What is the future for classic rock stations?

[88.9 Miracle]

AOR never died, at least the music anyway. It's still being recorded but under a new identity aka Melodic Rock. Many of those bands are still recording as well as many many new AOR/Melodic Rock bands. As a matter of fact, AOR and Melodic Rock still survives in European countries. We find on ClassX Radio that many young people are re-discovering it and loving it. Have you been to a Journey concert lately, or Cheap Trick or Heart. Shoot I saw Ringo for the first time 2 weeks ago and there were as many young folks there (20 and under) as there were old. History has a way of repeating itself and it won't be via AAA. AAA is suffering everywhere because the music is no better than what you hear everywhere on the dial and people are bored by it.

ClassXradio.com has topped 7,000,000 hits in one month with our average over 5,000,000 per month. There are tons of people listening to this format and we are growing.

 

[L Mays]

Classic rock stations will continue to evolve and young it up a little as their audience ages and becomes younger. Interestingly, a lot of kids of classic rock listeners love the music and, if they listened to a radio, they'd probably tune into classic rock stations.

LA's K-Earth is an example of an oldies station that has morphed into a classic rock station which is continuing to to make headway in the LA market. KOLA-FM in Riverside, CA is another example of a classic rock station with great numbers. Both do radio in the style the music was played on stations when the music was released: With jocks talking up to the posts and -- sometimes -- stepping on the lyrics.

The biggest problem I see with classic rock is the biggest problem I have with my personal music collection: I get bored hearing the same thing over and over. But when I dig up something I hadn't heard in a while, I let out an inaudible "ahhhhh."

 

[Talk_Dude]

As long as the suits who run terrestrial radio insist that all music has to be crammed into itty-bitty little pigeonholes with cryptic labels attached, and also insist that once any artist is identified with any one of those itty-bitty little pigeonholes that henceforth and forever everything he ever records can only be played on a station that carries that particular itty-bitty box, terrestrial radio is doomed.

 

[88.9 Miracle]

Classic rock stations will continue to evolve and young it up a little as their audience ages and becomes younger. Interestingly, a lot of kids of classic rock listeners love the music and, if they listened to a radio, they'd probably tune into classic rock stations.

LA's K-Earth is an example of an oldies station that has morphed into a classic rock station which is continuing to to make headway in the LA market. KOLA-FM in Riverside, CA is another example of a classic rock station with great numbers. Both do radio in the style the music was played on stations when the music was released: With jocks talking up to the posts and -- sometimes -- stepping on the lyrics.

The biggest problem I see with classic rock is the biggest problem I have with my personal music collection: I get bored hearing the same thing over and over. But when I dig up something I hadn't heard in a while, I let out an inaudible "ahhhhh."

Agreed with most of what you say. However, I don't consider what you hear on the radio to be Rock (as in Rock & Roll) anymore. The sound of current music has changed dramatically. Therefore, unless Real Rock & Roll returns with new music (such as what we play), Classic Rock as a format IS indeed doomed. Because, like you said, "people get bored hearing the same thing over and over". They would have to change the name from Classic Rock to Classic Crap! At http://classxradio.com, we make people listen all day because of our variety. We've had calls where people don't want to get out of their cars because they might miss what we play next. That's pretty cool. Passion needs to return to radio. If it does, people will listen to more than just 15 minute blocks. They'll tune in all day at work. For us, we've found that variety=passion and passion=listeners.

Look at http://melodicrock.com to see just what is going on in the world of NEW AOR/Melodic Rock releases. It's some great stuff.

 

[TripleAGeek]

Like everyone has said....there is plenty of great music, and hits that got lost in the shuffle.
"Classic Rock" radio has become a sort of history revisionist. Many bands and songs that were part of the "classic rock" era have all but been forgotten, many were very popular in their day. Then you have the argument of "what is classic rock?", for example, the band Chicago finds it way onto "oldies" stations, yet Billy Joel, Elton John are considered classic rock....and then you have a whole slew of bands that rarely find their way onto classic rock: Joe Jackson, Elvis Costello, The Ramones, yet they play The Clash, The Talking Heads, The Police, etc...who draws this line in the sand???? It is that damn line the is gumming up the works, and what's left is AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, and ZZ Top.

That is one thing I've always found incredibly WEIRD about "classic rock" stations - quite a few of the same ones that play Billy Joel/Elton John will also play Chicago, but typically just "25 Or 6 to 4" since it sounds the closest to "rock" than their other popular material. Airplay for The Ramones on such stations tends to be scattered, but if it's there, then it seems to ALWAYS be just two songs - "I Wanna Be Sedated" and "Blitzkrieg Bop" - and yeah Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson get practically NO airplay on such stations

The definition of "classic rock" is already blurry ENOUGH, but songs like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are pushing 20 by now!! So I'm kinda surprised more classic rock stations haven't picked up on '90s material - many '90s stuff from OTHER media (books, TV shows, movies, etc.) have ALREADY faded into nostalgia! Yet rock can't seem to get beyond The Black Crowes and Guns 'N' Roses for what is considered "classic". I'd be curious to know what gets on the bandwagon for "classic rock" for the '90s/early '00s. Nirvana, as I mentioned, is kind of a shoe in IMO, as are Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Smashing Pumpkins, Green Day, Offspring, Incubus, Foo Fighters, Stone Temple Pilots, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, etc. But what of bands like Nine Inch Nails, Beastie Boys, Social Distortion, 311, Sublime, and Weezer?!? Though all 6 of those are and continue to be major players in the "alternative" markets, we gotta keep in mind that the music these bands are influenced by (ska, rap, punk, industrial) aren't typically included in "classic rock", whereas most grunge was heavily influenced by '70s rock (and Green Day and The Offspring are basically like another Clash, so IMO they also count for the "future" of "classic rock").

And then, the "B list" bands of '90s rock get even MORE confusing!! The ones that take immediately after grunge (Bush, Seven Mary Three, Collective Soul, Silverchair, Candlebox, sometimes Soul Asylum) are shoe-ins for being considered "classic rock" - yet the inclusion of:

folk-rock based material (Counting Crows, Wallflowers, Dave Matthews Band)

the "post-hippie" jam bands (Blues Traveler, Big Head Todd and The Monsters, Spin Doctors)

"alternapop" with a SLIGHT influence of '70s rock (Third Eye Blind, Marcy Playground, Harvey Danger, Better than Ezra, Eve 6, Lit, Semisonic, New Radicals, Fastball, Gin Blossoms, MAYBE Barenaked Ladies)

women singer-songwriters (Sheryl Crow and Alanis Morissette being the most prominent, though there are others as well)

"alternapop" that derives more from ska/dance/jazz type music than it does from '70s rock (Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Len, No Doubt, Cake, early Beck, etc.)

British rockers (mostly Oasis and Radiohead, but Blur's "Song 2" also deserves a special mention)

and...ummmm...bands that just didn't FIT anywhere else, but were still popular (The Cranberries)

...are ALLLLL up for debate as to whether or not they'd be considered "classic rock" (and that's just the TIP of the iceberg!!!)

 

[radiobum]

Now that Lee Abrams is out of a job maybe he can re-ruin FM rock radio ! (sorry)

 

[Talk_Dude]

Now that Lee Abrams is out of a job maybe he can re-ruin FM rock radio ! (sorry)

It doesn't have far to go.

 

[2ndsout]

I've been reading through this thread; reading about the past...radio stations gone by the wayside...formats gone and never heard from again.

What would you say if I told you that I know of a show that currently airs; that plays the best in old school "Progressive Rock"...

The best in deep album cuts- (not the "Same Tracks")... Music that is still played off of Vinyl, as well as CD... where the DJ makes the Playlist as he goes along...Progressive Rock in a Progressive Rock Radio Format

Frank Zappa, Styx, Camel, ELP, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Robert Fripp, Peter Gabriel, Renaissance, Starcastle, Peter Hammill, Van Der Graff Generator, Seatrain, Can, Happy the Man, McDonald & Giles, Wishbone Ash....

Do I have your interest and attention?

 

[Talk_Dude]

I've been reading through this thread; reading about the past...radio stations gone by the wayside...formats gone and never heard from again.

What would you say if I told you that I know of a show that currently airs; that plays the best in old school "Progressive Rock"...

The best in deep album cuts- (not the "Same Tracks")... Music that is still played off of Vinyl, as well as CD... where the DJ makes the Playlist as he goes along...Progressive Rock in a Progressive Rock Radio Format

Frank Zappa, Styx, Camel, ELP, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Robert Fripp, Peter Gabriel, Renaissance, Starcastle, Peter Hammill, Van Der Graff Generator, Seatrain, Can, Happy the Man, McDonald & Giles, Wishbone Ash....

Do I have your interest and attention?

You would have my attention, though I'll be terribly disappointed if it turns out that it's some sort of "internet radio" pseudo-station.

 

[2ndsout]

I've been reading through this thread; reading about the past...radio stations gone by the wayside...formats gone and never heard from again.

What would you say if I told you that I know of a show that currently airs; that plays the best in old school "Progressive Rock"...

The best in deep album cuts- (not the "Same Tracks")... Music that is still played off of Vinyl, as well as CD... where the DJ makes the Playlist as he goes along...Progressive Rock in a Progressive Rock Radio Format

Frank Zappa, Styx, Camel, ELP, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Robert Fripp, Peter Gabriel, Renaissance, Starcastle, Peter Hammill, Van Der Graff Generator, Seatrain, Can, Happy the Man, McDonald & Giles, Wishbone Ash....

Do I have your interest and attention?

You would have my attention, though I'll be terribly disappointed if it turns out that it's some sort of "internet radio" pseudo-station.

If you want more info, I can provide that for you.

Then again, if you are the only one interested.. why should I provide info to just one person? No one else has expressed any interest...

I find it interesting that I post this... something that would be a throw-back to the days of old 70s radio--- and 1 reply over a couple of days?

Sounds like a group of people that miss the past, but when someone comes in and says that they have some info... no one else is interested...

okay. Oh well. It was worth a try anyway, right?

 

[Talk_Dude]

If you want more info, I can provide that for you.

No thanks. If you want to post it, post it. If you don't want to, don't.

If it would have taken me more than 15 seconds to type this, I wouldn't have bothered.

 

[hornet61]

i went to my library which is still growing and pulled out a quick 50.....stayed away from listing more than one by the super-groups, these primarily from the 60's and 70's mixed in the 80's and 90's might make for a good Classic Rock Station. pardon spelling errors and wrong title.

1 19CC - Wall Street Shuffle
2 Aerosith - Same Old Song and Dance
3 Alice Cooper - Be My Lover
4 Allman Brothers - Satesboro Blues
5 Allman Brothers - Whipping Post
6 Amboy Dukes - Journey To the Center Of My Mind
7 America - Green Monkey
8 Grand Funk - Mean Mistreat er
9 Animals - inside Looking Out
10 Apricot Brandy - Rhinoceros
11 April Wine - I Like To Rock
12 Bad Company - Shooting Star
13 Bad Finger - Rock Of Ages
14 Band - The Weight
15 Barclay James Harvest - Hymn
16 Barefoot Jerry - Two Mile Pike
17 Blind Faith - Sleeping In The Ground
18 BS&T - Love You More Than You'll Ever Know
19 Bloodrock - D.O.A.
20 Blue Cheer - Summertime Blues
21 BOC - Godzilla
22 Blue Swede - Hooked On A Feeling
23 Bob Welsch - Ebony Eyes
24 Bonnie Raiit - A Thing called Love
25 Boston - Smokin'
26 Bram Tchaikovsky - Girl Of My Dreams
27 Brownsville Station - Smokin' In The Boys Room
28 BTO - Freeway
29 Canned Heat - Lets Work together
30 Captain Beefhart - Diddy Wah Diddy
31 CCR - Traveling Band
32 Charlie Daniels - Still In Saigon
33 Chase - Lets Get It On
34 Neil Young - Cinnamon Girl
35 Climax Blues band - Couldn't Get It Right
36 Cold Blood - Just Want to Make Love To you
37 Cream - Strange Brew
38 Dave Mason - Only You know and I Know
39 David Essex - Rock On
40 Deep Purple - Burn
41 Delanie, Bonnie and Friends - Comin' Home
42 Derek and the Dominos - Roll It Over
43 Dickie Betts band - Rock bottom
44 Donovan - Barabajagal
45 Doobie Brothers - Without you
46 Doors - Roadhouse Blues
47 eagles - Seven Bridges
48 Edgar Winter - Tobacco Road
49 Electric Prunes - Too Much To Dream
50 ElO - Rollover Beethoven

 

[Talk_Dude]

i went to my library which is still growing and pulled out a quick 50.....stayed away from listing more than one by the super-groups, these primarily from the 60's and 70's mixed in the 80's and 90's might make for a good Classic Rock Station. pardon spelling errors and wrong title.

Kinda favored the front of the alphabet, didn't ya?

The list is basically good, but I can't agree that only one song per super-group is a good thing. If you're programming songs for a radio station, program songs. Forget about who recorded them. If the song sounds good, play it. If it doesn't, don't. If you play good sounding songs, people who tune you in will stay tuned in. If you play bad sounding songs, they'll tune out. It ain't rocket science.

 

[88.9 Miracle]

But what if what sounds good to you, doesn't sound good to me? Good is determined by the listener. It's a personal thing.

 

[hornet61]

i went to my library which is still growing and pulled out a quick 50.....stayed away from listing more than one by the super-groups, these primarily from the 60's and 70's mixed in the 80's and 90's might make for a good Classic Rock Station. pardon spelling errors and wrong title.

Kinda favored the front of the alphabet, didn't ya?

The list is basically good, but I can't agree that only one song per super-group is a good thing. If you're programming songs for a radio station, program songs. Forget about who recorded them. If the song sounds good, play it. If it doesn't, don't. If you play good sounding songs, people who tune you in will stay tuned in. If you play bad sounding songs, they'll tune out. It ain't rocket science.

I was going thru an alphabetical list, from my library.....I wanted to illustrate a quick 50, not any artists greatest hits ..sure plenty of Doors, plenty of everyone, this was a snap-shot, a snap -shot of variety.....and i started at A and quit at the start of the E's, i didn't want to list , more than 50.

 

[Talk_Dude]

But what if what sounds good to you, doesn't sound good to me? Good is determined by the listener. It's a personal thing.

What separates the good program director from the not-so-good one is the ability to predict which songs his target audience will think is good. It's an art, not a science. It's an issue of having a good rapport with one's audience. Research is an attempt to compensate for PD's who don't have that gift of a "golden ear".

In some ways it's similar to the wine-makers who can judge what wines will sell well and what wines won't.

 

[mcamp]

But what if what sounds good to you, doesn't sound good to me? Good is determined by the listener. It's a personal thing.

But if certain artists are not played for whatever reason....if an audience never hears it, is it still good, or not?
Program directors decide what is good....they pigeon hole their audience to think that "this is good".
It has been perpetuated for a generation now, so an audience has been brainwashed into what is "good". It is entrenched in all forms of media, from sound bites on talk radio, to advertising, and now being covered by "tween" bands, where it's audience doesn't know any better.
To put it bluntly...I don't think we will be hearing Justin Bieber covering King Crimson anytime soon

 

[Talk_Dude]

But what if what sounds good to you, doesn't sound good to me? Good is determined by the listener. It's a personal thing.

But if certain artists are not played for whatever reason....if an audience never hears it, is it still good, or not?
Program directors decide what is good....they pigeon hole their audience to think that "this is good".
It has been perpetuated for a generation now, so an audience has been brainwashed into what is "good". It is entrenched in all forms of media, from sound bites on talk radio, to advertising, and now being covered by "tween" bands, where it's audience doesn't know any better.
To put it bluntly...I don't think we will be hearing Justin Bieber covering King Crimson anytime soon

Lately, I've discovered a large number of songs that were hits in Europe that never got any exposure or traction in the US. In particular are European bands that work in genres that are totally ignored by American radio.

Two bands that have been major headliners in Europe and virtually unknown in the US are the Dutch band Within Temptation and the Finnish band Nightwish. You mentioned King Crimson, those two bands could be described as picking up where bands like King Crimson or Renaissance left off.

Maybe they don't have the kind of mass appeal that attracts huge bunches of listeners who just like the radio to be on as background noise, but they will attract audiences that actually listen, and that would actually listen to the commercials as well.

I'm also curious about how the radio pros who claim to know everything can say on one hand that a station that plays vintage music must only play the proven hits, while a station that plays only the newest songs can fill their entire playlist with nothing but new releases that haven't had any time to develop a track record. Either stations can succeed playing good but unfamiliar songs, or they can't. But it's downright stupid to claim two totally opposite things are both true at the same time.

 

[mcamp]

But what if what sounds good to you, doesn't sound good to me? Good is determined by the listener. It's a personal thing.

I'm also curious about how the radio pros who claim to know everything can say on one hand that a station that plays vintage music must only play the proven hits, while a station that plays only the newest songs can fill their entire playlist with nothing but new releases that haven't had any time to develop a track record.

Well that says it all. The industry today is driven more by marketing than substance.
The labels throw plenty of money at an act, where it is pretty much a sure thing...no track record needed...hello Justin Bieber.

 

[Neanderpaul]

I guess I'll chime in...

The sad reality is that radio (as an industry...there are some stations who attempt to kick water uphill) has ceded our position as the epicenter of the music fan's world.

This is partially our own fault. Somewhere down the line, we either forgot why it moves people, or decided that music was a commodity. That we could serve it up as disposable. Now, to a large degree, this is true. Of the millions of songs that have been written, a small percentage have achieved a level of mass acceptance as being "good enough" to be included as the foundation for an industry.

However, we also forgot to keep in mind that, in order to continue to evolve, we must either age with our customer, or develop/shed audience on a regular basis.

Classic Rock & Oldies are both in a weird place right now.

It comes down to your definition of each format. What was Classic Rock is now Oldies and what was Contemporary, now Classic. And so on...

As Oldies stations probably feel uncomfortable having to make the decision to include bands like Led Zeppelin, whose debut was 42 years ago and is absolutely now an "oldie," so too must Classic rock feel weird about playing Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains. All of whom are looking at being around for a generation now.

Back in the day...what defined "Classic Rock?" Was it age? or texture? And what defines it now? I hear "Active Rock" stations playing Hendrix & The Doors.

Reality check time.

There is no Classic Rock anymore. It's all either Rock, or it isn't. And whatever textures can be included in your Rock station, are the textures one should include. If you can play the Rolling Stones & Stone Sour on the same station, you're in a good place. All of these sub-genres of formats were only created in an attempt to secure promotional revenue anyway.

The audience doesn't use terms like "Classic Rock." And even if they do...they don't define it like the industry does. I worked for a station that used to use the (IMHO) stupid term "Killer Classics & Today's Best Rock!" Has anyone ever heard someone tell you they listen to either?

"Hey man...I love W---. They play killer classics."

"Well I love K---. They play today's best rock."

Nope. People just want to hear their favorite music on their favorite station. The trick is, being their favorite station. With PPM, we're seeing the rebirth of great AOR Radio. Stations that play the right songs, win. Finding the right songs is the key to unlocking Pandora's Box. Any station that finds the right formula, becomes the nuclear weapon in their market.

As I could go on in great detail...I'll attempt to answer the original question.

There is no future for "Classic Rock" stations. The time has come for the label to be shed. It doesn't apply to the real world.

You are either a Rock station. Or, you are not. It is the song texture and not the artist that defines your station. Simple as that.

If you can play CSN&Y, Gn'R, and NiN on your station, you're extremely lucky. The audience doesn't put your station in a compartment. Neither should you.

Goodbye Classic Rock. Welcome back AOR.

...just my opinion.