I was driving around today, and heard a Stevie Wonder song that I hadn't heard in ages on one of the college stations. That got me to thinking about back in the 70's when he was one of the most popular artists on the album rock FM stations. Stevie, Earth Wind and Fire, George Benson, Tower of Power, and many other soul or jazz artists were part of the playlists when I first started listening to FM circa 1975, yet at some point they were dropped. I'm not exactly sure when the change occurred, maybe it was a backlash to disco - which grew out of soul or r&b or black music. Anyone recall more about this?
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When did AOR or FM rock stations stop playing black artists?
- Thread starter Lonely Summer
- Start date
Skin pigment of the artist is irrelevant.
Well, that's your judgement. Back in the 70's, AOR stations played a wide variety of music, including country rock, jazz, prog rock, soul, not just the mainstream corporate rock and heavy metal that became the mainstays of the format in the 80's. Early FM rock stations were very free form. As time went on, though, and FM became more mainstream, so did the presentation and the music.LowPayDJ said:
Why does this matter?
For the record, Living Colour are a "Black Artist." So are; Jimi Hendrix, Lenny Kravitz, Slash, LaJon Witherspoon, & Phil Lynott.
"Black Artist" is a weird term to me. I think you're applying race as a musical arbiter. I certainly don't want to make any assumption on your behalf.
So, respectfully...my question remains; Why does the skin pigment of the performer matter?
If you're asking when Rock Stations stopped playing such a wide *textural* variety of music that includes soul, disco, and R&B...I would say sometime around the time of fragmented promotional budgets. Which lead to niche-targeted formats.
Chasing the dollar, created the machine.
For the record, Living Colour are a "Black Artist." So are; Jimi Hendrix, Lenny Kravitz, Slash, LaJon Witherspoon, & Phil Lynott.
"Black Artist" is a weird term to me. I think you're applying race as a musical arbiter. I certainly don't want to make any assumption on your behalf.
So, respectfully...my question remains; Why does the skin pigment of the performer matter?
If you're asking when Rock Stations stopped playing such a wide *textural* variety of music that includes soul, disco, and R&B...I would say sometime around the time of fragmented promotional budgets. Which lead to niche-targeted formats.
Chasing the dollar, created the machine.
I believe this is a core issue that led to the demise of rock as it was originally known.
Yes, at one time, rock music was color blind. The fact is that rock was based on black music, so rock stars were simply white guys trying to play black. Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and Keith Richards all credit black blues musicians as their primary influence. Even Elton John will tell you his influences were black blues musicians. Rock, therefore, was most authentic when it was performed by black musicians. The pioneers in this area would be Jimi Hendrix, and also George Clinton, who really was making rock music with a funky beat. Lenny Kravitz was one who never achieved his potential partly because he was black, but also because his music wasn't really distinctive.
In terms of radio, the explosion of FM in the 70s gave black artists an outlet for their music in a way that couldn't be done when music radio was only on AM. The multiplicity of stations in a town allowed radio stations to target specific audiences more narrowly. The exception was pop radio, which was still based on both white and black artists. But by the mid 70s, rock was largely a suburban white phenomenon, while black artists began to take their music in other directions.
But the absolute defining point for me was Aerosmith's duet with Run/DMC on Walk This Way in 1987. That song, more than any other, confused rock radio and MTV. Was it a rock song or a rap song? It was both, but for many rock fans, it led to the rise of rap in rock music, and a whole 'nother genre that took audiences away from the core of rock music. From that moment on, rock music would never be the same. That song led to the MTV show Yo! MTV Raps, which really started to divide the rock audience.
Yes, at one time, rock music was color blind. The fact is that rock was based on black music, so rock stars were simply white guys trying to play black. Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and Keith Richards all credit black blues musicians as their primary influence. Even Elton John will tell you his influences were black blues musicians. Rock, therefore, was most authentic when it was performed by black musicians. The pioneers in this area would be Jimi Hendrix, and also George Clinton, who really was making rock music with a funky beat. Lenny Kravitz was one who never achieved his potential partly because he was black, but also because his music wasn't really distinctive.
In terms of radio, the explosion of FM in the 70s gave black artists an outlet for their music in a way that couldn't be done when music radio was only on AM. The multiplicity of stations in a town allowed radio stations to target specific audiences more narrowly. The exception was pop radio, which was still based on both white and black artists. But by the mid 70s, rock was largely a suburban white phenomenon, while black artists began to take their music in other directions.
But the absolute defining point for me was Aerosmith's duet with Run/DMC on Walk This Way in 1987. That song, more than any other, confused rock radio and MTV. Was it a rock song or a rap song? It was both, but for many rock fans, it led to the rise of rap in rock music, and a whole 'nother genre that took audiences away from the core of rock music. From that moment on, rock music would never be the same. That song led to the MTV show Yo! MTV Raps, which really started to divide the rock audience.
Well, skin color only factors in because the majority of artists in soul (as it was called in the 70's), funk or r&b are black (yes, there are exceptions...a few). No, the question was more in terms of the musical style. At one time all those styles were played on what was called "rock radio". At some point it changed.Neanderpaul said:
Lonely Summer said:
Lonely Summer,
They quit playing those artists when Rock music began to suck in the 90's. We still play them AOR style. AOR is still alive and growing in Cincinnati. We have 3 FM's there and are online and we are exploding. http://classxradio.com
Lonely Summer said:
Yeah, I do. The switch seemed to happen in Los Angeles in '77. Stevie Wonder's "Songs In The Key Of Life" was probably the last album by a black artist to get major play on KLOS, KMET or KROQ (this was before their modern rock approach).
KLOS was always the most hit-oriented of the three stations (playing Bill Withers, Aretha Franklin, some Tower of Power...I don't recall hearing George Benson, but L.A. had a 24/7 commercial jazz station). KMET tightened up, went very white and harder rocking and started to rack up huge ratings (by fall, 1978, they were #3 in the market). Very soon, album rock stations were going "modal"...focusing purely on rock.
R&B wasn't the only casualty...heritage artists like Van Morrison, Randy Newman and Joni Mitchell could no longer get play on AOR. It also locked a lot of stations out of newer artists that ended up being the core of 80s new wave...giving stations like KROQ (which went all "modern rock" in 1979) a huge opening.
Thanks for responding. I loved that original AOR format, such a wide range of music. Yeah, as you noted, anything considered "soft" or non-hard rock got dumped....a lot less singer/songwriter type stuff, acoustic guitars were out, soul music was out....nice to hear that Cincinnati is keeping the format alive, though.michael hagerty said:
I still occasionally hear Stevie Wonder's "Superstition" on the Rock here in Nashville.
Back in the '80s, the Eagle (aka Rock 103) in Memphis used to have a program called "the Rock and Soul Patrol" in which they played black artists, in particular those from Memphis. I specifically remember them playing Carla Thomas.
The earlier incarnation of Rock 103 (prior to the "Z-103" debacle of 1985-1986) used to play Michael Jackson's "Beat It," but that was primarily because of Eddie Van Halen's guitar solo on that one. The reborn Eagle/Rock 103 would never have touched that one!
Back in the '80s, the Eagle (aka Rock 103) in Memphis used to have a program called "the Rock and Soul Patrol" in which they played black artists, in particular those from Memphis. I specifically remember them playing Carla Thomas.
The earlier incarnation of Rock 103 (prior to the "Z-103" debacle of 1985-1986) used to play Michael Jackson's "Beat It," but that was primarily because of Eddie Van Halen's guitar solo on that one. The reborn Eagle/Rock 103 would never have touched that one!
M
mrh1960
Guest
There are radion stations that play predominantly black artists, so that is probably why playlists have changed. The artists mentioned above blended in with the formats back then, but playing hip hop and rap on a rock station today would be out of place...Lonely Summer said:
Neanderpaul said:
Neanderpaul, To most people it may not be revelant. The real question to the market is when is it NOT/Or better when WILL it NOT be revelant ANYMORE? The reality is that skin color has been and still is a factor of radio, they even market to your skin color so why is this a shock to you? ???
??? ??? :True. It was easy to go from Loggins and Messina to Marvin Gaye to Jethro Tull to Stevie Wonder; can't see today's rock and hip hop or rap mixing in most cases.mrh1960 said:
Lonely Summer said:
There was certainly an evolution, everything didn't change overnight, but a lot happened in the radio and records business in the mid-70s. White families were moving to the suburbs in droves, the oldest baby boomers now had jobs and could afford their own stereos and car stereos (causing an explosion in FM listening) and with a greater number of competitive stations on the dial (and FM signals reaching new suburbanites better than old AM city grade stations) niche formats sprung up. There was a great division of the audience based on race and psychographics. EW&F and Stevie Wonder didn't fit the corporate rock "culture." The big AOR formats (specifically Superstars) were geared to 12-24 year old suburban white rockers. The new urban stations were geared to young city black kids. Where just a few years earlier all these kids listened to the same CHR stations, now they had stations they could call their own.
XMportable said:Neanderpaul said:
Neanderpaul, To most people it may not be revelant. The real question to the market is when is it NOT/Or better when WILL it NOT be revelant ANYMORE? The reality is that skin color has been and still is a factor of radio, they even market to your skin color so why is this a shock to you? ???
The fact is, skin pigment is *only* relevant if you believe it to be. Any "black artist" that plays *rock* music worthy of airplay on a rock station, receives airplay. Hendrix has been on rock radio for over 40 years. Lenny Kravitz for over 20. Living Colour, Lajon Witherspoon, Fishbone, Bad Brains, Ben Harper, Phil Lynott etc. Now, a legitimate question might be "why are there so few 'black artists' in Rock today?"
I've never, in the 27 years I've done this, *ever* witnessed anyone consider, or exclude any record on any radio station I've ever worked for (and there have been some greats...programmed by greats), based upon skin pigment. In fact, I'm proud to say that I grew up listening to one of the greatest Rock stations in our industry (WBCN) And *they* even regularly employed "black" personalities on a rock station, in one of America's most racist cities...and it worked.
I'd be willing to bet that there's no discussion going on in the Urban/CHR/Hip Hop forum regarding "white artists" in the format.
Race is only an issue, to those who consider race an issue.
Neanderpaul said:
Good point. As I said in my post much earlier in this thread, the reason rock stations stopped playing black artists is so few of them make quality rock music. The reason is they've been raised in a world where black artists make a very different kind of music, and it's extremely popular. The minute Urban FM stations became as popular as the rock stations, that was the beginning of the end of black rock stars. Today, black kids don't look to Little Richard, Hendrix, or even Prince as influences. They look at Usher, Jay Z, and all the great urban entrepeneurs who've found how to combine music and business in a combination that has eclipsed traditional rock music. If I was a kid, regardless of race, why would I want to make rock music when I can be Usher?
Save for Teena Marie.Neanderpaul said:
I used to have an FM antenna on my home in rural west Tennessee about two hours from Memphis. I had it aimed toward Memphis so that I could pick up all the stations from Memphis, including the "urban" stations. It was my experience that the urban stations did not play any white artists unless that artist also happened to have a 12" single mix available of his latest hit. They seemed to be really big on playing those extended dance mixes. Even FM 100 (the top 40 station in Memphis) occasionally played a few of those extended mixes of the big hits of that time.
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