Where has the pro-IBOC contingent gone?

[SUPERCASTER]

With the current public dissatisfaction with radio congolmerates, resistance from government and the public to give free extra bandwidth to the HD cartel, an ongoing payola scandal, interference concerns with HD, lack of coverage or public service, HD Radio's music licensing problems, competing media, the existence of better system that costs less for the broadcasters, needs no special FCC approval, and does not cause interference (FMeXtra www.dreinc.com) and a dozen other reasons, the future of HD Radio is in Serius, XM, iPod, cell phone, WIMax, doubt.
After several years of failure, in spite of lies, hype, lobbying, and hundreds of millions spent on promotion, HD Radio can't sell more then a very few radios (mostly to early adopters with more money then good sense, or radio buffs and station engineers) then there is not much hope left for HD Radio.
When people say "HD Radio is a done deal", they mean HD Radio is finished.
There is almost zero public support or interest in HD Radio, and a great deal of opposition from quite a few groups.

 

[700WLW]

There are still 12,500 stations that will need to be convinced to spend the outrageous sums to convert to IBOC - good luck ! The J. P. Morgan study of HD Radio stated that it would not generate sufficient revenue, so what is the incentive for the remaining 12,500 stations to convert to IBOC ? These 1,000 stations can broadcast away, but only a handful are listening !

Nobody needs to be convinced of anything. First, there are 2000 stations either signed or on the air. These stations represent about 90% population coverage of the US, and probably even more ratings coverage. In other words, nearly every person will be able to hear HD, and nearly all the stations with significant audience will be in HD. Remeber, the top 10 markets alone are about 23% of the US population and nearly 33% of radio revenues... by the time you get to the 50th market, you cover 70% of America's population. And the decent signals in all those markets are HD already.

This is my favorite quote: "Nobody needs to be convinced of anything."

Your narrowly-minded focus/attitude is typically why HD Radio will fail - you think that with 1,200 stations broadcasting in IBOC (this only represents 1/10 of existing stations, with some that have already turned IBOC off), and with $200 million to spend on an ad campaign are magically going to make HD Radio/IBOC a success - you can't force consumers to buy outrageously priced HD Radio receivers, when they are totally apathetic. There are too many other exciting technologies (e.g., portable Internet Radio and Wireless Internet) for the public to get excited about, not the same old terrestrial radio - who are you kidding ! As usual, you forgot to mention that the majority of stations running IBOC are owned by the HD Radio Cartel - and remember that report by J. P. Morgan that HD Radio would not generate revenue, and that was submitted by Clear Channel to the FCC ! More fluff and BS from David - you are not convincing anyone of anything !

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Nobody needs to be convinced of anything. First, there are 2000 stations either signed or on the air. These stations represent about 90% population coverage of the US, and probably even more ratings coverage. In other words, nearly every person will be able to hear HD, and nearly all the stations with significant audience will be in HD. Remeber, the top 10 markets alone are about 23% of the US population and nearly 33% of radio revenues... by the time you get to the 50th market, you cover 70% of America's population. And the decent signals in all those markets are HD already.

Laughable...and completely ignorant of the fact that communication requires a sender AND a receiver. Without receivers in the marketplace...in quantity...all the HD transmitters in the world won't make one iota of difference. With 90% of the US population now able to receive HD, where are the receivers? Stacked to the rafters at Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack? Overflowing the warehouses at J&R, Amazon or Crutchfield? Wowing the customers at Tweeter?

How about "none of the above," due to lack of demand and the almost universally negative reviews of the BA Receptor?

 

[dbdigital]

There are still 12,500 stations that will need to be convinced to spend the outrageous sums to convert to IBOC - good luck ! The J. P. Morgan study of HD Radio stated that it would not generate sufficient revenue, so what is the incentive for the remaining 12,500 stations to convert to IBOC ? These 1,000 stations can broadcast away, but only a handful are listening !

Nobody needs to be convinced of anything. First, there are 2000 stations either signed or on the air. These stations represent about 90% population coverage of the US, and probably even more ratings coverage. In other words, nearly every person will be able to hear HD, and nearly all the stations with significant audience will be in HD. Remeber, the top 10 markets alone are about 23% of the US population and nearly 33% of radio revenues... by the time you get to the 50th market, you cover 70% of America's population. And the decent signals in all those markets are HD already.

This is my favorite quote: "Nobody needs to be convinced of anything."

Your narrowly-minded focus/attitude is typically why HD Radio will fail - you think that with 1,200 stations broadcasting in IBOC (this only represents 1/10 of existing stations, with some that have already turned IBOC off), and with $200 million to spend on an ad campaign are magically going to make HD Radio/IBOC a success - you can't force consumers to buy outrageously priced HD Radio receivers, when they are totally apathetic. There are too many other exciting technologies (e.g., portable Internet Radio and Wireless Internet) for the public to get excited about, not the same old terrestrial radio - who are you kidding ! As usual, you forgot to mention that the majority of stations running IBOC are owned by the HD Radio Cartel - and remember that report by J. P. Morgan that HD Radio would not generate revenue, and that was submitted by Clear Channel to the FCC ! More fluff and BS from David - you are not convincing anyone of anything !

The consumer is just getting clued in to the fact that they have to replace their analog TV with a HD monitor. And now media conglomorates who have heavily invested in iBiquity are telling the public that they have to replace the radios in their homes and cars with HD Radio as well? That just isn't going to fly.

And a key reason why electronics manufacturers have not been rolling out HD Radio hardware is that they see this as another potential Elcaset or DCC. Their caution speaks volumes about where HD Radio is heading.

db

 

[SUPERCASTER]

If we don't offer it and the consumer wants it, they'll just get it elsewhere. So far, there are 10,000,000 people who want what satellite radio offers. In the big picture, that's a small number of total radio users.

That is about 1,000 times more radios then HD has sold, in spite of HD radios being available for over 4 years. At that ratio of 1,000 to one, HD radio is bound to fail. Right Gringo?

 

[OldGringo]

Laughable...and completely ignorant of the fact that communication requires a sender AND a receiver. Without receivers in the marketplace...in quantity...all the HD transmitters in the world won't make one iota of difference. With 90% of the US population now able to receive HD, where are the receivers? Stacked to the rafters at Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack? Overflowing the warehouses at J&R, Amazon or Crutchfield? Wowing the customers at Tweeter?

How about "none of the above," due to lack of demand and the almost universally negative reviews of the BA Receptor?

The number of receivers is growing very fast... now around 30 in channels. In the next several years, they will come down in price, become more portable and more accepted.

FM stereo was introduced in 1960, and it took 3 years to get to 100 stations.

In the first year of CDs, there was no player under $500.

 

[Chuck]

In the first year of CDs, there was no player under $500.

True, but in the case of CD players, people were lined up to get them. They were an electronics dealer’s dream come true. You could sell them at list price and people were happy to pay it.

Do you really think HD that compelling to the consumer?

 

[700WLW]

Laughable...and completely ignorant of the fact that communication requires a sender AND a receiver. Without receivers in the marketplace...in quantity...all the HD transmitters in the world won't make one iota of difference. With 90% of the US population now able to receive HD, where are the receivers? Stacked to the rafters at Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack? Overflowing the warehouses at J&R, Amazon or Crutchfield? Wowing the customers at Tweeter?

How about "none of the above," due to lack of demand and the almost universally negative reviews of the BA Receptor?

The number of receivers is growing very fast... now around 30 in channels. In the next several years, they will come down in price, become more portable and more accepted.

FM stereo was introduced in 1960, and it took 3 years to get to 100 stations.

In the first year of CDs, there was no player under $500.

With CDs there was probably no competition, at that time. Now with HD Radio, there is Internet Radio (portable receivers are now in the marketplace, and due in automobiles by 2008), Wireless Internet, Satellite Radio, iRadio, and 800 million existing analog radios with an estimated 100 million still sold every year - quite a different situation ! You keep quoting the number of HD Radio stations and HD Radio receivers, but that doesn't matter, because there is VERY little public interest. The price of HD Radio receivers can never hit that magic number of $10 - $25, for traditional analog receivers, so it will never hit that critical price point. FM was totally different back then, but HD Radio is not much different from FM and gives worse audio quality (just look at the quality of analog versus digital cell phone audio, and that digital is unforgiving and just drops out completely and sounds tinny) and poorer coverage. Are you bored, because this is the same rhetoric that has been debated here, over-and-over.

 

[ElCheapo]

Laughable...and completely ignorant of the fact that communication requires a sender AND a receiver. Without receivers in the marketplace...in quantity...all the HD transmitters in the world won't make one iota of difference. With 90% of the US population now able to receive HD, where are the receivers? Stacked to the rafters at Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack? Overflowing the warehouses at J&R, Amazon or Crutchfield? Wowing the customers at Tweeter?

How about "none of the above," due to lack of demand and the almost universally negative reviews of the BA Receptor?

The number of receivers is growing very fast... now around 30 in channels. In the next several years, they will come down in price, become more portable and more accepted.

FM stereo was introduced in 1960, and it took 3 years to get to 100 stations.

In the first year of CDs, there was no player under $500.

With CDs there was probably no competition, at that time. Now with HD Radio, there is Internet Radio (portable receivers are now in the marketplace, and due in automobiles by 2008), Wireless Internet, Satellite Radio, iRadio, and 800 million existing analog radios with an estimated 100 million still sold every year - quite a different situation ! You keep quoting the number of HD Radio stations and HD Radio receivers, but that doesn't matter, because there is VERY little public interest. The price of HD Radio receivers can never hit that magic number of $10 - $25, for traditional analog receivers, so it will never hit that critical price point. FM was totally different back then, but HD Radio is not much different from FM and gives worse audio quality (just look at the quality of analog versus digital cell phone audio, and that digital is unforgiving and just drops out completely and sounds tinny) and poorer coverage. Are you bored, because this is the same rhetoric that has been debated here, over-and-over.

You are dumber than a box of hair! (Oh wait - that's the other guy...)

To say HD Radios will never drop to an acceptable price point is just plain ignorant and totally ignores every new innovation in consumer electronics EVER introduced.

 

[vsa]

ElCheapo wrote: To say HD Radios will never drop to an acceptable price point is just plain ignorant and totally ignores every new innovation in consumer electronics EVER introduced."

You are absolutely right. HD radios will one day drop to a very low price point - AS A FINAL CLEARANCE ITEM TO DUMP THE LAST REMAINING STOCK. ;D

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote: To say HD Radios will never drop to an acceptable price point is just plain ignorant and totally ignores every new innovation in consumer electronics EVER introduced."

You are absolutely right. HD radios will one day drop to a very low price point - AS A FINAL CLEARANCE ITEM TO DUMP THE LAST REMAINING STOCK. ;D

Sure - before they bring out the new models...

 

[SUPERCASTER]

ElCheapo wrote: To say HD Radios will never drop to an acceptable price point is just plain ignorant and totally ignores every new innovation in consumer electronics EVER introduced."

You are absolutely right. HD radios will one day drop to a very low price point - AS A FINAL CLEARANCE ITEM TO DUMP THE LAST REMAINING STOCK. ;D

Sure - before they bring out the new models...

The "new models", with new circuit boards, that obsolete the expensive HD Radios the HD suckers are buying now?
I expect to see HD Radios on closeout at the dollar store. That's the only way you can move this turkey.

http://www.mercradio.com/free.htm

One particularly pertinent conclusion from this study: HDRadio is in serious trouble. Most people will not take one even if you give it away for free.

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote: To say HD Radios will never drop to an acceptable price point is just plain ignorant and totally ignores every new innovation in consumer electronics EVER introduced."

You are absolutely right. HD radios will one day drop to a very low price point - AS A FINAL CLEARANCE ITEM TO DUMP THE LAST REMAINING STOCK. ;D

Sure - before they bring out the new models...

The "new models", with new circuit boards, that obsolete the expensive HD Radios the HD suckers are buying now?
I expect to see HD Radios on closeout at the dollar store. That's the only way you can move this turkey.

http://www.mercradio.com/free.htm

One particularly pertinent conclusion from this study: HDRadio is in serious trouble. Most people will not take one even if you give it away for free.

If you were happy with the performance of any piece of gear, and someone offered you a new one without explaining any of its benefits, would you see any reason to take it?

I know Apple users who would supposedly not take a free PC if it was offered to them.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

If you were happy with the performance of any piece of gear, and someone offered you a new one without explaining any of its benefits, would you see any reason to take it?

The benefits were explained: "A new kind of radio that will offer all the stations you know now plus many more with better quality sound. Many of the new stations will be commercial-free."

Please watch the presentation.

 

[700WLW]

If you were happy with the performance of any piece of gear, and someone offered you a new one without explaining any of its benefits, would you see any reason to take it?

The benefits were explained: "A new kind of radio that will offer all the stations you know now plus many more with better quality sound. Many of the new stations will be commercial-free."

Please watch the presentation.

Compressed low-bitrate digital streams can never duplicate the quality of analog, and broadcasters already have plans to add commercials to the HD channels - more false claims !

 

[Chuck]

Compressed low-bitrate digital streams can never duplicate the quality of analog, and broadcasters already have plans to add commercials to the HD channels - more false claims !

At the moment, the FCC considers IBOC to be an experimental service. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is any FCC authorized "Experimental Service" or "Experimental Broadcast" must be non-commercial in nature. Experimental radio stations are in the same boat as Ham Radio. Commercial use is strictly prohibited.

I'm just thinking out loud here, so bear with me. If this is so, and I believe it is, then HD-2 and HD-3 broadcasts, by law, must be non-commercial. That would explain all the fervor (besides good marketing) for the non-commercial aspect of it. The have to be. Forget the fact that only a handful of people are listening and it is hard to sell spots with no audience.

These channels will have to remain non-commercial until the FCC gives final authorization or issues a waiver, either on an individual or a blanket basis. Has anyone seen or heard of such a waiver? Got a link to the text on the FCC Web Site? If what I’m thinking is so, then it is possible that stations that are reportedly running commercials on their HD aux channels are in violation of FCC regulations. Hmmm...

Was a blanket waiver issued to allow the primary HD channel to simulcast the analog channel, commercials and all? I think there was. Anyone know for sure? If none was granted then there is a bigger problem, since those primary channels are also experimental at this point.

I'm sure this has been well covered by some highly paid attorneys, but it is an intriguing thought. I'm going away now to get my asbestos underwear put on, since I suspect the flames will be intense... ;D

 

[700WLW]

I just remember someone mentioning, and I also read, that there is an 18-month "gentleman's agreement" between stations not to add advertising to the HD Channels, yet. Also, a year-old article mentioned that Clear Channel was looking into adding advertising. With the J. P. Morgan report, that stated HD Radio would not generate sufficient revenue, it is bound to happen...

 

[Chuck]

I just remember someone mentioning, and I also read, that there is an 18-month "gentleman's agreement" between stations not to add advertising to the HD Channels, yet. Also, a year-old article mentioned that Clear Channel was looking into adding advertising. With the J. P. Morgan report, that stated HD Radio would not generate sufficient revenue, it is bound to happen...

Oh, there is no doubt that there will be commercials. At first, they will be sold as part of a package, bundled with spots on existing analog channels. The question is when, and more importantly, when is it legal to do so?