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What is up with Top 40/CHR in Atlanta?!

Talk_Dude said:
Fact: There aren't enough people living in the Altanta Metro area who would change their radio station of choice to a CHR station to make a CHR station a profitable enterprise. So far, there are two people now calling for a CHR Station in Atlanta. There is one who lives in Arizona and who therefore doesn't mean diddly in terms of ratings points, and there's a newcomer to the region. That ain't enough people to make a CHR station a profitable operation.

By the way, the reason I ask what does this have to do with...etc. etc. etc. is not because it doesn't make sense, but because in reality, it has very little to do with the specific types of things and topics I suggest and talk about. It does have something to do with people saying "there should be a rhythmic lean top 40 / traditional top 40", but not too much directly when it comes to suggesting a specialty weekend mixshow at certain times of a day or week. Some people want a full change in entire formatting to fit ALL their needs. I'm reasonably thankful for what ALREADY EXISTS, and if what I've been asking for didn't work, then the sources/stations necessary for those type of things to exist would not exist in the first place, either. First, it was a rhythmic top 40 station (top 40 with a rhythmic lean) I / people suggested. Then when Groove went rhythmic POP instead of urban lean like wbts IN ADDITION TO Q going more traditional sounding, I accepted that as enough, keeping my personal, non business related wishes reasonable. Almost RIGHT AWAY, Groove also adopted a Friday night mix featuring the exclusive types of stuff I like. Q100 ALREADY DOES and has been delivering "my sound" on Sat nights. So what more can I ask for in a market where all this is forbidden? Right now as I type, they are playing some electro-pop and electro-hip hop and house in the mix on Groove....

So, yes, your reasoning for why a rhythmic lean (or more rhythmic pop) format(s) makes sense, but no one can say that I've specifically been suggesting doesn't work - especially when it's already happening. And - there's no contradiction here - I've always at the least supported the Saturday night mix on Q, so that is nothing new. Do these stations HAVE to feature these shows? No. But they choose to because they know it livens up their station and brings FUN (without killing ratings or disrupting the business) when done correctly. Mixes and extra stuff are not a necessity, but they CAN be done, even on a forbidden chr sound in Atl!

So, with that being said, regardless of how unorganized my thoughts were as I wrote this, the reasonable ideas I've presented here all along CAN work in Atl radio. I've never gone crazy to suggest that Atl should have a rhythmic lean top 40, a rhythmic, AND a dance station to fulfill ALL MY PERSONAL needs. Never did I say that Atlanta radio has to target Arizona audience from Atlanta. I've made past comparisons, but that was pretty much it. What is funny, though, is how WWVA sounds almost IDENTICAL to our KZON and some of the other L.A. stations I've discussed a lot in many ways. I don't remember who, but I do remember someone saying this format would never work as well. ** (And if rhythmic is so bad, why did every station that has been a top 40 in Atlanta go MORE in that direction as an attempt to remain on top whenever they felt threatened? Also, why did Q have to lean off of their pop rock lean when leaning that way in the first place almost put Star back in the lead? Once again, If I'm wrong here, present me with details explaining why I'm wrong in regards to this brief summary on Atl. top 40 history (2nd request)).

Anyway, no need for me to say much more with a party station in Atlanta, AND Q100 leaning more traditional (although not as much as most may desire) and BOTH featuring some type of mix show where electro, electro-hip hop and dance are played. When the advertisers start "rioting and boycotting" both stations and the profit dries up and both stations go out of business due to lack of advertisers, then I will sit back and accept "Ok maybe Atlanta IS truly the Bermuda Triangle of Traditional top 40 AND rhythmic radio".

I hope I've made myself 100% clear about my specific suggestions and ideas the fact that I'm not saying rhythmic top 40 should take over all of Atlanta and forget about ads, profits, and business and just adhere to my tastes.

Lastly, there are formats I don't like or care too much for, but you don't see me dedicating time for attacking those formats and people who like them - in addition to researching all the reasons for why it couldn't / shouldn't work, every chance I get. I'm not saying everyone has to be like me. I'm simply telling you or whoever's reading what I'm not doing (hoping to set an example). ;) (Unfortunately, all formats don't mix and can't deliver specialty programming of different choices to their listeners, but that really isn't my problem, isn't my fault, and isn't a reason why I can't have my own wishes).
 
Ken said:
Lets bring this up say Q 100 was not owned by Cumulus. Say if CBS or CC owned them, would it sound the same way?

THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION!

But I'm sure the level of tension in the room has increased to a higher level due to the amount I've written, so... I wont even post more to hypothesize at the moment.

*** HOWEVER,
I am interested in seeing some SERIOUS RESPONSES in regards to:

"Lets bring this up say Q 100 was not owned by Cumulus. Say if CBS or CC owned them, would it sound the same way?"
 
Thanks KDM 7000

And to add to what I said. I am sure if CBS owned it they would program it in a way to protect V 103 no doubt about that. It surely can be done for take example Charlotte, NC where CBS Radio owns both the Urban Power 98 WPEG and CHR KISS 95.1 WNKS both stations do well in the market. But yes this is ATL and Charlotte, NC
 
I will admit that Q100 has gotten slightly better so there is hope, and I do like the Saturday night mix show (but it's only one day of the week unfortunately and late at night). I'm still confused as to why they are playing "indie-rock/alternative" music during the day now. I like alternative, but it doesn't belong on Q100. It just makes me wonder what the hell they are thinking?

I did some research and other Cumulus CHR's do not do this. If you look at i106 in Nashville and i93 in Dallas, they are actually pretty decent CHR's. Also, for example, they are not blasting Theory of a Deadman - Not Meant To Be or Owl City - Fireflies or John Mayer as recurrents, but more rhythmic/upbeat songs like other CHR's. They also play songs throughout the whole day (for example, Far East Movement - Like A G6). So Cumulus is capable of creating good CHR's but why not Q100? Who has more control over the playlist - Cumulus or Q100?

Also, since I have been so negative and I apologize, I will give Q100 credit in that they add MOST new music, but where I get annoyed is that they always fail to play those 3-5 new songs that are played everywhere else in the country (for example this time around, Kevin Rudolf - I Made It, Auburn - La La La and David Guetta - Gettin' Over You). Instead, they add Sick Puppies - Maybe ??? If I were some of these artists (Akon, Pitbull, David Guetta, Kevin Rudolf, Auburn, etc. because there are many more) I would be pissed my songs are not being played in a top 7 market. Also, Atlanta is the only market in the top 10 without a full blown CHR station and I have a hard time believing it can't support one. If Q100 went full blown CHR, I know their ratings would be higher and could seriously compete with V-103.
 
mike7586 said:
I will admit that Q100 has gotten slightly better so there is hope, and I do like the Saturday night mix show (but it's only one day of the week unfortunately and late at night). I'm still confused as to why they are playing "indie-rock/alternative" music during the day now. I like alternative, but it doesn't belong on Q100. It just makes me wonder what the hell they are thinking?

I did some research and other Cumulus CHR's do not do this. If you look at i106 in Nashville and i93 in Dallas, they are actually pretty decent CHR's. Also, for example, they are not blasting Theory of a Deadman - Not Meant To Be or Owl City - Fireflies or John Mayer as recurrents, but more rhythmic/upbeat songs like other CHR's. They also play songs throughout the whole day (for example, Far East Movement - Like A G6). So Cumulus is capable of creating good CHR's but why not Q100? Who has more control over the playlist - Cumulus or Q100?

Also, since I have been so negative and I apologize, I will give Q100 credit in that they add MOST new music, but where I get annoyed is that they always fail to play those 3-5 new songs that are played everywhere else in the country (for example this time around, Kevin Rudolf - I Made It, Auburn - La La La and David Guetta - Gettin' Over You). Instead, they add Sick Puppies - Maybe ??? If I were some of these artists (Akon, Pitbull, David Guetta, Kevin Rudolf, Auburn, etc. because there are many more) I would be pissed my songs are not being played in a top 7 market. Also, Atlanta is the only market in the top 10 without a full blown CHR station and I have a hard time believing it can't support one. If Q100 went full blown CHR, I know their ratings would be higher and could seriously compete with V-103.

This whole thing is pretty interesting because I was seriously thinking everything discussed within the last two posts should be started fresh as a new topic, in regards to whether or not a full blown chr could (still) work in Atl - and not only that, but WHO would do it, WHAT style would they deliver, and WHERE on he dial would it happen? I was planning on just asking the question then leaving to let everyone else hash it out with their opinions or facts based on whatever they wish - whatever it be because they love it, hate it, researched it, wishful thinking, know the format and the market....etc. There will always be reasons why people have their views on the situation.

However, putting all personal biases and wishes aside, I doubt that a traditional full blown CHR would fail in Atlanta - regardless of the fact that there are many urbans!

That's right. I changed my mind from since when I said it wouldn't work because it may oversaturate urban sound. I didn't change my mind about saying Q100 being better, JUST in regards to saying there's no room for a full blown CHR. The only thing is that if ClearChannel or someone else produced a full blown CHR, it may cause a chain reaction of things to happen in the Atl chr world (which is a small world!!) and certain stations may have to have their current sound reconsidered a bit... which... I'm sure no one would really care - unless it lead to something else rather dumb happening (and I mean dumb as in dumb. Not dumb as in "I'm upset because I personally don't like the decision").
______________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, as you can see, Cumulous is not 100% of the blame for the oddities. It is also weird to see that Atl is the ONLY top 7 market without a full blown chr... but I wont even get into that.

I just want to know if anyone thinks that if ClearChannel or someone else were to own a top 40 in Atl, would they be identical to the current Q hot ac flirtation because they'd also discover that this is the only style of format sound within this entire planet that would work? I wont even get into the whole Susqueanna thing. I'll just pretend that I don't know the history and ASK; "would a full blown chr have successful ratings in Atl?" The other question is which talents will they use to go up against the on-airs currently on Q100?
 
Here is an email I got from Rob Roberts at Q100 in response to an email I sent about why they are playing rock/alternative songs, why they don't play certain songs, and the horrible male voice they use:

"Let me address several of these in order.

While not all of those songs appeal to everyone obviously, there is a great deal of passion in Atlanta for those rock/alternative songs that were top 5 songs on the Hot 100. We only talk/research people who listen to Q100. So the people who are responding to our research are specifically commenting on songs they want to hear on Q100. These songs in no way compete with 99X or constrict the flow of success for 99X. These are flavor songs that make a station distinct.

Every song you mentioned starting with Auburn and on down topped out on the charts at 20 or lower. Not hits. Other stations may play some or all of these but Q100 has a distinctive pop sound and we focus on songs that hit the top of the chart. Granted, there are LOTS of great songs that never achieve a high chart position but these songs never developed a national picture of success. And we always try to find out what Atlanta wants to hear. You are obviously well versed on the charts and if you look at the current charts you’ll see Q100 playing everything in the top 20 and more.

We are working every day on building a station that is true to Atlanta. And by saying “we could be like NY or Miami” is not what we have as a goal in any way. It’s surprising you would belittle a station for trying to be true to its metro audience. Atlanta tells us what to play. Not other cities or the national chart. There is certainly a fine balance there because what’s number 1 in NY is also usually number 1 in Atlanta but when you drop below the top 20, it’s anyone’s guess.

Finally, our male voice is Jeff Berlin who is the voice I brought to Y-100 in Miami, is still used there and is the single most popular voice in Top 40 radio. Jeff is the gold standard for radio voices. So you’ve got no shot there."

Which I then responded with:

"I am certaintly not belittling the station and I didn't mean Q100 should be exactly like Z100 or Y100. It should definitely be a station true to Atlanta, but what I meant was those stations are more CHR/rhythmic leaning like every other CHR/Top 40 station in the country and I was expressing how I (and I am not the only person) would like to hear Q100 have more of a CHR/rhythmic sound (and being in Atlanta, you think it would). In regards to those songs, they may have dropped off now, but they were big enough hits to be played on every top 40 station in the top 20 markets (except for Atlanta). Also, if you don't play them or send out listener surveys, how can Atlanta choose if they want to hear it or not? Have you ever considered having a music survey on your website for listeners to sign up and rate songs? Additionally, I don't understand why you play certain songs at night - people would like to hear those songs during the day too (for example, why I originally emailed you in regards to Like A G6). Regarding the male voice, I used to live in Charlotte, and KISS 95.1 there uses the same voice, except they do a much better job with the volume and pitch of his voice. I'm assuming you listen to Q100 so you have to hear it - there's some parts that just don't sound good.

Anyways, thanks again for listening."

Well everyone, looks like Q100 won't be changing to a fullblown CHR/Top 40 station anytime soon! :(

Being in Atlanta/Georgia (both are in many songs/lyrics), I can think of many flavor songs that would make the station unique to ATL - of course they aren't rock/alternative though but are played on top 40 stations: Trick Daddy - Sugar (Gimme Some), Lloyd - You, Lil John & Youngbloodz - Damn!, 112 - Peaches & Cream, Ying Yang Twins - Shake, Ludacris - What's Your Fantasy, Usher - Caught Up, Usher - Burn, etc. Of course, these would probably go against their "pop sound". So instead they play Crazy Town - Butterfly, Smashing Pumpkins - 1979, Vertical Horizon - Everything You Want, etc. Plus, they are more inclined to play these songs that WERE "top 5 hits" back in the day but can't play songs TODAY that aren't in the top 20? What in the heck? Basically, Q100 won't play a song if it isn't in the top 20, and the songs I mentioned (Auburn, David Guetta, Kevin Rudolf, Cascada) were in the top 20 and were in the top 10 on iTunes. What are they smoking at Q100? It doesn't seem like they play what Atlanta wants to hear, it seems like they play what they think Atlanta wants to hear.
 
mike7586 said:
Here is an email I got from Rob Roberts at Q100 in response to an email I sent about why they are playing rock/alternative songs, why they don't play certain songs, and the horrible male voice they use:

"Let me address several of these in order.

While not all of those songs appeal to everyone obviously, there is a great deal of passion in Atlanta for those rock/alternative songs that were top 5 songs on the Hot 100. We only talk/research people who listen to Q100. So the people who are responding to our research are specifically commenting on songs they want to hear on Q100. These songs in no way compete with 99X or constrict the flow of success for 99X. These are flavor songs that make a station distinct.

That's one of the dumbest things I think I've ever read. Business success is about growth. It's not about remaining stagnant. The most important thing for any radio station to find out is what it would take to get the people who don't listen to your station that you can add without chasing away your current audience. People are always going to get bored with any station and stop listening eventually. Any station that doesn't do things to replace those they're going to lose anyway is doomed to eventual failure.
 
WELL..

There is A LOT going on here, so after the 12:20 Party Mix is done, I'll be back to share my entire rebuttal. I'm going to be honest and say Q100 doesn't really play any songs I DON'T like, and if I were not into radio or didn't know they were different, it probably wouldn't make much difference to me that they choose to be different than the rest, BUT...

And that's a BIG but, so if you think you don't like BIG buts, I strongly recommend you stay away from this topic.

Anyway, 12:20 party mix is on, I'm going to do some stuff quickly, then I'll be back to show everyone my BUT once I get back!

Alright....
 
Talk_Dude said:
mike7586 said:
Here is an email I got from Rob Roberts at Q100 in response to an email I sent about why they are playing rock/alternative songs, why they don't play certain songs, and the horrible male voice they use:

"Let me address several of these in order.

While not all of those songs appeal to everyone obviously, there is a great deal of passion in Atlanta for those rock/alternative songs that were top 5 songs on the Hot 100. We only talk/research people who listen to Q100. So the people who are responding to our research are specifically commenting on songs they want to hear on Q100. These songs in no way compete with 99X or constrict the flow of success for 99X. These are flavor songs that make a station distinct.

That's one of the dumbest things I think I've ever read. Business success is about growth. It's not about remaining stagnant. The most important thing for any radio station to find out is what it would take to get the people who don't listen to your station that you can add without chasing away your current audience. People are always going to get bored with any station and stop listening eventually. Any station that doesn't do things to replace those they're going to lose anyway is doomed to eventual failure.

The only people who don't listen to Q100 at all are people clearly outside of their demographic or who have no interest in their genre of music. When he says they only talk to those who listen, I would imagine that includes those who may tune into the Groove or Star more often, but still keep Q in their rotation. Obviously, the growth available to Q is limited to taking listeners away from their competitors. Q100 will never, ever grow their listener-ship by taking people from V103, Project 9-6-1, WSB-AM, etc. So exactly what other demographic or set of listeners should they be researching that would do any good at all? They sample those that listen and those who could potentially listen more. There's no reason to go any further than that because those listeners aren't about to leave wherever they reside if it's nowhere near Q100, Star, or the Groove.
 
At first, I was wondering WHO could it be...??

KDM 7000 said:
...I, however, am serious about getting a certain sound there, ESPECIALLY when it has been proven that it could work in the past, but someone somewhere is just CHOOSING not to let it happen...

Now that I've found out, my only direct response to my answer is

"OH."

Anyway, this entire plethora of details regarding this topic is not only intriguing, but also raises a whole set of new questions as well. However, I'll limit myself to the most hypothetically interesting - but sensibly & financially possible, thought provoking questions.

* Should Q100 even change/tweak to be a full blown chr, OR should we forget about that and just look towards another media company coming in and supplying the traditional, proven "full blown" top 40 sound?

AND WITH THAT QUESTION LOOMING AROUND IN THE AIR,
I shall also ask:

* Lets say - IF another media company were to pop into town and launch a full blown chr, would Q100 CONTINUE to stick PRECISELY to what they believe in, OR would those same ideas and beliefs they hold suddenly change in exchange for new ideas with the threat of a traditional chr sound being launch?

LET THE QUESTIONS SINK IN A LITTLE BIT.

MY BUT:
Before I continue, let me raise another point. While I say that PERSONALLY, there are not really any songs on Q100 that I dislike (and there may be others who agree with my personal mindset), this, however, does not glorify, or change the fact that there are (and have been) SEVERAL hits that have seriously been lacking in the ATL, and anybody who researches and researches correctly will discover that

YOU COULD CUT THE LACK OF TRADITIONAL TOP 40 HITS PRESENT IN ATLANTA HISTORY WITH A KNIFE!

You go back and research and observe the amount of established hits that have never received attention in the A. While it is good to stay true to your listeners and be different sometimes, many people still do not condone the fact that they are being forced to settle for what's available - ESPECIALLY in a situation where they don't have to, but must because there are no other options available. Maybe this is a weak response to the entire situation, but it still remains the truth. Basically, from all I've absorbed so far, I can see that once again, what I suspected is true - WHETHER OR NOT the local CHR chooses to lean pop/rock and away from the traditional sound, the ratings can be and will still be successful - in addition to the fact there is no direct competition. As a result, the choice to either lean more rhythmic OR pop/rock exists, and one choice is being chosen since they both could work.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, I was willing to go against my "don't just sit back and settle for good enough" and accept the fact that we have Groove; A full blown RHYTHMIC is now in place fully fulfilling their purpose, in addition to Q100 (instead of just Q100 alone, or Q100 in existence with Star, or another rhythmic who consists of a boring, urban lean format strategy, who are all excluding hits), so I should be thankful and accept that this is good enough for now. Well, ... it surely looks as if although I was willing to settle, there are people even more passionate than myself (within and outside of these boards, by the way!!...) about getting a full traditional sounding CHR in town. It's like I discuss ways on getting to space, someone builds a shuttle, then I let it go, but Neil Armstrong says "no, we're not done here - now I want to get to the moon".

I'm not going to knock down Q100 for what they do or knock anyone's dreams, style, or passions (and you have to admit that the current music director at Q himself must have a personal preference and passion for pop/rock alternative at SOME level- if they are this resistant towards easing off the pop rock lean - regardless of proven national trends in hit music sounds), but I do say if we want a traditional CHR, maybe it's time we push for a NEW media company to supply one. (OR, WHAT IF wwwq KEPT their pock rock, but just sprinkled in a couple more of the established hits they're choosing not to play?) I doubt it would hurt for another company to challenge Q100 a bit, BUT the question still remains:

If a full blown CHR were to be launch, would Q100 stick to their "core values", or would they be "forced" to let go of their core values and change their style? I believe one main problem with launching a new chr station is the fact that there's already one that's "close enough" to the traditional sound and may attempt to "try to push out" any direct competitors. NOT that "it will never work and nobody in Atl wants to hear it and it will never make sense financially...etc etc etc". Maybe Star wasn't completely successful when they attempted their "get out of here" attitude towards their new competition, but they surely did "cause a bit of stir", to phrase it delicately. Q also has on-air programming that would only help to make any challenger trying to outdo them a more difficult task.

A new CHR.... how would this affect Q100? I can already sense the brain activity taking place in minds as they're forced to think about the idea of a new, full blown chr in Atl:

"It wont work... it will never work... radio is not what it used to be.. it's not about what the people truly want... nobody in Atlanta wants hit music.... don't talk about it... stop trying"

Looks like the people in charge of handling and financing our space program have also adopted that frame of thinking. Lets see how far this gets them - WHILE EVERYONE ELSE in that business industry grows and moves on.
 
when i got into radio, my first PD took a handful of pens out of his desk and threw them at me while saying "catch!"

i caught none of them.

then he took one at a time and tossed them at me. i caught each one.

"one thought per break," he said. that's all the listener can catch.

KDM you say so much that nobody catches any of it.
 
amos said:
when i got into radio, my first PD took a handful of pens out of his desk and threw them at me while saying "catch!"

i caught none of them.

then he took one at a time and tossed them at me.  i caught each one.

"one thought per break," he said.  that's all the listener can catch.

KDM you say so much that nobody catches any of it.

I understand the point being made here, but this is not audio or timed. It's visual, and unlike an unrecorded talk radio segment, it will also remain here for many days, or however long it takes to be fully read (by those who are interested enough in the topic subject) (and is also much shorter than a lease agreement or legally binding contract - which people sign, impromptu, on a daily basis).

Besides, I wouldn't say "nobody" catches any of it because I feel, based on solid proof, that throughout various sections these boards, there are people who are voluntarily dedicated to researching my activity in entirety, even outside of those specifics who are interested in reading my entire posts (who are the ones to most often not reply on the main board(s), but are the ones I'm targeting).  :)
___________________________________________________________________________________

T.G. said:
Well said, Amos. Makes me glad my mouse has a scroll wheel.

;) Now THIS is a perfect example of people using their freedom of choice in reading my posts.

Believe it or not, my first radio job came from posting somewhere and someone secretly reading my posts and seeing what I had to say over time, then finally contacting me with the real contact info I had up to take things further.. (HOWEVER, This is NOT my purpose for continuing to write now - Just writing how I always do on certain subjects on a normal basis.)

Trust me - those interested enough in the subject matter will (eventually) find time to the entire post and most of those who are uninterested or whom it doesn't pertain to will be filtered out by the massive amount and skip it.  :)
 
What I don't understand is this: people who want to hear rock/alternative are not going to tune into a top 40 station and why would they? Wouldn't you all agree?

Just when it seemed like they were going forwards by playing more rhythmic sounding music all day long, they took several steps backwards by adding rock/alternative during the day. A real CHR station has proven to be successful in Atlanta - a perfect example IS Q100 before Cumulus took over and Cumulus has ruined this station ever since they acquired it.
 
mike7586 said:
What I don't understand is this: people who want to hear rock/alternative are not going to tune into a top 40 station and why would they? Wouldn't you all agree?

I agree fully. If I want to hear Breaking Benjamin or Paramore for example I will turn to the Hot AC or Alternative station.

But some rock you will hear on a CHR for example is Train, Kings of Leon, Neon Trees, Theory Of A Deadman
 
I think Star*94 is perfect for the current and recurrent heavy alternative-pop/rock sound. Q would be much better sounding in general as a 2010 CHR Top 40 if they justs tuck with their evening ways all day long (Although I have to admit that I do kind of think their time formula arrangement is smart). If they don't want to use ALL of the traditional top 40 hits, then maybe they could add in more weekday mix shows, mainly around noon, around the early evening and later evening featuring more traditional top 40 hits, even if they are all 20 minute quick mixes. It would be great to bring back the Friday night mix as well (like it used to be in the past) or at least adopt the Baka Boys All Star Hitmix or something. I sort of think the Smashing Pumpkins and Vertical Horizon sound is out of place on Q, despite the amount of other pop rock hits.

If anyone were to launch a brand new CHR full blown top 40 station, who / which media company could it most sensibly be and how do you think Q100 will react?
 
Given that B98.5 sucks, it makes sense to me that a Hot AC would work and give them competition.
 
MsMusicRadio said:
Given that B98.5 sucks, it makes sense to me that a Hot AC would work and give them competition.

B98.5 is a music intensive radio station, and in that regard their playlist is dead on. See them ratings? 'nuff said.
 
Bring back Power 99, the old late-70s/early-80s Z-93, or Quixie.

Somebody had to say it--figured it would be me. That's usually where this convo ends up.
 
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