What is kroq gonna do?

[TheBigA]

I knew the end was near when they started mixing in Cyndi Lauper records.

Just an FYI, other Metromedia rock stations were playing Cyndi Lauper records at the time. And they stayed with the format for years after KMET flipped.

I asked this when Billie Eilish won all the Grammy awards and became the next big thing. Does all that success and attention ruin her credibility at alternative stations? Or wasn't she really the canary in the coal mine when KROQ and KYSR started playing her records over a year ago before she was the next big thing?

 

[radiojomo]

I stand by what I said circles by post malone doesn't belong on a alternative rock station. Ya know what I did after that I switched the station to alt 98.7 and didn't go back all day.

It's not even slightly alternative.

As an alternative rock station your product is the killers not post malone. As an alternative station your product is the 1975 not post malone. As an alternative rock station your product is Kenny hoopla not post malone.

And if you can't get numbers playing the music in the format well switch formats.

Dumb just dumb

KROQ has a long history of playing hip-hop and pop records, with listeners really embracing them. Also, those artists you listened are all in heavy rotation at KROQ. Plus, KYSR was spinning Post Malone’s Nirvana covers a few weeks ago...

 

[macattack]

Maybe. Something has to change. They can't keep doing what they'd done before, because it clearly wasn't working. KROQ isn't the same without Kevin & Bean, so just playing the same music is a waste of time. I doubt people were listening because of the great and exciting music, because as you say, the best years of alternative music have passed. So why not latch on to something else? When you're already at a 1 share, what do you have to lose? There IS some great and exciting music being made, and it has demonstrated it can attract a consensus audience. That's what radio does. That's what it's supposed to do. If it doesn't fit in someone else's category, so what?

KROQ's final Weatherly-era share was 2.5. Even at their worst KROQ was getting a 2.0. The 1 shares didn't start until Kaplan took over.

IMO, there is some strong, perhaps even incredible, alternative music out there, alt radio simply isn't playing it and is instead playing bizarre pop that is crossing over from CHR. I feel like the typical Alt PD is afraid to playing anything edgier than the newest Cage the Elephant (who've softened their sound dramatically the last five years, though they remain a good band), or they want to abandon rock entirely in favor of quirky pop.

 

[TheBigA]

KROQ's final Weatherly-era share was 2.5. Even at their worst it was a 2.1. The 1 shares didn't start until Kaplan took over.

So Kaplan's starting in the basement. It's all up from here. If he can't recreate the success, he'll get fired. That's all one can say.

IMO, there is some strong, perhaps even incredible, alternative music out there, alt radio simply isn't playing it and is instead playing bizarre pop that is crossing over from CHR.

They're not playing it because there's no one at the labels promoting it. It's extremely rare that any radio station, but especially one in a major market, plays music without at least some promotion from the label. I don't know why the labels don't care. But apparently they don't, and it's hurting the broader appreciation of their music.

I get told this exact thing every day about Americana music. I get told by fans that I should be playing the Avett Brothers or Jason Isbell. I've seen them both play at my own expense, but none of their reps are looking for crossover success, and I appreciate that.

 

[davideduardo]

KROQ's final Weatherly-era share was 2.5. Even at their worst KROQ was getting a 2.0. The 1 shares didn't start until Kaplan took over.

I am looking at AQH persons 25-54 going back to March of 2019. KROQ is well within the margin of error between 11,700 and 13,300 persons in every month except for being slightly below that level in one of the 2019 summer months. That is amazingly stable.

It is impossible to judge any station from March onward due to the changed PUR levels due to the pandemic. One must look at AQH persons to see reality, not share. And never 12+ share.

KYSR was much more bouncy and had greater extremes between the high and low, but it lost almost the same amount from March onwards, in percentage of average listeners, as KROQ. As the saying goes, low tide affects all ships.

The same conclusion can be made looking at 18-34 and 18-49, although KYSR has always had an advantage in younger demos and that broadened the KROQ losing margin in the pre-virus 13 books I looked at.

You can not compare shares in March, April and May of 2020 with any prior period as they are based on a significantly changed PUR number. You are using invalid and inappropriate share numbers which can't be looked at now; you can't look at the numerator if the denominator has changed. Even Nielsen itself told stations and advertisers not to.

 

[macattack]

KROQ had a slight uptick to 1.7 but rival KYSR shot up to 3.1. I wonder how AQH was affected...

 

[davideduardo]

KROQ had a slight uptick to 1.7 but rival KYSR shot up to 3.1. I wonder how AQH was affected...

It's still considerably below the January-February pre-Virus levels.

In AQH persons in 25-54, KYSR is about 30% below those levels, but KROQ is a full 50% below.

So we can say that KROQ is truly down, while KYSR is just "down with the market".

 

[Brian Bowers]

>>>You can not compare shares in March, April and May of 2020 with any prior period as they are based on a significantly changed PUR number. You are using invalid and inappropriate share numbers which can't be looked at now; you can't look at the numerator if the denominator has changed. Even Nielsen itself told stations and advertisers not to.<<<

As far as I can tell, the world has changed, and will not be going back to the normal we all knew pre-pandemic, for quite some time. So for how long do Nielsen subscribers keep ignoring current-pandemic PPM data? Just wondering.

 

[Brian Bowers]

>>>They're not playing it because there's no one at the labels promoting it. It's extremely rare that any radio station, but especially one in a major market, plays music without at least some promotion from the label.<<<

In the good ol' days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio, most radio stations had Music Directors who listened to new releases, and picked cuts for air. Many of those MD's couldn't care less if the labels were promoting it or not, it still got played. Those were the GREAT days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio!

Screw the labels. If you want a great sounding radio station, and want to stand out from all of the others, find an MD that can pick the hits, or killer cuts. That's the problem these days, almost every music station sounds the same as the other, playing the same format. I love music radio, but am mostly bored to tears by the commercial music stations these days.

 

[macattack]

It's still considerably below the January-February pre-Virus levels.

In AQH persons in 25-54, KYSR is about 30% below those levels, but KROQ is a full 50% below.

So we can say that KROQ is truly down, while KYSR is just "down with the market".

Gotcha, thank you very much.

 

[davideduardo]

In the good ol' days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio, most radio stations had Music Directors who listened to new releases, and picked cuts for air. Many of those MD's couldn't care less if the labels were promoting it or not, it still got played. Those were the GREAT days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio!

You are forgetting that going against a label's promotional preferences would mean getting cut out of promotions, concerts, trips for listeners to win (or the PD to junket on) and general bad relations.

While AOR stations in their prime years certainly did deeper cuts, they were also keyed into label desires to keep a balance and good relations. And AOR stations, whether Superstars or other consultant's variants, followed rather strict guidance on playlist depth and new music adds.

Screw the labels. If you want a great sounding radio station, and want to stand out from all of the others, find an MD that can pick the hits, or killer cuts. That's the problem these days, almost every music station sounds the same as the other, playing the same format. I love music radio, but am mostly bored to tears by the commercial music stations these days.

Again, even now, going against the stream is really a turn-off to the labels. And with only a couple of companies controlling 90% of production, that is a very bad step.

The reason stations in different markets play the same songs is partly due to following label release priorities. But it is also due to the fact that the Internet and streaming have homogenized tastes in music genres on a national basis. A hit in Atlanta is a hit in Spokane now. In the past, most regional hits were the product of less cross-pollination of playlists, not because of differences in taste.

The fact is that in most formats, there is a symbiotic relationship between music and radio. While streaming has reduced the importance of radio in some formats, it is a fact of life. Of course, in rock there is very limited label interest due to the narrow silo-like subdivisions of rock genres so there is not much promotional activity. When the #1 YouTube streamed song is a Spanish language reggaeton song, and there are no recent rock songs unless crossovers like Maroon 5 count as "real rock".

 

[TheBigA]

In the good ol' days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio, most radio stations had Music Directors who listened to new releases, and picked cuts for air. Many of those MD's couldn't care less if the labels were promoting it or not, it still got played. Those were the GREAT days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio!

All that ended in the late 70s. Progressive rock was around for a few years, and then the consultants came in and started telling stations what to play. One of the early companies involved in progressive rock was Metromedia. The free form days ended in 1978 when CEO John Kluge told the staff they had to start making him money. Playlists got tighter. They hired Music Directors whose job it was to play what the labels wanted. KSAN flipped to country and KMET went smooth jazz. Yes the good ol' days. Sounds like selective memory to me.

 

[Brian Bowers]

If there's no support from the labels, then who cares what songs you're playing, and which ones you aren't? This is why commercial music radio sucks big time. No one has the balls to stand on their own two feet. What a mess commercial music radio has gotten itself into. My attitude was always (to the labels), guess what, it's our radio station, and like it or not, we'll play what new music we feel like. I recently worked for a CHR, and we were *never ever* visited by the labels. The labels couldn't care less these days what radio is doing.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

All that ended in the late 70s. Progressive rock was around for a few years, and then the consultants came in and started telling stations what to play. One of the early companies involved in progressive rock was Metromedia. The free form days ended in 1978 when CEO John Kluge told the staff they had to start making him money. Playlists got tighter. They hired Music Directors whose job it was to play what the labels wanted. KSAN flipped to country and KMET went smooth jazz. Yes the good ol' days. Sounds like selective memory to me.

You are right. The good old days ended in 1978 when the consultants got involved. You say selective memory, I remember it very well. In fact it was right about that time, 1978, when the rock became less progressive (I like the term eclectic, more descriptive) and suddenly the AOR era began where everything had to sound like Queen, Foreigner or 38 Special to get played; sorry Joni Mitchell, you're out. When the audience became tired of listening to the same formulaic rock for several years, these same consultants recommended mixing in the Cyndi Lauper records, and then the whole thing imploded into New Age music and the "Captain of Her Heart".

Boy do I remember the consultants. Love the consultants.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

>>>They're not playing it because there's no one at the labels promoting it. It's extremely rare that any radio station, but especially one in a major market, plays music without at least some promotion from the label.<<<

In the good ol' days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio, most radio stations had Music Directors who listened to new releases, and picked cuts for air. Many of those MD's couldn't care less if the labels were promoting it or not, it still got played. Those were the GREAT days of AOR and Progressive Rock Radio!

Screw the labels. If you want a great sounding radio station, and want to stand out from all of the others, find an MD that can pick the hits, or killer cuts. That's the problem these days, almost every music station sounds the same as the other, playing the same format. I love music radio, but am mostly bored to tears by the commercial music stations these days.

A great station you may want to check out is Little Steven's Underground Garage on SiriusXM. I have no idea how much they are tied into the labels, but they are always identifying new songs and artists to play and you can tell there is someone (Little Steven himself or his hired hand, I don't know) is taking an active interest in identifying new music to make the station better. They get behind one new song every week and call it the "coolest record in the world" and play the snot out of it during that week. Some of those songs are here and gone, but some stick around to be "hits", at least on his channel.

Another cool thing is that anything in the rock world from just about any genre from about 1955 on is fair game on the channel. Keeps it interesting.

 

[TheBigA]

Boy do I remember the consultants. Love the consultants.

The reason for consultants was they're easier to fire than employees.

A great station you may want to check out is Little Steven's Underground Garage on SiriusXM.

Once again, this is subscription radio. If you had to pay a subscription fee for KROQ, the music would be a lot different. We would all love a job where we didn't have to attract advertisers. It's so much easier. But the listeners have to be willing to pay, and only around 10% of the population are willing to do that. Unfortunately I like to eat, and radio is my primary source of income.

In answer to your question, Steven subcontracts to a lot of people who think like him.

 

[Brian Bowers]

I highly doubt Rick Carroll was listening to the labels in the 80's. BTW, there was tons of great music in the 80's! College radio (in addition to the 'ROQ of the 80's) was huge in the 80's, and playing all of it.

Reprinted from an LA Times article:

“We owe Rick a lot. . . . It’s just too bad there aren’t more Rick Carrolls out there,” said Danny Elfman, lead singer of Oingo Boingo. “I really don’t know what would have happened if we’d only just played the little clubs without the support of KROQ. Rick recognized that there were bands out there that were very popular (in local clubs) and if they played a little bit of it, kids responded in a big way.”

 

[TheBigA]

“I really don’t know what would have happened if we’d only just played the little clubs without the support of KROQ.

Yes I know. It works both ways. The artists helped the stations and the stations helped the artists and the labels greased everyone's palms. That's how it worked back then. It was all a wonderful system until the money ran out. Now the labels think is all they have to do is put the music on Amazon and everyone will find it magically. There are a lot of very poor and angry musicians who wonder what happened to the private jets and free cocaine. It was all left in the 80s. There are some people still flying in private jets, but they all had hits in the 80s. Or they're in country music, which is a lot like rock in the 80s.

 

[jasonharper2013]

Amp

amp now doing 2 minutes or less promise like KROQ

 

[MarkW]

Seems like the changes at Crock - err K-R-O-Q - have been a boon for competitor Alt 98.7 so far.