What is kroq gonna do?

[radiojomo]

Might be time to wipe away the "World Famous" part of the logo. I'm not sure it's even going to be "Locally Famous." Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is now a totally different radio station.

Your answer to the origins of the "World Famous KROQ" tagline is here: https://youtu.be/psvAKChmNss?t=1003



It all dates back to INXS...Michael Hutchence of INXS said "everyone in Australia knows about KROQ...you're the world famous KROQ."

And the tagline just stuck.

 

[davideduardo]

What I think is super interesting about the "Two Minute Promise" is the psychological element of it. Maybe listeners do prefer longer blocks of music in PPM, but what if you're TELLING the listener and being transparent with them that there are only two minutes of commercials? It could work. I'm sure there's some research behind the significance of two minutes..

The two minute promise is several decades old having originated at an Australian FM group in the late 90's or early 2000's on 2DayFM, if I recall correctly.

I had hoped back then to travel to Melbourne to examine the proposition, but those blokes in accounting just would not have it.

Interestingly, in the 70's when FM was on the rise, many stations, whether rock of Beautiful Music or somewhere in between ran 8 minutes of spots an hour. As FM took over from AM, commercial loads increased.

But 4 stops with two minutes each was fairly common back then. Interestingly, the TSL was at its best in that era.

 

[TheBigA]

Interestingly, the TSL was at its best in that era.

Sure, that's what they wrote in their diary.

Seems to me the 2 minute promise only matters in terms of their competition with KYSR. It isn't going to help them grow their audience, but rather take away from the other station. People aren't going to listen to music they don't like just because of a 2 minute promise. At some point they have to find a way to grow the audience for the format, and that's not as easy as adjusting commercial load.

 

[davideduardo]

Sure, that's what they wrote in their diary.

Yet in the later 90's and the 8 years in the new Millennium before the PPM, the TSL was declining. That sort of parallels the division in Alt partisans into rather separate but side by side silos. That hurt TSL long before the PPM began.

 

[TheBigA]

Yet in the later 90's and the 8 years in the new Millennium before the PPM, the TSL was declining. That sort of parallels the division in Alt partisans into rather separate but side by side silos. That hurt TSL long before the PPM began.

There were a lot of things besides commercial loads that affected radio TSL. Things outside of radio, such as video games, cable TV, and the explosion of personal music devices. But yes once we get into the 90s, the lack of consensus new music started to eat away, and brought us to where we are today.

 

[adradio]

KROQ was world famous for a reason...they were essentially the only commercial (with a decent audience) station in the U.S. playing what was then called 'modern rock' (think Depeche Mode, New Order, Smiths, Duran Duran, Oingo Boingo etc.). This music was exciting and fresh (vs. the drudge of the typical midwest rock station, think Journey, Foreigner, Nightranger, Phil Collins, Hall and Oates etc.). The LA radio audience at the time was very progressive and years ahead of the rest of the country. LA radio was where things happened and KROQ was at the forefront. It was another world to be able to drive around LA and listen to this fresh music on KROQ...nowhere else in the country could you do that. Eventually, over time, other stations on the coasts picked up the modern rock format, but KROQ's influence in breaking new music remained. They had a great 20 year run, before things deteriorated into what we have today. It happens to all pioneering stations, but it shouldn't be forgotten as to the influence they had in the music industry. They were truly world famous.

 

[CTListener]

KROQ was world famous for a reason...they were essentially the only commercial (with a decent audience) station in the U.S. playing what was then called 'modern rock' (think Depeche Mode, New Order, Smiths, Duran Duran, Oingo Boingo etc.). This music was exciting and fresh (vs. the drudge of the typical midwest rock station, think Journey, Foreigner, Nightranger, Phil Collins, Hall and Oates etc.). The LA radio audience at the time was very progressive and years ahead of the rest of the country. LA radio was where things happened and KROQ was at the forefront. It was another world to be able to drive around LA and listen to this fresh music on KROQ...nowhere else in the country could you do that. Eventually, over time, other stations on the coasts picked up the modern rock format, but KROQ's influence in breaking new music remained. They had a great 20 year run, before things deteriorated into what we have today. It happens to all pioneering stations, but it shouldn't be forgotten as to the influence they had in the music industry. They were truly world famous.

With music and radio industry, people, perhaps -- and even there, only nationally famous. Listeners in other parts of the country and overseas had little to no knowledge of KROQ in its '80s heyday, and why would record company and radio people in Bangkok, Bucharest and Brisbane give two craps about it?

 

[davideduardo]

There were a lot of things besides commercial loads that affected radio TSL. Things outside of radio, such as video games, cable TV, and the explosion of personal music devices. But yes once we get into the 90s, the lack of consensus new music started to eat away, and brought us to where we are today.

But in the period I was referring to, TSL for radio was not declining. The "hurt" on TSL began simultaneously with the 2008 recession, the introduction of the smart phone and the beginning of the PPM rating service.

The recession, just as we expect from the pandemic, altered lifestyles of listeners and caused stations to reduce staff, research and promotion.

The smart phone took a number of years to start having an impact, but changed the way people communicate and that had an effect on media usage.

The PPM measured more accurately, and we found that the average listener spent about 30% less time with radio than the same station and same market showed in the diary.

KROQ's beginning of the end started well before that national "perfect storm", and it is independent of the changes in radio listening habits.

 

[davideduardo]

With music and radio industry, people, perhaps -- and even there, only nationally famous. Listeners in other parts of the country and overseas had little to no knowledge of KROQ in its '80s heyday, and why would record company and radio people in Bangkok, Bucharest and Brisbane give two craps about it?

Exactly. A few intense followers of the music outside of SoCal knew of the station and wished that there was one like it in Madison, WI, or some other distant market. The record promoters knew that any station that played even a bit of alternative rock followed KROQ as one of their guides and so they mentioned KROQ adds to try to get play elsewhere.

And a few programmers in Europe, South America, Australia, Canada were passingly interested in what it did as a station model since KROQ did really great promotions, features and such.

KROQ was famous in its own backyard but hardly so elsewhere. The slogan was, simply, puffery.

 

[TheBigA]

But in the period I was referring to, TSL for radio was not declining.

Radio TSL peaked in 1989. From there on, it declined. That's what I was referring to.

 

[davideduardo]

KROQ was world famous for a reason...they were essentially the only commercial (with a decent audience) station in the U.S. playing what was then called 'modern rock' (think Depeche Mode, New Order, Smiths, Duran Duran, Oingo Boingo etc.). This music was exciting and fresh (vs. the drudge of the typical midwest rock station, think Journey, Foreigner, Nightranger, Phil Collins, Hall and Oates etc.). The LA radio audience at the time was very progressive and years ahead of the rest of the country. LA radio was where things happened and KROQ was at the forefront. It was another world to be able to drive around LA and listen to this fresh music on KROQ...nowhere else in the country could you do that. Eventually, over time, other stations on the coasts picked up the modern rock format, but KROQ's influence in breaking new music remained. They had a great 20 year run, before things deteriorated into what we have today. It happens to all pioneering stations, but it shouldn't be forgotten as to the influence they had in the music industry. They were truly world famous.

LA radio in the 90's and the first decade of the 2000's may have had an exceptional Alt station, based on the ability of KROQ in the prior decade to actually create a format out of a musical alternative to the by then traditional Abrams et. al. "superstars" and similar AOR programming and artist array.

But LA did not have much else in English language radio that was "exceptional". Sure, there were good stations like KIIS that were able to use the nation's richest radio market to do great promotions and to hire great jocks. KRTH was similar in using the high billings to also promote well and have a terrific airstaff. It was the market where, at the end of the 80's, the Smooth Jazz format originated but that was replicated in dozens of larger markets.

But at the same time, the Hispanic population was growing intensely, reaching a point where in 18-49 over half the population is in that ethnic group. And the growth of all ethnic populations and foreign born first generation residents got us to the current nearly 70%. Not a fertile ground for alternative rock.

KROQ was a good station for a fairly long time, but hardly world famous.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio TSL peaked in 1989. From there on, it declined. That's what I was referring to.

But the change between 1989 to the point of introduction of the PPM was minimal, and much of the change had to do with improvements and changes in the methodology of Arbitron... just as we saw with the introduction of the PPM and the resultant huge reduction in TSL.

And that's just it: the PPM may not have been the iceberg to radio's Titanic, but combined with a recession and the introduction of the smart phone, we had a perfect storm. TSL, stable within a tiny percentage for over 20 years, suddenly disintegrated.

And the effects of the PPM were broader than just reduced TSL. Because the PPM showed lots of secondary listening that people did not remember to write in their diary, stations with narrow cumes like Smooth Jazz died; the stacking order of the top stations changed significantly.

 

[TheBigA]

And the effects of the PPM were broader than just reduced TSL. Because the PPM showed lots of secondary listening that people did not remember to write in their diary, stations with narrow cumes like Smooth Jazz died; the stacking order of the top stations changed significantly.

Getting back to the 2 minute breaks, the use of 4-5 breaks an hour changed to 3 an hour in the 90s and stayed that way until PPMs encouraged the use of 2 breaks an hour. So it's been 30 years since stations have had 4-5 breaks an hour. In my view, even if those breaks last 2 minutes, they will adversely affect AQH. Now if KROQ is doing 2 minutes of commercials total per hour, they might have something.

 

[adradio]

Probably a different discussion, but considering radio is local, the only people who care about an outside market station would be industry people or people with a deep interest in a particular music genre. There's probably no such thing as a world famous radio station in the grand scheme. But amongst industry people, there are clearly stations that are creative, do something unique, develop a pioneering lineage and become heritage stations. Off the top of my head, stations like WSM, Nashville, CKLW, Windsor Ontario, KSFO, San Francisco, WDIA, Memphis etc. would fit the bill. There are clearly many othes. I would include KROQ with that group.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

What the hell. I was listening to kroq today and they played circles by post malone. It's a fine song but doesn't belong on an alt station. Alt 98.7 doesn't play it. Mike the show killer is effing up already.

 

[TheBigA]

It's a fine song but doesn't belong on an alt station.

Says who? Look at Post in his face and tell him he's not alt. I dare you.

Playing by the rules, this station get's a 1 share. So why should they play by the rules anymore?

 

[hotpatrick2004]

I stand by what I said circles by post malone doesn't belong on a alternative rock station. Ya know what I did after that I switched the station to alt 98.7 and didn't go back all day.

It's not even slightly alternative.

As an alternative rock station your product is the killers not post malone. As an alternative station your product is the 1975 not post malone. As an alternative rock station your product is Kenny hoopla not post malone.

And if you can't get numbers playing the music in the format well switch formats.

Dumb just dumb

 

[TheBigA]

And if you can't get numbers playing the music in the format well switch formats

Seems to me that's what they've done. They're not calling themselves Alt, are they? They're K-ROQ. They're playing whatever they want.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Seems to me that's what they've done. They're not calling themselves Alt, are they? They're K-ROQ. They're playing whatever they want.

Except for the most occasional of tune-ins, I haven't listened to KROQ in years as I feel there hasn't been any decent Alt product in at least two decades. I suppose I have aged out of the demo; so be it. I only mention this as I do not know of KROQs problems firsthand, just by what I read here and elsewhere. But it seems like KROQ has been wandering without direction for several years now, which has only been accelerated by the departure of Kevin Weatherly and the demise of the Kevin and Bean show, the formula for success for so many years.

I empathize with hotpat and his devotion to the format as he envisions it. In the mid eighties I was a teenager witnessing firsthand the demise of my favorite radio station, KMET. AOR was still not yet dead, but the station that helped bring about the entire format, the Mighty Met, was dying its own premature death because they were losing big to KLOS and the recently added KLSX (first station devoted to "classic rock" as an identifiable format) and the desperation was obvious because towards the end, you could see radical changes to the playlist on a nearly weekly basis. I knew the end was near when they started mixing in Cyndi Lauper records. Really. Soon the station was put out of its misery in 1987, but only after a painful two years beforehand as the station became an embarrassing shadow of itself.

I am beginning to think we are witnessing a similar phenomenon with KROQ.

 

[TheBigA]

I am beginning to think we are witnessing a similar phenomenon with KROQ.

Maybe. Something has to change. They can't keep doing what they'd done before, because it clearly wasn't working. KROQ isn't the same without Kevin & Bean, so just playing the same music is a waste of time. I doubt people were listening because of the great and exciting music, because as you say, the best years of alternative music have passed. So why not latch on to something else? When you're already at a 1 share, what do you have to lose? There IS some great and exciting music being made, and it has demonstrated it can attract a consensus audience. That's what radio does. That's what it's supposed to do. If it doesn't fit in someone else's category, so what?