Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?

[allenv]

The good old days when the jock actually had a certain amount of say so over what they played..Sadly that is most often not the case today.
Part of being a good jock was knowing your music,your audience and your station formatics and being to mesh all together in a professional manner and be entertaining. In other words having some confidence and trust in your airstaff.

 

[davideduardo]

Here's another question regarding classic hits stations: How many years should the format span?

A lot has to do with the competitive array.

The consensus might say that a classic hits station is late 60's (67 or so) into the early 80's.

Keep in mind that many 60's songs... at least those from around '64 or '65 on, got a lot of play into the 70's and even 80's as gold cuts on CHRs some more contemporary AC stations. So those songs may be quite relevant to a person well inside the 25-54 demos.

And speaking of demos, outside the top 50 markets, most business is local direct so having a big 55+ component to the audience is not negative.

So if direct competition for the demo you seek is not too strong, you may want to make the median age of the music centered below 1975.

The ethnicity of the market may also affect, not just in areas like rhythmic tunes, but also because the major ethnic groups tend to be younger on average than the non-Hispanic white community. In fact, it's important to look at age distribution of potential listeners as well as ethnicity; this may make era coverage easier to identify.

In some markets, classic hits stations share a lot with country. In others it is more swung towards sharing with AC. You have to figure who you are going to share with and how memorable you can make your format so that those who use it as a P2 will remember to write it down... all those 50+ markets are diary markets.

 

[davideduardo]

The good old days when the jock actually had a certain amount of say so over what they played..Sadly that is most often not the case today.

Those "good old days" ended, in most markets, with the indictment of Alan Freed. Stations realized they ran the risk of losing the license if the playlist were not monitored and supervised.

FM had its free form progressive stations, but those were short-lived because AOR and Superstars blew most of those stations away in short order.

 

[allenv]

This cat would argue with a cardboard cutout of the Pope!!! :

 

[davideduardo]

This cat would argue with a cardboard cutout of the Pope!!! :

Contrasting reality with something imported from a parallel universe is not arguing... it's just presenting facts versus wishes.

 

[davideduardo]

The country station in Boston, WKLB, has had a classic country show in another graveyard slot, 8 to noon Sundays, for nearly as long. Supposedly, it's made WKLB (which does very well for a country station in the Northeast anyway) No. 1 overall during that daypart in several books over the years.

That's kind of unusual since Boston has been on PPM for something like 4 years and Saturday mornings and middays have fairly comparable PURs to those of 6A-7P on weekdays.

I wonder if the show started (and did very well) under the diary, and did well due to the now well understood rounding up of listening spans when memory is half of what is being measured... and when the PPM came to town they were hesitant to blow off the show.

I've personally seen some cases of well performing specialty shows that tanked in the PPM. Generally in these cases, the show was a strong concept but did not really rack up the TSL that the diary showed... perhaps due to less than perfect execution.

Do you have any idea how the show is doing post-diary?

But what you said about DRC-FM holds true here: nobody who listens to the station M-F is interested in hearing a bunch of old Charley Pride and Crystal Gayle songs, so all the show does is add to the cume.

And I'd guess it does placate a group of listeners who feel "their music" is neglected.

 

[CTListener]

The country station in Boston, WKLB, has had a classic country show in another graveyard slot, 8 to noon Sundays, for nearly as long. Supposedly, it's made WKLB (which does very well for a country station in the Northeast anyway) No. 1 overall during that daypart in several books over the years.

That's kind of unusual since Boston has been on PPM for something like 4 years and Saturday mornings and middays have fairly comparable PURs to those of 6A-7P on weekdays.

I wonder if the show started (and did very well) under the diary, and did well due to the now well understood rounding up of listening spans when memory is half of what is being measured... and when the PPM came to town they were hesitant to blow off the show.

I've personally seen some cases of well performing specialty shows that tanked in the PPM. Generally in these cases, the show was a strong concept but did not really rack up the TSL that the diary showed... perhaps due to less than perfect execution.

Do you have any idea how the show is doing post-diary?

First, as I've highlighted, it's a Sunday show, not a Saturday. And all the on-air bragging they did about the ratings was before PPM. My interest in country music has diminished over the past decade and I haven't listened to the show much recently, but the times I have listened there's been no mention of the numbers.

 

[firepoint525]

I love the Saturday evening all-request programs! 8) Our local AC actually dropped Delilah and replaced her with Tom Kent! (Well, on the weekends, anyway) I don't know how these nationwide programs ever accommodate all their listeners and the requests that they inevitably get from their listeners, and I can say that he does indeed play a lot of the same songs week in and week out, but at the same time, it is the only time all week that I can hear some of these, and his presentation is a lot better than the boring same old, same old from the rest of the week. And definitely an improvement over the boring DUH-lilah!

 

[CTListener]

I love the Saturday evening all-request programs! 8) Our local AC actually dropped Delilah and replaced her with Tom Kent! (Well, on the weekends, anyway) I don't know how these nationwide programs ever accommodate all their listeners and the requests that they inevitably get from their listeners, and I can say that he does indeed play a lot of the same songs week in and week out, but at the same time, it is the only time all week that I can hear some of these, and his presentation is a lot better than the boring same old, same old from the rest of the week. And definitely an improvement over the boring DUH-lilah!

DRC-FM replaced a local (but voicetracked) 7-12 weeknight shift with Kent a couple of years ago. He plays a couple of semi-deep oldies each show along with several songs that are no longer on the DRC playlist. Sunday 7-12 is Charlie Tuna's syndicated '70s show from LA -- again, mostly same-old-same-old but an occasional surprise makes it a decent listen.

 

[willdav713]

I love the Saturday evening all-request programs! 8) Our local AC actually dropped Delilah and replaced her with Tom Kent! (Well, on the weekends, anyway) I don't know how these nationwide programs ever accommodate all their listeners and the requests that they inevitably get from their listeners, and I can say that he does indeed play a lot of the same songs week in and week out, but at the same time, it is the only time all week that I can hear some of these, and his presentation is a lot better than the boring same old, same old from the rest of the week. And definitely an improvement over the boring DUH-lilah!

DRC-FM replaced a local (but voicetracked) 7-12 weeknight shift with Kent a couple of years ago. He plays a couple of semi-deep oldies each show along with several songs that are no longer on the DRC playlist. Sunday 7-12 is Charlie Tuna's syndicated '70s show from LA -- again, mostly same-old-same-old but an occasional surprise makes it a decent listen.

I wish KONO would drop Charlie Tuna's '70s show and replace it with Tom Kent's My 70's.

Austin's KXBT is way better than KONO.

At least I hear "Incense and Peppermints" by "Strawberry Alarm Clock" even in the afternoon drive. I just wish the both of them would go ONE DAY without an Eagles song.

 

[CTListener]

I love the Saturday evening all-request programs! 8) Our local AC actually dropped Delilah and replaced her with Tom Kent! (Well, on the weekends, anyway) I don't know how these nationwide programs ever accommodate all their listeners and the requests that they inevitably get from their listeners, and I can say that he does indeed play a lot of the same songs week in and week out, but at the same time, it is the only time all week that I can hear some of these, and his presentation is a lot better than the boring same old, same old from the rest of the week. And definitely an improvement over the boring DUH-lilah!

DRC-FM replaced a local (but voicetracked) 7-12 weeknight shift with Kent a couple of years ago. He plays a couple of semi-deep oldies each show along with several songs that are no longer on the DRC playlist. Sunday 7-12 is Charlie Tuna's syndicated '70s show from LA -- again, mostly same-old-same-old but an occasional surprise makes it a decent listen.

I wish KONO would drop Charlie Tuna's '70s show and replace it with Tom Kent's My 70's.

Austin's KXBT is way better than KONO.

At least I hear "Incense and Peppermints" by "Strawberry Alarm Clock" even in the afternoon drive. I just wish the both of them would go ONE DAY without an Eagles song.

Here are all the '60s titles DRC played between noon and 6 this afternoon: "(I Know) I'm Losing You," "All You Need Is Love," "Respect," "Good Vibrations," "Midnight Confessions," "Somebody to Love," "Mony Mony." That's it, seven in six hours. The end is near. And yes, "Incense and Peppermints" is one of the lucky two dozen or so still OK'd for airplay.

 

[willdav713]

I love the Saturday evening all-request programs! 8) Our local AC actually dropped Delilah and replaced her with Tom Kent! (Well, on the weekends, anyway) I don't know how these nationwide programs ever accommodate all their listeners and the requests that they inevitably get from their listeners, and I can say that he does indeed play a lot of the same songs week in and week out, but at the same time, it is the only time all week that I can hear some of these, and his presentation is a lot better than the boring same old, same old from the rest of the week. And definitely an improvement over the boring DUH-lilah!

DRC-FM replaced a local (but voicetracked) 7-12 weeknight shift with Kent a couple of years ago. He plays a couple of semi-deep oldies each show along with several songs that are no longer on the DRC playlist. Sunday 7-12 is Charlie Tuna's syndicated '70s show from LA -- again, mostly same-old-same-old but an occasional surprise makes it a decent listen.

I wish KONO would drop Charlie Tuna's '70s show and replace it with Tom Kent's My 70's.

Austin's KXBT is way better than KONO.

At least I hear "Incense and Peppermints" by "Strawberry Alarm Clock" even in the afternoon drive. I just wish the both of them would go ONE DAY without an Eagles song.

Here are all the '60s titles DRC played between noon and 6 this afternoon: "(I Know) I'm Losing You," "All You Need Is Love," "Respect," "Good Vibrations," "Midnight Confessions," "Somebody to Love," "Mony Mony." That's it, seven in six hours. The end is near. And yes, "Incense and Peppermints" is one of the lucky two dozen or so still OK'd for airplay.

Papa Was A Rolling Stone by the Temptations, which I believe came out in 1970 along with Sugarloaf's Green Eyed Lady all ignored by KONO, not by KXBT.

Animal's "We Got to Get Out Of This Place" also ignored by KONO. One of my favorite songs.
Then you have "I'm not your stepping stone" by the Monkees. One of the 1st 45's I played as a kid in the 80's on my Fisher Price turntable. The other side had "I'm A Believer" And watched them on Nick At Nite which they replaced the Monkees with Classic SNL a year later.

I remember they used the Animal's "We Got to Get Out of This Place" in a LaserDisc ad for Pioneer around 1990-91.

 

[unitron]

All this so called research makes rocket science out of something that isn't..Use the charts as your reference.

...

There is really no perfect answer to this but I will say in almost 30 years of radio the biggest compliant I hear is" I'm tired of hearing the same songs over and over"

Those comments usually come when a station plays songs that shouldn't be played at all...

So the ones in heaviest rotation are the ones that they shouldn't ever play?

 

[CTListener]

All this so called research makes rocket science out of something that isn't..Use the charts as your reference.

...

There is really no perfect answer to this but I will say in almost 30 years of radio the biggest compliant I hear is" I'm tired of hearing the same songs over and over"

Those comments usually come when a station plays songs that shouldn't be played at all...

So the ones in heaviest rotation are the ones that they shouldn't ever play?

I think he's saying that while you may receive occasional calls about playing "Brown Eyed Girl" every day for the past 15 years, most of your complaints actually come from listeners who are hearing some low-testing hit that you refuse to drop from the playlist.

 

[oldies76]

Papa Was A Rolling Stone by the Temptations, which I believe came out in 1970

1972..

 

[oldies76]

So the ones in heaviest rotation are the ones that they shouldn't ever play?

I guess people will flood the studio lines and complain in droves if "Afternoon Delight" is played twice in 6 months over "Take it Easy" by the Eagles being played 10 times in a week!!

Something's seriously wrong here.

All songs can be played, they just to be managed correctly.

 

[allenv]

Totally agree oldies76...

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

So the ones in heaviest rotation are the ones that they shouldn't ever play?

I guess people will flood the studio lines and complain in droves if "Afternoon Delight" is played twice in 6 months over "Take it Easy" by the Eagles being played 10 times in a week!!

Something's seriously wrong here.

All songs can be played, they just to be managed correctly.

AMEN!!!!

 

[davideduardo]

Those comments usually come when a station plays songs that shouldn't be played at all...

So the ones in heaviest rotation are the ones that they shouldn't ever play?

Again, con brio: Repetition complaints from listeners of the sort "they repeat the same songs over and over" really mean "they play songs I don't like sometimes".

The songs listeners to gold based formats don't like are those that were hits once upon a time, but are no longer of interest to listeners. Manilow, 1910 Fruitgum Company, etc., etc., are examples of artists who had hits of which none are today useful.

As mentioned, stations in the top 48 markets can acquire MediaMonitors access and look at the average performance of metered persons over many plays of a song. If a song consistently drives people away, it should not be played. If Afternoon Delight and Brown Eyed Girl showed bad tune out, they would be gone. If they don't, and they score well in music tests, they will be played as much as always.

 

[davideduardo]

I guess people will flood the studio lines and complain in droves if "Afternoon Delight" is played twice in 6 months over "Take it Easy" by the Eagles being played 10 times in a week!!

Very, very, very, very, very, very few listeners in the older demos (35+) will ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever call a radio station.

In my 53 years in radio, I've never taken or heard of a call from a listener asking for a station to stop playing a song.

That is why stations look at listener behaviour, not what listeners say.

All songs can be played, they just to be managed correctly.

All songs can not be played. In the classic hits arena, there are thousands and thousands of songs that will cause tune-out, and only a number in the high hundreds of songs that can be played that will please most listeners and cause very little if any tune out.

As mentioned, those of us with access can see the immediate negative effect of playing bad songs... and we can also see that the good ones (as tiring as you may find them) retain listeners.

Keep in mind that spontaneous tune out is usually limited to in-car listening, which for music stations is only about a third of all listening time. In other locations, quick response is harder as most radios at home and at work do not have buttons or are not conveniently located for quick action. The problem, then, is to avoid songs that are negative as people will simply stop listening at all.