Let me preface by saying I understand about weighted books; I certainly understand about urban books, but these numbers are ridiculous, if not altogether fraudulent: I could almost believe JMH getting one full point in one quarter, but am I supposed to believe QMG did something super clever in their programming/imaging to regain all their share--and more--from winter08, even while JMH was gaining? Who are these supposed urban/rythmic listeners? Did they all come from Magic? Even if that was plausible, how did Magic suddenly fall off the cliff? What did they do over a 3-month span that was so catastrophic?? As for the talkers, I see SJS lost a full point, but ZTK gained nothing. Did all those AM-Talk listeners suddenly decide to go FM-urban?! This stinks to high heaven.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
what's wrong with this picture
- Thread starter disgruntled
- Start date
The problem with ratings diaries is they don't distribute them in the right manner,
and can cause flaws in the numbers when they are analyzed.
If they had another way to poll the habits of radio listeners, i think we would get
a clearer picture and different results in every metered market than what we are
seeing right now.
I wonder how many other radio companies will choose to drop "Arbitron" and go
with a system of their own?
and can cause flaws in the numbers when they are analyzed.
If they had another way to poll the habits of radio listeners, i think we would get
a clearer picture and different results in every metered market than what we are
seeing right now.
I wonder how many other radio companies will choose to drop "Arbitron" and go
with a system of their own?
thats a good question, edj. frankly, I'm surprised there hasn't already been some sort of industry-wide revolt against arb. what is the motivation to skew everything so urban, anyway? i've never understood the rationale behind that. who's getting paid off here?
actually, I should amend what I said earlier; I DO understand the motivation behind urban skewing, from a political standpoint. C'mon, let's just say it out loud--THIS IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR RADIO AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. Still, there has to be a financial motive somewhere, so let me propose a wild and wacky theory:
Somewhere along the way, some corporate toady decided that urban/rythmic would become the "new" mainstream, displacing AC (I first suspected something was wrong when I noticed janet jackson showing up on Hot AC charts circa 1997). Then along came the tepid, vomit-inducing boy bands, further perpetuating the youth movement in sales and rythmic-centric programming in radio. Trouble is, those boy band fans grew up and now feel kind of silly about the whole thing. Unfortunately for the recording industry, they all went too far down that road and couldnt get the train off the track (sort of like mike nifong feeling obligated to move steadily forward against the duke lacrosse team, even as the case was falling apart). Now the industry has no choice but to perpetuate the status quo, with a little help from arbitron (which is receiving secret payments in a parking garage near the Watergate building), even as they reach the point of dimishing sales returns with each passing cycle.
Somewhere along the way, some corporate toady decided that urban/rythmic would become the "new" mainstream, displacing AC (I first suspected something was wrong when I noticed janet jackson showing up on Hot AC charts circa 1997). Then along came the tepid, vomit-inducing boy bands, further perpetuating the youth movement in sales and rythmic-centric programming in radio. Trouble is, those boy band fans grew up and now feel kind of silly about the whole thing. Unfortunately for the recording industry, they all went too far down that road and couldnt get the train off the track (sort of like mike nifong feeling obligated to move steadily forward against the duke lacrosse team, even as the case was falling apart). Now the industry has no choice but to perpetuate the status quo, with a little help from arbitron (which is receiving secret payments in a parking garage near the Watergate building), even as they reach the point of dimishing sales returns with each passing cycle.
What they really should do is come up with some kind of real time "meter" that reads radio listening. A person could wear this "meter" and it would record what stations they listen to when they have it on. This would give us an actual account of individual radio listening. I'd love to hear input from some experts out there. Xtalker? Bigape?
D
dittohead1
Guest
yeah, cause that whole meter thing is working out soooo well (eye roll)
u will beg for paper diaries when you see the crap that ppm spits out
u will beg for paper diaries when you see the crap that ppm spits out
D
dittohead1
Guest
and why the hell are you always bellyaching about ZTK, disgruntled? wake me when they break a 3 share, for god's sake!
gee whiz, I barely mentioned ZTK in passing. I was really making a point about SJS, but since you brought it up......doesn't it stand to reason that a loss for SJS should produce at least some minimal gain for ZTK? where else would 25-54 white males go? Ditto, we can go round and round about the merits of talk on FM, as we have before, but here is the bottom line, as I see it ,for that station: they are fighting a battle on two fronts--
(1) there is deep-rooted resistance to the idea that anything other than music can succeed on fm (and yes, I'm aware that fm morning shows play very little music, but "morning zoo" and other crass formats are essentially targeting the same demo). Because of this long-standing fm paradigm, arbitron will look at any gains for a station such as ZTK, and say to themselves, "oh my goodness, that can't be right. let's change the sampling until we get numbers that fit our pre-conceived notions about market share."
(2) ZTK is battling for listeners within their own company, going head to head with SJS and, to a lesser degree, PTF. In fact, both ZTK and PTF run clark howard, and since PTF runs it during an earlier daypart, there is simply no way that those same triangle listeners are going to turn around at 12noon to hear even more clark on ZTK for the next 3 hours. That has to be killing ZTK's share in the triangle. Has to be.
ZTK will be just fine in the long run, if curtis is willing to commit to the long haul, and if the music industry as a whole continues to feed its own death spiral with assembly-line urbanized pop crud. (If not, I will still have my first choice, NPR, which has recently pulled me back with their aft drive features. There's just something about those melancholy, lifeless voices that strikes a chord with me........
(1) there is deep-rooted resistance to the idea that anything other than music can succeed on fm (and yes, I'm aware that fm morning shows play very little music, but "morning zoo" and other crass formats are essentially targeting the same demo). Because of this long-standing fm paradigm, arbitron will look at any gains for a station such as ZTK, and say to themselves, "oh my goodness, that can't be right. let's change the sampling until we get numbers that fit our pre-conceived notions about market share."
(2) ZTK is battling for listeners within their own company, going head to head with SJS and, to a lesser degree, PTF. In fact, both ZTK and PTF run clark howard, and since PTF runs it during an earlier daypart, there is simply no way that those same triangle listeners are going to turn around at 12noon to hear even more clark on ZTK for the next 3 hours. That has to be killing ZTK's share in the triangle. Has to be.
ZTK will be just fine in the long run, if curtis is willing to commit to the long haul, and if the music industry as a whole continues to feed its own death spiral with assembly-line urbanized pop crud. (If not, I will still have my first choice, NPR, which has recently pulled me back with their aft drive features. There's just something about those melancholy, lifeless voices that strikes a chord with me........
and the SJS simulcast on WSML ain't helping ZTK's numbers either
D
dittohead1
Guest
Your ZTK mania was well documented on this board and, right on cue, you took a nudge and ran with it (being the 101 apologist you are). If you really think that the SML simulcast is hurting ZTK, you are DEAD WRONG. The wounds of ZTK are self-inflicted. We start the day with the official morning show of "Obama Nation". They don't know if they want to be serious. They don't know if they want to be funny. They have no identity. Then we go to the guy who wants to tell you how tough it is to be a rich guy in America in 2008. IT'S AN AWFUL BURDEN TO BEAR! But, at least he is definable. Then, it's on to Clark and he has relevance these days and he is a Rush killer, so put one in the win column for CMG on that one. Then we run into the brick wall that is the Alan Handelman Show. AH is under the impression that it's 1978 and everyone can't wait to read the latest "Rolling Stone" cover-to-cover. Any political guest with any brains can have AH arguing with himself in 10 minutes. Then he tries to be Art Bell. Then he tries to do "The Pot Radio Hour". How this guy has survived in this business this ling is a testament to the wasteland radio has become.
Then it's Savage and Colmes. Whatever...
Then, we come to my favorite part of the ZTK universe and the most important part of any talk station. That's right: Weekend Jazz. Except from now until January, it's weekend football, thereby pissing off anyone who is trying to listen to Dave Koz or whatever.
How this station has lasted this long is beyond me. And the CMG braintrust continue to have their butts kissed for their awesome contributions to "local radio". Figure that out!
Then it's Savage and Colmes. Whatever...
Then, we come to my favorite part of the ZTK universe and the most important part of any talk station. That's right: Weekend Jazz. Except from now until January, it's weekend football, thereby pissing off anyone who is trying to listen to Dave Koz or whatever.
How this station has lasted this long is beyond me. And the CMG braintrust continue to have their butts kissed for their awesome contributions to "local radio". Figure that out!
Realistically, though, long-term, don't people listen to whatever specific shows they like, and not a station in general based on the station's "overall feel?" Initially, I could see people being confused and not listening for ALL DAY, but wouldn't, over time, people listen to the shows, not the station? I don't see people identifying with stations around the clock 'overall feel' wise so much, like they used to....
maybe we should discuss your "mania" regarding ZTK, ditto, since you seem to have an ongoing personal grudge against them. Again, I was inquiring about where SJS's share went, since it didn't go to ZTK. That, by the way, is only one aspect of the latest book that I find puzzling. Could someone BESIDES dittohead offer a perspective about urban-weighted books. Is there something about sampling in the Triad that may not be readily apparent, something I've overlooked
What about ZTK?
D
dittohead1
Guest
Sniffthamic said:What about ZTK?
Thye suck [EDIT], that's what!
[EDIT-offensive content]
F
FIDELIPACK
Guest
Poor dittohead was either fired by or can't get hired by Curtis. 'Wonder if it has anything to do with his attitude? Oh no...look out....he's coming back! Please no...ditto...no, don't say it!
disgruntled said:As for the talkers, I see SJS lost a full point, but ZTK gained nothing. Did all those AM-Talk listeners suddenly decide to go FM-urban?! This stinks to high heaven.
With all due respect, your basic premise is wrong. One station loses listeners does not mean another station of a similar format will pick them up. It might work with music, but talk radio is a way different animal.
Just pick any book of the last ten years and look at the sharing numbers. You will see that NT shares more with different formats than with other NT stations.
You also fail to recognize the WFDD offers local news and talk (although pretty Liberal) and shares a great deal with WSJS and WZTK.
Finally, Arbitron wants us believe it is a zero sum game - that if one station loses a listener, another has picked one up. They call them trends. Truth is, sampling change alone can result in a ratings shift. The only way I believe they could track a true trend is to survey the same people over and over again for the whole year!
As for why SJS lost a point, there are a variety of reasons, not least of which are:
- Glenn Scott retired at the end of the Spring in 2007. Better or worse, it is change and the older demos don't like change and it takes a long time to recover for losing a 20-plus-year morning show.
- The Ride with McBride drove away a lot of cume in the daypart and the station has done little to bring them back. There has been little promotion on Hannity and a lot of people who might listen just don't know he is there.
- Replacing Laura Ingraham with live and local is probably a good thing, but the Igraham listeners are not going to be attraced by "strange food combinations". While somewhat entertaining, it just appeals to a different audience and it takes a while to make the transition. Without effective cume building promotion (which few if any stations have these days) all you can do is try to recycle your existing cume.
D
dittohead1
Guest
careful mike or some others on this board might start calling you bitter.
the ride with mcbride was one of the worst shows to air on a commercial station in the Triad in the past 25 years. easily.
the ride with mcbride was one of the worst shows to air on a commercial station in the Triad in the past 25 years. easily.
M
mediawatch22
Guest
I think that WZTK is quite deserving of all of the good numbers it can get. I'm sick of Rush. I'm sick of Hannity. I'm sick of all of the same political talk day after day, aren't you? After Obama is elected, all they'll do is tear him down and bitch about what a rotten job he's doing. Haven't we had enough of that yet??
Clark Howard and Alan Handleman are both good alternatives to the political stuff. Their topics are on target for the demo they're trying to reach. Dittohead obviously has an axe to grind with Curtis Media.
Where did Magic go? Are you referring to WMAG or WTHZ? If it was WMAG, it has to do with the Christmas programming and the bump they got from that. What they have now is just a bad hand from the deck. If it was WTHZ, they've changed their line-up, not for the better, as well as being stale. They haven't sounded good for months.
Clark Howard and Alan Handleman are both good alternatives to the political stuff. Their topics are on target for the demo they're trying to reach. Dittohead obviously has an axe to grind with Curtis Media.
Where did Magic go? Are you referring to WMAG or WTHZ? If it was WMAG, it has to do with the Christmas programming and the bump they got from that. What they have now is just a bad hand from the deck. If it was WTHZ, they've changed their line-up, not for the better, as well as being stale. They haven't sounded good for months.
D
dittohead1
Guest
mediawatch22 said:I think that WZTK is quite deserving of all of the good numbers it can get.
THAT'S THE POINT: THEY CAN'T GET ANY DECENT NUMBERS!
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.