masses, like it or not. To satisfy the masses, the songs that agree with the broadest cluster of people must be played, not some phish or grateful dead cut that nobody knows. It's difficult to respond to an irrational argument and that's what you have proffered.
Clear Channel's relationship with ARB is a matter of record. As I recall there was quite a lot of Clear Channel dissatisfaction with ARB.
San Antonio Business Journal August 18, 2005:
"Clear Channel Communications Inc. said Thursday it has received proposals from more than two dozen companies that could provide an alternative to the paper diary system Arbitron Inc. currently uses to measure radio station ratings."
Remember the the admonition about government oversight: who watches the watchers.
Ask who are the auditors? Who audits them?
Anyone care to inform Old school (oops old skool) how the ARB handles the diary challenges?
Anyone care to inform Old skool who can and can't challenge a diary?
gr8oldies quote of my earlier post is from my complete statement:
"When you follow your own programming ideas instead of the consultants/corporate PD/sale department, here's what you get: a station that doesn't measure up very well to a "corporate model" of local radio."
This was addressing the criteria used for evaluating programming as apposed to the results. Sorry the thought was not clear enough. By the way, ABC did only OK in LA and and Detroit and pretty good in Pittsburgh.
Babe Ruth led in home runs and strike outs. If he was a radio station would he be a winner or a looser?
Where's Bill Shirk when we need him. Can you help out here Bill? Was Ruth a winner or a looser? Was WXLW a winner or a looser? Was WHHR a winner or a looser?
Maybe Bruce the original Jack FM?
San Antonio Business Journal August 18, 2005:
"Clear Channel Communications Inc. said Thursday it has received proposals from more than two dozen companies that could provide an alternative to the paper diary system Arbitron Inc. currently uses to measure radio station ratings."
Remember the the admonition about government oversight: who watches the watchers.
Ask who are the auditors? Who audits them?
Anyone care to inform Old school (oops old skool) how the ARB handles the diary challenges?
Anyone care to inform Old skool who can and can't challenge a diary?
gr8oldies quote of my earlier post is from my complete statement:
"When you follow your own programming ideas instead of the consultants/corporate PD/sale department, here's what you get: a station that doesn't measure up very well to a "corporate model" of local radio."
This was addressing the criteria used for evaluating programming as apposed to the results. Sorry the thought was not clear enough. By the way, ABC did only OK in LA and and Detroit and pretty good in Pittsburgh.
Babe Ruth led in home runs and strike outs. If he was a radio station would he be a winner or a looser?
Where's Bill Shirk when we need him. Can you help out here Bill? Was Ruth a winner or a looser? Was WXLW a winner or a looser? Was WHHR a winner or a looser?
Maybe Bruce the original Jack FM?
It's the argument that goes on forever, isn't it? Let's strip away all the jargon:
Why do people get into radio? To say whatever they want and be entertaining/entertain themselves/ their listeners and play whatever music they want.
What reality eventually happens when you actually get into radio business?
They tell you NOT to say whatever you want and just follow the index cards or what the consultant tells you and DON'T play whatever music you want and follow what's on the clock or the computer.
Does any other type of career choice or business offer up such a brutal and blunt oxymoron?????
At least if you sign up to put tires on the cars at the assembly line, guess what?
YOU GET TO PUT TIRES ON! JUST LIKE YOU ANTICIPATED!!!
By the laws of nature and business the "we do whatever we want" stations are NEVER going to be as successful as the stations that have a deliberate business plan in place and make the most money in the market and have the most listeners. It's not wattage, it's not the FCC, it's not even Arbitron diaries.
If you could go back in a time machine to a land that didn't have as many FM stations, people relied mostly on AM stations, and there was a live jock every shift, things might be different.
But this is 2007, not 1977 or 1987.
The closest you can come to getting close to what you want and not sacrifice your listening experience is high school, college, podcasting or (most) satellite radio.
NOBODY has any new ideas in FM radio other than what you currently hear. You can talk about how great it still is and you're still enjoying your gig, but you're not actually offering up anything NEW, are you?
Keep saying you're a good soldier, you're a professional, you pick up your check, you love your job. That's fine. I'm not disputing that. But the truth in relation to radio and not you:
The breaks are at :20, :35, and :52.
You have to read off the cards.
You have a consultant telling you how to "be yourself".
You probably voice track your shift and don't do it live in the first place.
You still give your name, what time of day it is, what day it is, and back annouce or pre-sell songs we already know by now almost every break.
You still have liners with a deep-voiced attitude guy or a woman who sounds like she's choking on her own vomit and a multitude of clips from movies and animated tv shows (Simpsons or South Park) in rapid succession.
Something NEW in the last 20 years? The next 20? Please? Anyone? :-\
I held out as long as I could, kids. But I'm going to use my Best Buy certificate and buy an iPod.
Why do people get into radio? To say whatever they want and be entertaining/entertain themselves/ their listeners and play whatever music they want.
What reality eventually happens when you actually get into radio business?
They tell you NOT to say whatever you want and just follow the index cards or what the consultant tells you and DON'T play whatever music you want and follow what's on the clock or the computer.
Does any other type of career choice or business offer up such a brutal and blunt oxymoron?????
At least if you sign up to put tires on the cars at the assembly line, guess what?
YOU GET TO PUT TIRES ON! JUST LIKE YOU ANTICIPATED!!!
By the laws of nature and business the "we do whatever we want" stations are NEVER going to be as successful as the stations that have a deliberate business plan in place and make the most money in the market and have the most listeners. It's not wattage, it's not the FCC, it's not even Arbitron diaries.
If you could go back in a time machine to a land that didn't have as many FM stations, people relied mostly on AM stations, and there was a live jock every shift, things might be different.
But this is 2007, not 1977 or 1987.
The closest you can come to getting close to what you want and not sacrifice your listening experience is high school, college, podcasting or (most) satellite radio.
NOBODY has any new ideas in FM radio other than what you currently hear. You can talk about how great it still is and you're still enjoying your gig, but you're not actually offering up anything NEW, are you?
Keep saying you're a good soldier, you're a professional, you pick up your check, you love your job. That's fine. I'm not disputing that. But the truth in relation to radio and not you:
The breaks are at :20, :35, and :52.
You have to read off the cards.
You have a consultant telling you how to "be yourself".
You probably voice track your shift and don't do it live in the first place.
You still give your name, what time of day it is, what day it is, and back annouce or pre-sell songs we already know by now almost every break.
You still have liners with a deep-voiced attitude guy or a woman who sounds like she's choking on her own vomit and a multitude of clips from movies and animated tv shows (Simpsons or South Park) in rapid succession.
Something NEW in the last 20 years? The next 20? Please? Anyone? :-\
I held out as long as I could, kids. But I'm going to use my Best Buy certificate and buy an iPod.
R
radiofriend1
Guest
media1170 said:
moot point. U said "xxx should ask clear channel........about not subscribing to arbitron"
actually it was cbs who severed their arbitron ties a couple of yrs ago (then re-upped)
As far as our company is concerned, Bruce Quinn made one fatal mistake.
He let his djs say what they wanted to say and play what they wanted to play.
I remember one woman comming in and changing the format to her favorite blues.
Guess by our standards, he should have made them go down a playlist and read
cards.
He let his djs say what they wanted to say and play what they wanted to play.
I remember one woman comming in and changing the format to her favorite blues.
Guess by our standards, he should have made them go down a playlist and read
cards.
Why do people get into radio?
I got in because my mom dated a guy who worked at WSMJ. I went to work with him one day and I was hooked. There is also the infamous Stan Freberg commercial about radio. If you don't know it, I'm not gonna tell ya.
It beats working for a living. If you are creative enough there are ways to get your personality in through all the PD's rules.
I held out as long as I could, kids. But I'm going to use my Best Buy certificate and buy an iPod.
Good luck with that. I have an IPOD as well, but it is not my exclusive form of entertainment. I like the immediacy and intimacy of radio. The PD has given us the lattitude that if a major news story happens locally or nationally, we can break in and pass the info along.
I got in because my mom dated a guy who worked at WSMJ. I went to work with him one day and I was hooked. There is also the infamous Stan Freberg commercial about radio. If you don't know it, I'm not gonna tell ya.
It beats working for a living. If you are creative enough there are ways to get your personality in through all the PD's rules.
I held out as long as I could, kids. But I'm going to use my Best Buy certificate and buy an iPod.
Good luck with that. I have an IPOD as well, but it is not my exclusive form of entertainment. I like the immediacy and intimacy of radio. The PD has given us the lattitude that if a major news story happens locally or nationally, we can break in and pass the info along.
CREDIT ANOTHER ONE TO WSMJ
What a great story. How have I never heard that Tom?
Pardon my asking but were they in the old chicken hatchery on the west side of Greenfield - or the converted pre-fab house behind the county highway department barn across from the high school? And who was the DJ?
Tom Berg said:
What a great story. How have I never heard that Tom?
Pardon my asking but were they in the old chicken hatchery on the west side of Greenfield - or the converted pre-fab house behind the county highway department barn across from the high school? And who was the DJ?
Tom Berg said:
"If you are creative enough, there are ways to get your personality in..."Yikes. So trying to be yourself takes manuevering? No thanks.
"the immediacy and intimacy of radio"?Where? Big part of my point. Hard to achieve when people only listen in their cars for 1 1/2 songs before they punch out and most of the headlines are stale by the time you get to hear the top-of-hour headlines someone snagged off the dish.
"The PD has given us the lattitude that if a major news story happens locally or nationally, we can break in and pass the info along"
"Hey, everyone! Two planes went into the World Trade Center! I don't have to read from the promo card!"
Again, good day to you, sir.
Timewarp said:
Just not possible. I'd have to see some numbers/facts on that.
Most likely the first thing a business owner asks when they are about to plunk down a fistful of their money is,
"How are the ratings?"
That's most of the battle, isn't it?
If he had high ratings, the work was practically done for the sales people and they'd be rolling in dough.
Unless he had a bunch of trained chimps selling for him.
And in smaller surrounding counties like that, he probably knew all the people personally and didn't have to show them ratings or anything else to get them to sign on the dotted line, right?
Need more hard numbers on that story, T-Warp.
Now let's answer the original question in this thread. IT"S NOT.
RUSS IS CORPORATE RADIO. HE TOO OWNS SEVERAL STATIONS.
WSHY-FM/Columbia City and WBTU-FM/Kendallville (Ft. Wayne)
PRICE: Undisclosed
TERMS: Terms unavailable
BUYER: Fort Wayne Radio Corp., headed by President/Secretary Russ Oasis. Phone: 305-667-6800. It owns one other station, including WJFX-FM/Ft. Wayne.
SELLER: Artistic Media Partners Inc, headed by President/CEO Arthur Angotti. Phone: 317-594-0600
FREQUENCY: 106.3 MHz; 93.3 MHz
POWER: 6kw at 340 feet; 19kw at 384 feet
FORMAT: 70s Oldies; Country
BROKER: Michael J. Bergner of Bergner & Co.
COMMENT: Artistic Media Partners' WSHY-FM/Columbia City and WBTU-FM/Kendallville, IN to Fort Wayne Radio Corp. for an undisclosed price
RUSS IS CORPORATE RADIO. HE TOO OWNS SEVERAL STATIONS.
WSHY-FM/Columbia City and WBTU-FM/Kendallville (Ft. Wayne)
PRICE: Undisclosed
TERMS: Terms unavailable
BUYER: Fort Wayne Radio Corp., headed by President/Secretary Russ Oasis. Phone: 305-667-6800. It owns one other station, including WJFX-FM/Ft. Wayne.
SELLER: Artistic Media Partners Inc, headed by President/CEO Arthur Angotti. Phone: 317-594-0600
FREQUENCY: 106.3 MHz; 93.3 MHz
POWER: 6kw at 340 feet; 19kw at 384 feet
FORMAT: 70s Oldies; Country
BROKER: Michael J. Bergner of Bergner & Co.
COMMENT: Artistic Media Partners' WSHY-FM/Columbia City and WBTU-FM/Kendallville, IN to Fort Wayne Radio Corp. for an undisclosed price
Lafayette Unplugged said:
Anything is possible.
Sometimes the advertisers don't like the format and won't buy, no matter how good your numbers are.
The advertisers in the surrounding counties usually don't want to pay the higher freight. Also most of them know the bigger city people aren't going to drive to Podunk to get the same thing they can get in the bigger city with less travel time.
Back to T-Warp's ORIGINAL point:
I don't believe the format and station he was talking about had any ratings. I'd still like to know which diary that was.
Very good additonal point/topic, 10-4. However, I always feel sorry for the advertisers who think they have to support the home team by throwing money at them because "obviously you're supposed to buy spots on the local station". But most of the folks in Podunk are probably listening to the bigger city station anyway and SHOULD be paying the higher freight if there radio advertising is going to do them any good in the first place.
For example, WMRS never handily defeats WKOA in the White County ratings.
WFBQ beats WSHP in some day parts although they both carry Bob and Tom and WSHP is closer.
And WFBQ always clobbers WSHW in Kokomo and Shine is closer.
Why?
Listeners want to feel like they are listening to the "fancy" big city station with the big city wattage.
The same can be said that there's no shame in buying more expensive spots on FOX-59 instead of WLFI if it's going to reach more people or different people.
People beg you to "buy local", but with radio and TV advertising, it's not always the best/wisest choice.
I don't believe the format and station he was talking about had any ratings. I'd still like to know which diary that was.
Very good additonal point/topic, 10-4. However, I always feel sorry for the advertisers who think they have to support the home team by throwing money at them because "obviously you're supposed to buy spots on the local station". But most of the folks in Podunk are probably listening to the bigger city station anyway and SHOULD be paying the higher freight if there radio advertising is going to do them any good in the first place.
For example, WMRS never handily defeats WKOA in the White County ratings.
WFBQ beats WSHP in some day parts although they both carry Bob and Tom and WSHP is closer.
And WFBQ always clobbers WSHW in Kokomo and Shine is closer.
Why?
Listeners want to feel like they are listening to the "fancy" big city station with the big city wattage.
The same can be said that there's no shame in buying more expensive spots on FOX-59 instead of WLFI if it's going to reach more people or different people.
People beg you to "buy local", but with radio and TV advertising, it's not always the best/wisest choice.
WSMJ
What a great story. How have I never heard that Tom?
It just never came up in conversation before. His name was Brad Reed. I believe it was the converted prefab house (white?) with the letters of the station along one side of the building, and 3 pennant type displays if I remember correctly. I WAS just a kid ya know!
Before we derail this thread further, email me [email protected]
What a great story. How have I never heard that Tom?
It just never came up in conversation before. His name was Brad Reed. I believe it was the converted prefab house (white?) with the letters of the station along one side of the building, and 3 pennant type displays if I remember correctly. I WAS just a kid ya know!
Before we derail this thread further, email me [email protected]
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