What is the dance demo?

[willcalder]

I would say 18-34 is the general target demo, generally gender neutral, with perhaps a slight female edge (55/45 at most, perhaps less). That would generally be the range if your going for more of a mass appeal or commercial dance station. Going for more of the underground or harder edged dance, it leans more male.

I also think it's worth pointing out that most internet stations probably skew more male than female at this point only because statistics show that men are drawn to newer technology before females, although I do believe this trend is starting to change. While most iPhone lines a few weeks ago were male dominated, we're starting to see more and more of our lady friends want a piece of the action too.

 

[Dancerev889]

I dont think the gender issue works against the format, I think the format works against itself. Just look at the argument of what is a dance record. Fans of this format sometimes have this elitist attitude that if you are a pop artist, there is no way in hell you could have a dance record.

Remember there are more dance stations now then there have been in a long time. Plus the Top 40 stations are playing more dance records at one time, then they have in a long time. I know personally, I talk to a lot of female listeners and see them adding dance records to their myspace page. In the next few years I think you will see more of an impact to the female population. I program for the ladies. You get the ladies, you will get the males.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I think stations like I-party and C-895 and Z88.9 do a good job to appealing to average listeners, they have a good rotation of popular established artists doing alot of Dance and Dance friendly records.. Lately ive notice KNRJ does this too, and then KVBE does a good job of being a spanish friendly station, important in that area. The only problem is their signal... Speaken of weak signals KNRJ is getting a new stick thats abotu 40 miles closer to phoenix, that will help alot. The new stick is going to be on a flame thrower about 30 miles north of Phoenix. Why discrminate against a mainstream artist doing a dance friendly song.

 

[japerry]

I'm another one of those 20-somethings, don't party that much, don't do drugs, straight as an arrow, and love hands-up trance, vocal trance, etc. I don't say 'dance music' because I loathe the music that usually makes up 80% of c89.5's, KNGY, KNRJs playlist.

The format definitely likes to work against itself. C89.5 is a great example. Most people in the raver community do NOT listen to c89. Why? because in their opinion, 95% of its crap. nwtekno.org has a few threads related to c89.5. Its not just recently either, its been the same for years. They usually listen to Electrobox, Nocturnal Transmission, Vortex.. daytime programming and all the other shows are worthless to them.

On the otherhand, c89's DJ Tamm complains about people who listen during the day requesting house during his trance show. Some people don't get the genre differences. I don't listen to dance radio as much anymore except for Z103.5 drive@5 and the rest are subgenres online. I don't know how well a station would do playing 100% electronic and little pop-remixes... it'd make the raver kiddies happy, but since you can't have ads for E, coke, and pot, I don't see how they can make money.

Its funny to hear a station play a Cascada track, followed by some slow house/pop beat. Somehow people think since their both classified 'dance music' that they're similar genres.. *caugh* I'm looking at you RJD ... who CANNOT Mix worth sh*t -- Cascada --> ESTELLE --> Madonna -- >DHT ? Totally horrible! at least freakin mix similar subgenres together!. one is upbeat and energetic, while the other is slower and more repetitive. Dj DannyD (z103.5) does a much better job of this, dividing out his mix into different genres that work together and keeping consistency. But both of you guys have a problem of repetition, it seems like you play the same 20 songs for weeks on end--but thats the problem with radio, it expects that people don't listen every day.

 

[Dancerev889]

I'm another one of those 20-somethings, don't party that much, don't do drugs, straight as an arrow, and love hands-up trance, vocal trance, etc. I don't say 'dance music' because I loathe the music that usually makes up 80% of c89.5's, KNGY, KNRJs playlist.

The format definitely likes to work against itself. C89.5 is a great example. Most people in the raver community do NOT listen to c89. Why? because in their opinion, 95% of its crap. nwtekno.org has a few threads related to c89.5. Its not just recently either, its been the same for years. They usually listen to Electrobox, Nocturnal Transmission, Vortex.. daytime programming and all the other shows are worthless to them.

On the otherhand, c89's DJ Tamm complains about people who listen during the day requesting house during his trance show. Some people don't get the genre differences. I don't listen to dance radio as much anymore except for Z103.5 drive@5 and the rest are subgenres online. I don't know how well a station would do playing 100% electronic and little pop-remixes... it'd make the raver kiddies happy, but since you can't have ads for E, coke, and pot, I don't see how they can make money.

Its funny to hear a station play a Cascada track, followed by some slow house/pop beat. Somehow people think since their both classified 'dance music' that they're similar genres.. *caugh* I'm looking at you RJD ... who CANNOT Mix worth sh*t -- Cascada --> ESTELLE --> Madonna -- >DHT ? Totally horrible! at least freakin mix similar subgenres together!. one is upbeat and energetic, while the other is slower and more repetitive. Dj DannyD (z103.5) does a much better job of this, dividing out his mix into different genres that work together and keeping consistency. But both of you guys have a problem of repetition, it seems like you play the same 20 songs for weeks on end--but thats the problem with radio, it expects that people don't listen every day.

What a hater! First off lets first example what radio is. Its called broadcasting not narrow casting. C895 goes for mass appeal. Yeah lets make a station one beat. That gets boring. Ravers want underground and that doesnt work on radio. C895 is a successful station and their formula works. If you want underground listen to an internet station that plays that music.

 

[technodj]

What a hater! First off lets first example what radio is. Its called broadcasting not narrow casting. C895 goes for mass appeal. Yeah lets make a station one beat. That gets boring. Ravers want underground and that doesnt work on radio. C895 is a successful station and their formula works. If you want underground listen to an internet station that plays that music.

Switch "raver commnunity" to "dance music community", then Mr. Perry has a good point. Someone earlier stated that the dance music format itself is what is working against it. But who is molding the dance music format? There's a reason CHR stations are picking up Cascada and Madonna. There's a reason dance music stations are failing. Could it be they keep missing the target and ending up on the fringe? Think about it.

 

[japerry]

What a hater! First off lets first example what radio is. Its called broadcasting not narrow casting. C895 goes for mass appeal. Yeah lets make a station one beat. That gets boring. Ravers want underground and that doesn't work on radio. C895 is a successful station and their formula works. If you want underground listen to an internet station that plays that music.

You totally missed my point. My point is that C89.5 is not a raver station, its catered to those who listen to stations like KISS 106.1 and MOVIN 92.5 in Seattle. Thats not a bad or good thing, it just is. I even said that the underground radio movement isn't going to work on a commercial setting, and belongs on the internet.

I don't really have any gripes with c89.5, we're lucky to have the shows that exist now, and I hope they don't go anywhere. There are only two things I wish they'd improve on. 1) since they're a non-com station, it'd be nice if they played more non-billboard tracks. Ever since becoming a reporter on dance, those tracks have slipped away. Instead of being a leader in playing new dance tracks, they're usually months behind. Example: Cascada - Faded. The other issue I find with c89.5 is that the drive@5 has moved from a good mix of different dance, house, and vocal trance into a consistent recipe of house/pop every day except for the few commercial trance tracks (like cascada) that RJD trys to mix in. I would love to see the drive@5 sound a little better, similar to how z1035 does it. But when the DJ isn't getting paid, I guess quality isn't something we should demand.

 

[mannyworks00]

Good luck selling advertising......no offense; but corporate sponsors/advertisers would never consider that type of demo response. They want specifics and they want to know you can pull that demo you say. I speak from experience.

#1 18-34 persons
#2 25-49 persons

We target a global audience. Gender/preference is not considered.

 

[theedger]

Good luck selling advertising......no offense; but corporate sponsors/advertisers would never consider that type of demo response. They want specifics and they want to know you can pull that demo you say. I speak from experience.

#1 18-34 persons
#2 25-49 persons

We target a global audience. Gender/preference is not considered.

What u talkin' about Willis?

The dance target demo is #1 18-34 and #2 25-49. Those are the people who listen to dance music.
As a station, we don't target Male/Female or Straight/Gay. We welcome all. Based on our 2007 survey, we were on point. Others may choose to take a different approach. There's enough listeners for all of us.

 

[Dancerev889]

What a hater! First off lets first example what radio is. Its called broadcasting not narrow casting. C895 goes for mass appeal. Yeah lets make a station one beat. That gets boring. Ravers want underground and that doesn't work on radio. C895 is a successful station and their formula works. If you want underground listen to an internet station that plays that music.

You totally missed my point. My point is that C89.5 is not a raver station, its catered to those who listen to stations like KISS 106.1 and MOVIN 92.5 in Seattle. Thats not a bad or good thing, it just is. I even said that the underground radio movement isn't going to work on a commercial setting, and belongs on the internet.

I don't really have any gripes with c89.5, we're lucky to have the shows that exist now, and I hope they don't go anywhere. There are only two things I wish they'd improve on. 1) since they're a non-com station, it'd be nice if they played more non-billboard tracks. Ever since becoming a reporter on dance, those tracks have slipped away. Instead of being a leader in playing new dance tracks, they're usually months behind. Example: Cascada - Faded. The other issue I find with c89.5 is that the drive@5 has moved from a good mix of different dance, house, and vocal trance into a consistent recipe of house/pop every day except for the few commercial trance tracks (like cascada) that RJD trys to mix in. I would love to see the drive@5 sound a little better, similar to how z1035 does it. But when the DJ isn't getting paid, I guess quality isn't something we should demand.

Cascada's Faded just was released by Robbins. They werent late they were waiting for the US label to release it. We need to support the US labels. An internet station playing imports is fine and from time to time a broadcasting station doing that is ok too. However, we need to help the labels sell singles because the more they sell the better the product is going to be. Again I will go back to my original point. They are a broadcasting station going for mass appeal thats radio. Z103.5 is not a US station. The US market is completely different than our foreign friends. You can have all the issues you want with this station but they are oldest dance station still playing currents. They raise over $100,000 during their pledge drives and they are well respected in the industry. Speaking as a non-com, I hate the fact that people think we need to play things differently. Screw that! My station just made the Aribitron book for the first time. I want tons of listeners not just a handful. I want to compete with the big commercial stations and I think C89.5 is doing that and doing it well. You need to play familiar songs to get people to listen to your station period!

 

[mannyworks00]

lol when you said willis -- the exact first thing that came to mind was Chris Willis' manager's pictures that marc mysterio was barking about. I personally thought the pictures were very funny. Whoa! anyway -- oh yea, goodluck selling advertising. Advertisers want to know who you are targeting and often times their products are meant for specific demographics such as (male or female and sometimes even race) and they will want to see that data if they are to spend money on your station. Im just saying target all the "broad audience" you want Some demographics are drawn to dance more than others whether we're willing to admit it or not.A certain Genius at KNGY truly understands that, kudos to them, they really know what their bread and butter is .. I wish more fm stations would learn from them -- they have a good business model.

Good luck selling advertising......no offense; but corporate sponsors/advertisers would never consider that type of demo response. They want specifics and they want to know you can pull that demo you say. I speak from experience.

#1 18-34 persons
#2 25-49 persons

We target a global audience. Gender/preference is not considered.

What u talkin' about Willis?

The dance target demo is #1 18-34 and #2 25-49. Those are the people who listen to dance music.
As a station, we don't target Male/Female or Straight/Gay. We welcome all. Based on our 2007 survey, we were on point. Others may choose to take a different approach. There's enough listeners for all of us.

 

[mannyworks00]

ummm hi Jakob. Im probably the last person you want to talk to but ............. I think you should cut c89 some slack for trying to be a "commercial dance station" -- not a raver station. I equal modern day dance with Disco back in the day when it was mainstream. You have your commercial -- and you have your underground. If you want underground, then go listen to an underground internet station. Why the hostility? anyway it's not like moodance was ever that* underground.

I'm another one of those 20-somethings, don't party that much, don't do drugs, straight as an arrow, and love hands-up trance, vocal trance, etc. I don't say 'dance music' because I loathe the music that usually makes up 80% of c89.5's, KNGY, KNRJs playlist.

The format definitely likes to work against itself. C89.5 is a great example. Most people in the raver community do NOT listen to c89. Why? because in their opinion, 95% of its crap. nwtekno.org has a few threads related to c89.5. Its not just recently either, its been the same for years. They usually listen to Electrobox, Nocturnal Transmission, Vortex.. daytime programming and all the other shows are worthless to them.

On the otherhand, c89's DJ Tamm complains about people who listen during the day requesting house during his trance show. Some people don't get the genre differences. I don't listen to dance radio as much anymore except for Z103.5 drive@5 and the rest are subgenres online. I don't know how well a station would do playing 100% electronic and little pop-remixes... it'd make the raver kiddies happy, but since you can't have ads for E, coke, and pot, I don't see how they can make money.

Its funny to hear a station play a Cascada track, followed by some slow house/pop beat. Somehow people think since their both classified 'dance music' that they're similar genres.. *caugh* I'm looking at you RJD ... who CANNOT Mix worth sh*t -- Cascada --> ESTELLE --> Madonna -- >DHT ? Totally horrible! at least freakin mix similar subgenres together!. one is upbeat and energetic, while the other is slower and more repetitive. Dj DannyD (z103.5) does a much better job of this, dividing out his mix into different genres that work together and keeping consistency. But both of you guys have a problem of repetition, it seems like you play the same 20 songs for weeks on end--but thats the problem with radio, it expects that people don't listen every day.

 

[technodj]

My station just made the Aribitron book for the first time. I want tons of listeners not just a handful. I want to compete with the big commercial stations and I think C89.5 is doing that and doing it well. You need to play familiar songs to get people to listen to your station period!

Period... Are you sure? No. All this states is your ego is the size of Texas and you wish to feed it more , PERIOD. LOL!

 

[Dancerev889]

My station just made the Aribitron book for the first time. I want tons of listeners not just a handful. I want to compete with the big commercial stations and I think C89.5 is doing that and doing it well. You need to play familiar songs to get people to listen to your station period!

Period... Are you sure? No. All this states is your ego is the size of Texas and you wish to feed it more , PERIOD. LOL!

Now thats funny

 

[Hot96portland]

Did anyone else see the new PPM's for San Fran? Energy took a bit of a hit in all demo's... Hope Flying Bear doesn't knee jerk based on one book...

 

[mannyworks00]

many stations across the board took a hit with the new PPM ratings except Rock and pop stations. This new measuring system is still not accurate because it only tracks (electronically) a "select few" listeners.
The day that FM radio can finally measure EVERY single listener will be the day FM radio dies altogether. As long as KNGY is able to retain their "key demos" -- meaning the demos that keep their advertisers happy, then they are good to go.

 

[capprecords]

Hi Manny,

You are absolutely correct !
I actually just had a luncheon meeting at KNGY yesterday and there's lots of changes going on (besides Don Parker).
Everyone is really "All Shook Up" in the industry at the moment.

The biggest problem we are finding is that most stations are playing a variety of music that doesn't necessarily reflect nor have a support unity with what is happening in our market (i.e. iTunes consumer purchases in dance, trends, etc.).

And you are right- stations should support the US label releases (not just imports) and also not just because the labels are sponsoring the stations (which we all know is payola) but more so because the consumers are voting with their own dollars on iTunes and therefore are proving their worth.

For example, we have had the top 10 dance album on iTunes for 4 months straight and it remains strong at the #5-10 position daily. Even several of our compilation's songs have moved over to the iTunes "Top 5" singles sales charts !

No matter what type of dance promotion you do (radio, club, mobile, etc.), we do recognize & reach out to all types of DJs, Radio, Internet, College, and all age groups. And what we find that will sustain the dance music industry into the future are music consumers who are today in their teens and early 20s.

What I admire about C89 & Fusion is that they just play dance hits in all sub-genres. Such as our original "Fallin Apart" by Sun & Diego feat. Rachel Hiew (which is at #2 on Fusions playlist this week) to C89 playing "Out Of Time" by Rikah (another original) or even "Hound Dog 2008" by our King Junior (which of course is a brilliant dance cover). Whether they are electro commercial house mixes or Hands-Up Techno (ala Cascada style) or even cutting edge Jumpstyle.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that the station PD's support and play strong quality dance productions. This is what keeps consumers from changing the dial and what has proven to work time & again.

8)

Dom

 

[Dancerev889]

Hi Manny,

You are absolutely correct !
I actually just had a luncheon meeting at KNGY yesterday and there's lots of changes going on (besides Don Parker).
Everyone is really "All Shook Up" in the industry at the moment.

The biggest problem we are finding is that most stations are playing a variety of music that doesn't necessarily reflect nor have a support unity with what is happening in our market (i.e. iTunes consumer purchases in dance, trends, etc.).

And you are right- stations should support the US label releases (not just imports) and also not just because the labels are sponsoring the stations (which we all know is payola) but more so because the consumers are voting with their own dollars on iTunes and therefore are proving their worth.

For example, we have had the top 10 dance album on iTunes for 4 months straight and it remains strong at the #5-10 position daily. Even several of our compilation's songs have moved over to the iTunes "Top 5" singles sales charts !

No matter what type of dance promotion you do (radio, club, mobile, etc.), we do recognize & reach out to all types of DJs, Radio, Internet, College, and all age groups. And what we find that will sustain the dance music industry into the future are music consumers who are today in their teens and early 20s.

What I admire about C89 & Fusion is that they just play dance hits in all sub-genres. Such as our original "Fallin Apart" by Sun & Diego feat. Rachel Hiew (which is at #2 on Fusions playlist this week) to C89 playing "Out Of Time" by Rikah (another original) or even "Hound Dog 2008" by our King Junior (which of course is a brilliant dance cover). Whether they are electro commercial house mixes or Hands-Up Techno (ala Cascada style) or even cutting edge Jumpstyle.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that the station PD's support and play strong quality dance productions. This is what keeps consumers from changing the dial and what has proven to work time & again.

8)

Dom

Sponsoring stations? Funny Ive never received a dime from a record label.

 

[mannyworks00]

Hi Dominique,

I have to warn you (if you don't know already) that several nameless people on this board have an ego the size of texas (and they think they know everything) and despite all the topics and arguments about what regresses dance. Our Egos are probably the one sole thing that regresses Dance music because we REFUSE to work together. As a strong Capp supporter and someone who believes Capp records has an impressive marketing strategy. I want to THANK YOU for the kudos and give you a friendly warning that everyone who was ever even perceived as to be self-promoting here has been grilled .. even me..actually there's been about one positive thing said about me here since I joined....but thats ok because im on a mission and I hope you are too...self motivation is the key. WELCOME to the dance board! I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas!
just an FYI -- a lot of dance labels have ears on this board. Just something to keep in mind.

Hi Manny,

You are absolutely correct !
I actually just had a luncheon meeting at KNGY yesterday and there's lots of changes going on (besides Don Parker).
Everyone is really "All Shook Up" in the industry at the moment.

The biggest problem we are finding is that most stations are playing a variety of music that doesn't necessarily reflect nor have a support unity with what is happening in our market (i.e. iTunes consumer purchases in dance, trends, etc.).

And you are right- stations should support the US label releases (not just imports) and also not just because the labels are sponsoring the stations (which we all know is payola) but more so because the consumers are voting with their own dollars on iTunes and therefore are proving their worth.

For example, we have had the top 10 dance album on iTunes for 4 months straight and it remains strong at the #5-10 position daily. Even several of our compilation's songs have moved over to the iTunes "Top 5" singles sales charts !

No matter what type of dance promotion you do (radio, club, mobile, etc.), we do recognize & reach out to all types of DJs, Radio, Internet, College, and all age groups. And what we find that will sustain the dance music industry into the future are music consumers who are today in their teens and early 20s.

What I admire about C89 & Fusion is that they just play dance hits in all sub-genres. Such as our original "Fallin Apart" by Sun & Diego feat. Rachel Hiew (which is at #2 on Fusions playlist this week) to C89 playing "Out Of Time" by Rikah (another original) or even "Hound Dog 2008" by our King Junior (which of course is a brilliant dance cover). Whether they are electro commercial house mixes or Hands-Up Techno (ala Cascada style) or even cutting edge Jumpstyle.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that the station PD's support and play strong quality dance productions. This is what keeps consumers from changing the dial and what has proven to work time & again.

8)

Dom

 

[capprecords]

Many thanks Manny for your insight and Brett (when you get a chance) please e-mail me at [email protected] 8)

"just an FYI -- a lot of dance labels have ears on this board. Just something to keep in mind."

That's great Manny ! I hope everyone is reading this..
Because this is the 1st step of us all coming together and helping each other commercialize dance music !

As we want everyone to succeed: us, you, other artists and labels who support and embrace dance music, dance radio… Everyone in our industry. And you can count on us to continue supporting you with great club releases and strong hit singles in the months & years to come.

Therefore, I invite everyone reading this to contact me directly.
As we are here to help everyone.



Dom