Which CC station is going to flip?

[Shoot From Hip]

I apologize to Sr Eduardo for the prejudiced tone of my remarks but as a member of the non-hispanic Engish speaking minority, you may perhaps understand my frustration over the diminshment of English language radio in Los Angeles. But of course, as DE would be the first to admit, it's all about the $$$

If you listen to 10 different English language stations, there's still 30 others in LA you're not listening to. So I think it's safe to say you don't have to worry about running out of options. Last time I checked, Spanish language listening accounts for something under 30% of the ratings, and gets only about half that much of the local revenue. THAT'S the reason big companies are looking to Spanish radio...it's a growth business where other formats are not.

 

[davideduardo]

If you listen to 10 different English language stations, there's still 30 others in LA you're not listening to. So I think it's safe to say you don't have to worry about running out of options. Last time I checked, Spanish language listening accounts for something under 30% of the ratings, and gets only about half that much of the local revenue. THAT'S the reason big companies are looking to Spanish radio...it's a growth business where other formats are not.

Your point is valid that Spanish language radio is undersold, but as the Hispanic market grows in size and inclome, it will, as in markets like Miami and Houston, achieve parity and higher income, while English radio is declining.

Spanish langauge radio has about 25% to 26% of the shares, and about 21% of the revenues. KThis year may see parity on share vs. revenue, as general market is off and the Spanish language stations are up.

 

[radioman921]

Excuse me for sounding so bigoted, but how many Spanish stations do you people need? :

You are right, that sounds racist and bigoted, particularly the "you people" part.

And any listener group will get as many stations as advertiser interest will support. Since Hispanics are over 50% of the market, 18-34 and about 45% of 18-49, do the math.

DE I just love it when some folks who don't understand that Spanish is not a format, and if there are 30 English stations is that too many? Some people......Thanks for taking the high road.

 

[radioresearcher]

Of course with the absolutely meteoric stunning success of XTRA-AM 600 and the absolutely meteroric stunning success of FM "La Pantera" 105.7 here in San Diego when they flipped to "en espagnol," proves just because you try to program to a dominant demographic does not mean an overnight success. There is a thing called "saturation" which the radio (and TV) broadcast industry just does not seem to "get."

XETRA 690 (I presume you did not mean they had taken over KOGO's channel!) is targeted at LA, not SD. The studio is in Burbank, and most of the talent has LA experience. However, the programming is wretched and unneeded as there are local stations with decent signals covering LA with news and talk in Spanish. In other words, it is failing because it is bad, not because of saturation.

Similarly, the FM offered nothing that established stations did not offer, and put on a morning talent on the US Mexican border who is Honduran; that same show was cancelled on 20 of his 24 affiliates in 2006 because it was not working. Again, a bad station.

The market has around 15 signals in Spanish; only 6 or 7 show in the ratings. The bad stations are "self-limiting" since they are not getting any listening in the US.

In this case, the situation has nothing to do with "saturation" but with good programming vs. bad. Saturation occurs when you have 6 country shares in a market and three staitons; three good stations will each get about 2, and none will get many buys as they are below the point of interest for ad agencies. There is one station, at least, too many. Saturation.

In the case of Spanish language programming, recognize that Spanish is a language, not a format. There are about 12 to 14 Spanish language shares in SD, divided among a variety of formats and sharing patterns. the good stations in each format will get good shares, the bad ones will not.

David:

A number of my English language compadres don't understand that there are different formats - just like there are in English. And, even within the formats, there are nuances - just like in English.

Not that this is perfect, but couldn't we say:

KLVE=KOST
KSSE=KYSR (or maybe KIIS)
KXOL=KPWR
KBUE=KROQ

Maybe you could explain how KLYY, KLAX and KSCA differentiate to the rest of the group here.

 

[davideduardo]

KLVE=KOST
KSSE=KYSR (or maybe KIIS)
KXOL=KPWR
KBUE=KROQ

Maybe you could explain how KLYY, KLAX and KSCA differentiate to the rest of the group here.

KLYY is dance. KLAX, KBUE and KSCA are the same, but each takes a different road. KSCA is talk 4 to 11 AM and 3 to 7 PM, so is more like KLSX. All three musically aare like country. KBUE is lke the by-gone Outlaw Country in Texas... hard core musically, and much younger.

KRCD is Jack, but wth personalities. KLYY is probably closest to Star as you say. KWKW is KLAC, but with soccer instead of basketbal. KTNQ is KFI. KLTX is The Fish. KBLA is teaching and preaching in Spanish. KHJ is Country gold.

There are more, different formats across Latin America than there are in the US.

 

[radioresearcher]

KLVE=KOST
KSSE=KYSR (or maybe KIIS)
KXOL=KPWR
KBUE=KROQ

Maybe you could explain how KLYY, KLAX and KSCA differentiate to the rest of the group here.

KLYY is dance. KLAX, KBUE and KSCA are the same, but each takes a different road. KSCA is talk 4 to 11 AM and 3 to 7 PM, so is more like KLSX. All three musically aare like country. KBUE is lke the by-gone Outlaw Country in Texas... hard core musically, and much younger.

KRCD is Jack, but wth personalities. KLYY is probably closest to Star as you say. KWKW is KLAC, but with soccer instead of basketbal. KTNQ is KFI. KLTX is The Fish. KBLA is teaching and preaching in Spanish. KHJ is Country gold.

There are more, different formats across Latin America than there are in the US.

David:

Regional seems to skew slightly more male than Country.

I just figured by explaining this, people might understand that Spanish IS a language and not a format.

 

[davideduardo]

David:

Regional seems to skew slightly more male than Country.

I just figured by explaining this, people might understand that Spanish IS a language and not a format.

Yeah, regional tends to be harder core, but part is the "stern-like" nature of regional morning shows. This is why the Recuerdo-like stations skew female... the alternative without the edge.

And you are very much right... there are many formats, and if you take the formats from Mexico and the ones unique to other places, there are many more than in the US. Colombia, for example, has three different tropical formats!

 

[sdwulfdawg]

Your point is valid that Spanish language radio is undersold, but as the Hispanic market grows in size and inclome, it will, as in markets like Miami and Houston, achieve parity and higher income, while English radio is declining.

Of course, with the apparent forthcoming crackdown on illegals which seems to be having SoCal employers in a big tizzy perhaps the growth could be stunted. Plus there are the Mexicans who don't speak/understand Spanish.

 

[davideduardo]

Of course, with the apparent forthcoming crackdown on illegals which seems to be having SoCal employers in a big tizzy perhaps the growth could be stunted. Plus there are the Mexicans who don't speak/understand Spanish.

As a point of logic, illegals neither fill in diaries nor do they carry (or "will they carry") PPM's as a rule. Illegals keep below the radar, and participating in a survey requires revealing address, name, members of household, etc., and is not very likely.

And unless Claritas and the Cenus updates the Claritas data, in part, comes from, revise downwards the population figures, enforcement activities will have little ratings impact.

The fact is that over 60% of LA Hispanics are Spanish dominant. Add to that the fact that bilinguals, who are in 95% of the cases, more Spanish dominant, are considered "English dominant" and you have a rich base for Spanish radio for the next 20 to 30 years at least.

 

[EasyBakeOven]

I'm not clear as to why the modern rockers would benefit from PPM?

PPM is a new technology and the early adapter techies are more apt to like Alternative stations. They are also the kind of people who don’t mind participating in something new where a monitoring device is required. With the old diary method, Arbitorn had a problems finding enough higher income P18-24 to participate. Adding to that, many Alternative listeners are not likely to have a land line phone number, making it harder to find participants. This had been the excuse for Alternative stations to be trending downwards, but now Arbitron has been working hard to locate cell phone only users to wear the PPM device. The end result is huge results in Philly (#1, P18-34) and Houston #1, P12+).

As for CC trying Alternative in L.A. I wouldn’t rule it out, given their success story in Philly (probably the best Alternative numbers in the history of the market) and we can’t forget that CC was partly responsible for the launch of Indie 103.1 (as an LMA, sort of).

 

[calguy]

Okay, back on topic, my money is on KBIG. The question is what format? Could CC be thinking about a FRESH style format?
While it could hurt KOST, it would allow them to blow up KBIG without much more than a re-imaging and music change.
Then they could go in a little different direction with STAR to differentiate it from KBIG. There was in an earlier post talk of
going after KROQ and this would be perfect for STAR to do. Then again, KBIG has a better signal that could better compete with KROQ
making STAR the choice to "Freshen" up. STAR might then inpact KOST, but would fit into the female audience that CC has in LA.

 

[RadioFanBoy]

Could CC be thinking about a FRESH style format?
While it could hurt KOST, it would allow them to blow up KBIG without much more than a re-imaging and music change.

And give me just one logical reason why Clear Channel would try and hurt their biggest FM cash cow, by FRESHening up KBIG.

 

[jrplbg]

And give me just one logical reason why Clear Channel would try and hurt their biggest FM cash cow, by FRESHening up KBIG.

If what I'm hearing is true, it's not such a big cash cow as it once was. I've heard talk of some budgets being missed.

 

[jimmythebassett]

How would this format do in LA?

www.yesfm.info

 

[alex4490]

Why not a KTU (103.5)-type radio station in New York? Does L.A even have a Dance station?

Or is that a type of station similar your talking about in replace of KBIG?

 

[jimmythebassett]

It's a white-female adult station that blends the 80's and 90's...not dance, but there are dance songs...it's a white MOVIN.

 

[davideduardo]

PPM is a new technology and the early adapter techies are more apt to like Alternative stations. They are also the kind of people who don’t mind participating in something new where a monitoring device is required.

PPMs are placed by household, not by the individual. In fact, noncompliance by one family member will cause the whole family to be taken off the panel. While there are family units that are only in the 18-34 demo, the panel is recruited to be totally proportional to the market, so there should be no moments when the panel is not near perfect in proportionality. So there are going to be some trendsetters, but most of the sample will not be in that particular group.

With the old diary method, Arbitorn had a problems finding enough higher income P18-24 to participate.

They did not have trouble finding 18-34's (Socioeconomic is not the issue... it is the 18-34 lifestyle, mostly with males) but did have trouble recruiting them and getting diaries back. So they increased incentives and overrecruited to compensate, and most sample reports show that the quotas were always pretty close and required minimal weighting.

Adding to that, many Alternative listeners are not likely to have a land line phone number, making it harder to find participants. This had been the excuse for Alternative stations to be trending downwards, but now Arbitron has been working hard to locate cell phone only users to wear the PPM device. The end result is huge results in Philly (#1, P18-34) and Houston #1, P12+).

I do not believe that cellular recruiting is being done yet, but will check the desccription of methodology when I get back home.

As for CC trying Alternative in L.A. I wouldn’t rule it out, given their success story in Philly (probably the best Alternative numbers in the history of the market) and we can’t forget that CC was partly responsible for the launch of Indie 103.1 (as an LMA, sort of).

It makes sense, although we are just batting a rumor around... there is certainly no confirmation from clear that a move is on.

 

[calguy]

Could CC be thinking about a FRESH style format?
While it could hurt KOST, it would allow them to blow up KBIG without much more than a re-imaging and music change.

And give me just one logical reason why Clear Channel would try and hurt their biggest FM cash cow, by FRESHening up KBIG.

Well I have no good reason other than trumping CBS before they or someone else tries the FRESH format here. Personally I think they could adjust STAR to be more FRESH-like without a lot of effort. I really think that KBIG has been going in the wrong direction. I would blow-up Delilah and go back towards more rhythmic music than they're currently playing, but it's only an opinion. KBIG may make decent money, but it sounds like it has multiple personality disorder.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

It's been the most dysfunctional station in the market for several years, but wouldn't 'blowing it up' give MOVIN' a shot in the arm, which is probably the last thing CC would want?

 

[calguy]

It's been the most dysfunctional station in the market for several years, but wouldn't 'blowing it up' give MOVIN' a shot in the arm, which is probably the last thing CC would want?

I would agree with you, but in a way they've already started to do that by adding more mainstream AC oldies and the almost unlistenable Delilah.