What is kroq gonna do?

[TheBigA]

It's a bit of a circular argument. Record labels KNOW that a Classic Rock station won't add anything new. AAA formats are almost non existent in the commercial realm. That doesn't leave much opportunity for AAA type artists to get airplay...

But this is a thread about KROQ, which is neither classic rock, nor AAA. KROQ once had a very willing partner in record labels to develop new artists. The record labels don't do that any more. They just ship music to Spotify and Pandora, and hope that people will somehow discover them. I don't understand how they expect that to work. But they save a lot of money, which makes their foreign owners very happy.

 

[b-turner]

How much of a problem are the various sources available for exposing new music and the lack of ability to assemble the masses to a centralized spot for exposure. At one time radio was the way to reach the masses. Now you have all these non-radio venues certain percentages of people use to get their new music. Is this lack of a common source or two creating a problem finding awareness and consensus?

 

[TheBigA]

Is this lack of a common source or two creating a problem finding awareness and consensus?

Of course. It has returned the music business to what it was in the 19th century. If you watched the PBS Country Music documentary, the music business was once very fragmented. Music stayed in its geographic area. Then radio came along and songs could be heard nationally instantly. The fact that there was one place to go made it easy. Now it's returned to a very non-central approach. Sure you're on Spotify, but where? Radio makes it easy, and for people who don't have a lot of time, that's important.

Both Pandora & Spotify have hired former radio PDs to try and bring some of the organization to streaming. That's what Kevin Weatherly is supposed to do now. But consumers don't use streaming the way they use radio. So these people create these radio-like boxes within the platform that hardly ever get used. One of the ideas behind the Liberty interest in iHeart is to find a way to bring those things together.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

tbolt909 seems to think radio is to blame for everything. I hear that year after year for 4+ decades now. It is, in my opinion, a comment by someone who has failed to think things through. You can rest assured if the new music you speak of tested well and was universally liked by the target audience it would be played. There's lots of great music out there that never sees the light of day. I never got it when a major label would issue a superb, commercially viable album and never do as much as tell you about it or at least the rep that is trying to get you to order their product for that retail store or get you to add their songs to your station's playlist. It happened was too frequently.

Radio stations are businesses and spend a great deal of money to maximize listening because that turns in to dollars. Granted mistakes are made. Just look at what Coca Cola did with New Coke. I'm not saying every radio station made the right decision always but rather that the intent was always to do the best for the station. That will always be until we perfect humanity to be error free. It sure was not because nobody cared enough. Radio stations have employees that are paid to make the company money. You can bet they like getting a paycheck and having a job so they do whatever they can to keep that position.

I can guarantee you ownership down cares very deeply about their holdings and their performance.

Funny thing, there would never have been a change if things were working. It seems KROQ's glory days have vanished for now. Then again I loved KROQ in the album rock days, pre-alternative. Times change and all that great talent had to let that vaporize to a pleasant memory.

It is always amazing to me how on radio discussion board that is run by and posted to by radio professionals, radio is never blamed for its own ills or that of the music it plays.

 

[TheBigA]

It is always amazing to me how on radio discussion board that is run by and posted to by radio professionals, radio is never blamed for its own ills or that of the music it plays.

Blame? You want someone to get blamed? People get fired. People lose money. You think no one gets blamed?

 

[davideduardo]

It is always amazing to me how on radio discussion board that is run by and posted to by radio professionals, radio is never blamed for its own ills or that of the music it plays.

Radio is part art and part business.

Format searches are based not only on attracting audience but salability of the audience if the format is successful.

The "art" part means that some lack of predictability exists. If you look at Van Gogh and Pissarro, it is likely that most people know who Van Gogh was but few know of Pissarro. Now, I like Pissarro better.... maybe because he lived in the Caribbean... but if I had used that judgement to open an art gallery a century ago, I would have died a pauper.

Same goes for radio formats. Some, despite all the seeming guarantees of success, don't work. They either go on as second tier formats or they change.

That is not the fault of radio pros... it is part of any endeavor that is based part on art, on taste, on the moment in time.

Another example is disco. Not predictable, but an instant success once a station took a risk on what seemed to be the next big thing. But then, just a few years later, the format and the music was essentially dead. Unpredictable, un-researchable.

The music, of course, is not radio's creation. Look at the problems with Alt recently: fragmented and less overall appeal. Who would have thought it would disintegrate as a genre and, thus, as a format? Radio reflects taste, but does not make it.

So.... don't blame the messenger.

 

[macattack]

The funny part is when I talk to the labels about this, they say exactly the same thing. They know the music they make is fragmenting the audience, but they don't know what to do about it.

My solution would be to do what country music has done: Focus on a core group of songs and artists. Build a group of current superstars around which you can build a radio format. Just one format, not four. Start small, then expand. Get rid of Active Rock, Mainstream Rock, Alternative Rock, and Metal. Just one. Build superstars, allow co-mingling of other artists with the superstars, tour the combined big and small acts as packages, build festivals around those groups, and see how the audience responds. It has worked amazingly for country music. What was once a small regional format is now one of the biggest and most profitable genres. Compare Stagecoach with Coachella. Country did it by working together as partners. But it HAS to be done by the music business. Someone has to take the lead. The heads of the labels are all accountants and lawyers. There's your problem.

Actually, this may be a factor (not the only one, the big one is the Rizzuto Show and its stellar performance) as to why KPNT (yes, them again) is doing the best of all the Alternative stations in pure shares. They are essentially a Combined Rock station, as they give airtime to Alternative, Active, and AAA artists (although AAA has the the roughest time getting traction on the station, usually it's only AAA/Alt crossovers that make it onto KPNT's rotation). They effectively act as all of rock is one format.

For example, KPNT's adds this week were:

Arkells - "Years In The Making". A Canadian alternative rock band (their closest US equivalent is Imagine Dragons), this song smashed on the Canadian rock charts and they're trying to cross over into the US.
Pretty Reckless - "Death By Rock N Roll". This song is EXPLODING on Active right now with 20+ adds two weeks in a row on the MB Active panel.
Machine Gun Kelly - "Bloody Valentine". Yes, THAT Machine Gun Kelly. He's releasing a punk album. This song surprisingly isn't awful.

Rotation:

Heavies: Black Keys "Shine A Little Light", Killers "Caution", Grouplove "Deleter", AWOLNATION "The Best" (recurrent), Twenty-One Pilots "Level Of Concern".

Medium-heavies: Shinedown "Atlas Falls", White Reaper "Real Long Time", Blue October "Oh My My", lovelytheband "loneliness for love", KennyHoopla "how will i rest in peace...", Cage the Elephant "Black Madonna", The Glorious Sons "Closer to the Sky", Weezer "Hero".

Medium-lights: Highly Suspect "These Days", The Strokes "Bad Decisions", AJR "Bang!", Palaye Royale "Lonely", Airborne Toxic Event "Come On Out", Cold War Kids "Who's Gonna Love Me Now?", Dreamers "Heat Seeker feat. Grandson", Glass Animals "Your Love (Deja Vu)", AWOLNATION "Mayday! Fiesta Fever", Lumineers "The Salt And the Sea".

Lights: Chaz Cardigan "Not OK!", Bad Wolves "Zombie" (recurrent), Imagine Dragons "Natural" (recurrent), Blue October "I Hope You're Happy" (recurrent), Imagine Dragons "Whatever It Takes" (recurrent), Matt Maeson "Hallucinogenics", Tame Impala "Lost In Yesterday", Biffy Clyro "Instant History", plus the three adds.

KROQ's adds, in comparison:

Billie Eilish - "ilomilo". The 5th single from her smash album.
Wallows - "Are You Bored Yet?" This song got rolling on TikTok and they're re-sending it to radio after it initially flopped last year.

KROQ's rotation:

Heavies: Powfu "Coffee For Your Head", Twenty-One Pilots "Level of Concern", AJR "Bang!", Tame Impala "Lost In Yesterday", 24KGoldn "City of Angels", Ashe "Moral of the Story", Dayglow "Can I Call You Tonight?", Flume "The Difference feat. Toro Y Mi", Matt Maeson "Hallucinogenics", Killers, "Caution"

Medium-heavies: Foster The People "Sit Next To Me" (recurrent), Dominic Fike "3 Nights" (recurrent), KennyHoopla "how will I rest in peace...", Absofacto "Dissolve" (recurrent), Bakar "Hell N Back"

Medium-lights: Billie Eilish "everything i wanted" (recurrent), Lana Del Rey "Doin' Time" (recurrent), Machine Gun Kelly "Bloody Valentine", Post Malone "Circles", Billie Eilish "bad guy" (recurrent), Guardin "alive", Shaed "Trampoline" (recurrent)

Lights: Panic at the Disco "High Hopes" (recurrent), Post Malone "Come As You Are (Live)", Cold War Kids "Who's Gonna Love Me Now?", Post Malone "Heart-Shaped Box (Live)", Head and the Heart "Honeybee", Major Lazer "Lean On feat. DJ Snake" and "Lay Your Head On Me feat. Marcus Mumford". There's a bunch of other songs they dropped recently that are in this range too until their final plays leave Mediabase's database.

Who's doing the better job of presenting new rock music, regardless of where it comes from, to the listener? Who has the greater variety?

The music is definitely not the only factor but there's no way it's not a factor, period. KPNT seems to agree with your idea that rock needs to unite as a format. KROQ is looking like a bizarro pop station. About the only thing KPNT can be dinged for IMO is the lack of female vocals in their currents (only Pretty Reckless atm), but they have been a heavy supporter of Billie Eilish and Meg Myers in recent years, so female vocals are not a foreign concept to them.

 

[TheBigA]

Who's doing the better job of presenting new rock music, regardless of where it comes from, to the listener? Who has the greater variety?

It's a process. For the first time in a while, KROQ is trying something new. That's a good thing.

The thing about KROQ is most of the musicians they play live in LA, not St. Louis.

 

[macattack]

It's a process. For the first time in a while, KROQ is trying something new. That's a good thing.

The thing about KROQ is most of the musicians they play live in LA, not St. Louis.

Weezer is from LA and KPNT is playing "Hero" about 30 times a week and KROQ hasn't even added it yet.

 

[TheBigA]

Weezer is from LA and KPNT is playing "Hero" about 30 times a week and KROQ hasn't even added it yet.

They're not competing against KPNT. They're competing against KYSR, and KYSR has it in light.

 

[radiojomo]

Been listening to KROQ a lot recently - the station is sounding great. I am rooting for them! The key here is going to be grabbing that Gen Z/Millennial audience back from KYSR, Spotify and other sources. Mornings are going to be critical for that. Looks like they are adding another cast member to mornings: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/1867697088

Btw, I'm sure Mike Kaplan or someone else from Entercom reads this board. Good job! Lol...

 

[macattack]

They're not competing against KPNT. They're competing against KYSR, and KYSR has it in light.

I think we had a miscommunication somewhere, because I did not mean to imply that they were in competition with KPNT. I was just pointing out that it's interesting you say that KPNT is St. Louis-centric when they're playing a major LA artist that KROQ is ignoring.

Weezer isn't the only LA artist being snubbed by KROQ right now. Grouplove, AWOLNATION, and The Airborne Toxic Event are all LA-based artists that KROQ is currently snubbing yet are finding play in St. Louis of all places. Interestingly, KYSR did increase Grouplove's plays as of late, perhaps as a reaction to KROQ's recent changes.

More entertainingly, KROQ added All Time Low's "Monsters", but when KYSR added it KROQ dropped it like a hot potato. KROQ also dropped Grouplove when KYSR made it a heavy. I am not sure letting your crosstown rival live in your head rent-free is a good strategy for Kaplan and KROQ but it is rather amusing.

 

[TheBigA]

I think we had a miscommunication somewhere, because I did not mean to imply that they were in competition with KPNT. I was just pointing out that it's interesting you say that KPNT is St. Louis-centric when they're playing a major LA artist that KROQ is ignoring.

I didn't say "KPNT is St. Louis-centric." I said they're programming to two different markets, with different competitors, and different heritage.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Radio reflects taste, but does not make it.

That's true of today's big commercial radio stations. They are completely research-driven as you point out almost daily. Songs don't get played unless they test well. Naturally this works extremely well for gold driven formats, and those that cater to audiences who are musically risk-averse and crave familiarity such as a mainstream A/C format.

I would argue that some of the greatest radio stations in history were trendsetters that did not merely reflect taste though, they made it. "The world-famous KROQ" is world famous for exactly that reason. It earned its fame a station that broke new music and defied conventional format rules. In essence, that's what rock & roll is all about, so the station actually reflected what the format stood for which was definitely not about playing things safe.

The reason rock and alternative radio stations are so stale and boring these days is that they are programmed from the top down by corporate leaders who are too scared to take a chance on anything. The music has to test well, and it won't test well if it's new and unfamiliar. So you end up hearing the same Red Hot Chili Peppers songs you've heard every week for the past 25 years and label it "alternative." It's no wonder rock radio is dying. You say it's because the rock genre is fragmented, and back it up by pointing to testing. Well KROQ in the 80s played new music that crossed format boundaries that would never be allowed today. The great stations of this era were not programmed by machines, but by people with true musical intuition who were allowed to make it happen. You can't find a groundbreaking commercial FM station with that kind of buzz today because consolidation has homogenized it away. What works for A/C is very effective for most passive-listening music formats but it has sucked the soul out of new music, especially rock.

 

[TheBigA]

"The world-famous KROQ" is world famous for exactly that reason. It earned its fame a station that broke new music and defied conventional format rules. In essence, that's what rock & roll is all about, so the station actually reflected what the format stood for which was definitely not about playing things safe.

I agree with all that, but what happens when the music that drives all that becomes redundant and provincial, rather than exciting, dynamic, and revolutionary? With all of the technology available today, there is potential for music bypassing radio completely. The problem is that when it does, it misses the chance off having an impact. The music of the 60s or the 90s weren't just great, but they had an impact. The way you have an impact is you reach more than just a core base. That's not because of radio, but because the people who make the music no longer aspire to have that kind of massive impact. The musicians who have larger aspirations are the ones radio is turning to now. They will be the next generation of American rock. There are people in radio who DON'T just look to play it safe, who take chances and add lots of new music and new artists every day. They work in partnership with artists and labels to reach masses of listeners, and ultimately filling stadiums with fans. That's the spirit that used to drive rock & roll, but is there no more, mostly because the music industry stopped investing in it.

 

[michael hagerty]

I agree with all that, but what happens when the music that drives all that becomes redundant and provincial, rather than exciting, dynamic, and revolutionary? With all of the technology available today, there is potential for music bypassing radio completely. The problem is that when it does, it misses the chance off having an impact. The music of the 60s or the 90s weren't just great, but they had an impact. The way you have an impact is you reach more than just a core base. That's not because of radio, but because the people who make the music no longer aspire to have that kind of massive impact. The musicians who have larger aspirations are the ones radio is turning to now. They will be the next generation of American rock. There are people in radio who DON'T just look to play it safe, who take chances and add lots of new music and new artists every day. They work in partnership with artists and labels to reach masses of listeners, and ultimately filling stadiums with fans. That's the spirit that used to drive rock & roll, but is there no more, mostly because the music industry stopped investing in it.

Again, we need a "like" button on this forum.

It's what Bill Drake said to Ron Jacobs in an interview 20 or so years ago about the launch of KHJ as "Boss Radio": "Thank God we had the Beatles, the Beach Boys and Motown. Can you imagine if we'd started KHJ in the John Denver era? We'd have been f***ed."

And Bill should know. Eight and a half years later, with many of the same people, he tried to get K-100 off the ground---with John Denver, Helen Reddy and the DeFranco Family.

Eventually, the music lets the format down, either cyclically (Guy Zapoleon's Music Cycle Theory) or when the type of music loses its relevance permanently. KROQ's caught so many waves over the last 47 years---especially the last 30. Surf's just not up anymore.

 

[davideduardo]

The music has to test well, and it won't test well if it's new and unfamiliar. So you end up hearing the same Red Hot Chili Peppers songs you've heard every week for the past 25 years and label it "alternative."

This is a common misconception.

No station tests new music. You can't. All kinds of ways of predicting hits have been tried, and none has worked.

Until the average listener has heard a song somewhere between 5 and 7 times a song is not familiar enough to accurately test. For most stations, given the frequency of current airplay and the length of listening, that means around 3 or 4 weeks of play go by before any valid indication of a song's "hitness" is revealed.

So when programmers add a new song, it's all gut feel for weeks. Sure, we look at other markets where PDs we trust have perhaps added the song before we did. And we now can look at initial views or plays online. But we still don't know if a song works for our listeners for weeks.

And only then can we test it. When we do, the first read is often only tentative, and we need another cycle to see how it moves.

With today's economy, most stations have suspended research. And even if we had the money, we could not trust the results during a period when people are under strange conditions of life.

But the fact is, there is no way of testing a new release that works.

 

[TheBigA]

So when programmers add a new song, it's all gut feel for weeks.

However, typically there is streaming information they can access. In some formats, the label promo department provides research information to influence the PD. It's not an accident. The way programmers explain it is "Adding new music is an investment." It's an investment in the song, the artist, and the fan base. It usually involved a 3 month commitment to a song. It's not done by accident. It's done with purpose. As I said, in most formats, the relationship between radio and records is a partnership. There are two sides to the process of adding new songs. Its not just radio.

 

[radiojomo]

Looks like KROQ has added the "Two Minute Promise"

https://kroq.radio.com/blogs/radiocom-staff/the-2minutepromise-more-music-less-commercials

Does anyone know if these promotions end up working?

 

[MarkW]

Alt 92.3 in New York did see some improvement in AQH share (probably TSL driven) after adopting a similar strategy.